Low sulphur deisel not allowed

[monton]

I just got back from a road trip around washington state and came across a few deisel pumps marked "low sulphur" that said that they could not be used in vehicles of 2007 or newer. What is the deal with this? Are new deisel engines only allowed to use the new deisel that is coming out? It said it can seriously damage these engines... so what do they use now?

I was just a little confused, it seems to be a bit of a catch 22 if you own a brand new deisel.

 

[roscoFJ73]

So what will 2007 diesels use then? Maybe there is a new ultra clean diesel on the way for next year.

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

October of this year all diesel in the US will be Ultra Low Sulphur diesel. I dont know what's up with what you saw. The refineries will be adding a lubrication compound that will make the ULSD even MORE lubricating than the old fuel.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Believe it or not GM in their infinite wisdom have designed the newer diesels to NOT run on bio-diesel!!!!

 

[monton]

Yeah, but what's the deal with this current deisel actually being able to harm you engine? Deisel engines can practically run on tar (don't worry, I wouldn't actually do this), so why not regular deisel?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Yeah, but what's the deal with this current deisel actually being able to harm you engine? Deisel engines can practically run on tar (don't worry, I wouldn't actually do this), so why not regular deisel?

That's a question for the engineers at GM but that is what I have heard from several sources!

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Yeah, but what's the deal with this current deisel actually being able to harm you engine? Deisel engines can practically run on tar (don't worry, I wouldn't actually do this), so why not regular deisel?

It's got to be BUNK. I run my 2001 VW TDI on B99, my 1987 Toyota 2L on B99, (I WILL) my 1994 1HZ on B99, and my brothers 2002 Dodge on B99. No problems anywhere.


TB

 

[colin 4]

October of this year all diesel in the US will be Ultra Low Sulphur diesel. I dont know what's up with what you saw. The refineries will be adding a lubrication compound that will make the ULSD even MORE lubricating than the old fuel.

does anybody happen to know if this is true of the ultra low being released in Canada? If it is do you guys still plan to run conditioner cause that stuff isn't cheap. I talked to a guy who owns a Husky station, here in Alberta they call their diesel "diesel Max" , and he said that certain companies like husky put additives in their fuel and that's why all the truckers go there even though it costs more. He said places like flying J are selling just a base fuel. If that's the case won't it continue that with ultra low sulphur the really cheap diesel might not have much for lubricity? annnnd, what is the new compound?

 

[108Cruz]

I have read somewhere on on a VW Tdi forum that the ULSD will also be available in Canada at the same time ( Oct. 06 ). It also stated that in Canada the refineries are ahead of the US in switching over their equipment etc. to refine the ULSD.

The Fed's in the US also gave the refineries there until 2010 to comply fully for ULSD. Until then , they can produce a certain percentage of ULSD and a certain amount of reg. LSD. They do not require the gas stations to be 100% ULSD in the fall. Apparently the pumps will have labels on them advising customers of this. The cost of the ULSD is suppose to be a few cents more per gallon and the regular LSD will be cheaper.( people will most likly buy the cheaper diesel until the availibility runs out ))If this is the same in Canada, I'm not sure.

 

[Technikev]

ULSD will be available in Canada this fall. Some places will also sell regular LSD as well. This is from my mom who is an employee of an Esso bulk plant. She did not elaborate on the costs and retail pricing of this fuel, however.

The additional lubricants in ULSD are added at the refinery. The hydrotreating process to reduce the sulfur also reduces the lubricating properties of the fuel, thus the addition of the lubricants.

-kevin

 

[chet]

the pumps you saw is the current low sulphur diesel. the new 2007''s will run on ultra low sulphur diesel only to comply with the emmisions regs. I'm sure they will run on LSD but it may run kinda crappy.

 

[crushers]

If it is do you guys still plan to run conditioner cause that stuff isn't cheap. QUOTE]
i do and recommend it to my customers, cheap insurance...
if you find the conditioner too expensive then my recommendation is to go back to drving a gasser. diesels are not cheap to fix should something go wrong.
i have told people for years that the fuel economy savings of diesels over gassers are quickly offset by repair bills.
same with doing diesel swaps, you can buy a LOT of fuel for the cost of a decent swap.

 

[Rusty]

Yeah, but what's the deal with this current deisel actually being able to harm you engine? Deisel engines can practically run on tar (don't worry, I wouldn't actually do this), so why not regular deisel?

Tar not recommended, jet fuel, kerosene, or stove maybe. Actually jet grade A or A1 works fine, when I used to work at an airport we fuelled the trucks with jet A. It is used to fuel diesels up north and in very cold climates where the paraffin in diesel starts to get waxy and gel. The problem is that it doesn’t have the same lubricating qualities and can wear out your injection pump. Adding a little ATF to it prevents this.

I now work for a major oil company, at a refinery, diesel comes off a crude oil fractional distillation column no where near tar. Tar is way more viscous and comes off at the bottom of the column and has to be heated to keep it free flowing, it would be rough on the fuel system for sure!

Currently refineries are producing LSD (low sulphur diesel… no not the drug ) federal regulations require that oil companies start producing ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) which obviously contains far less sulphur; less than or equal to 15 parts per million.

The trouble is if you don’t get the suphur out of the fuel it ends up coming out the tailpipe as sulphur or sulphur dioxide. SO2 is produced when sulphur burns in the catalytic converters of gas powered vehicles, this it turn causes acid rain when the SO2 reacts with sunlight and water in the atmosphere. Canada, and the US I believe, are currently producing LSG (low sulphur gas). The sulphur in diesel adds to the particulate problem too.

The production of these fuels is more costly since plants within the refinery need to be modified or built for further hydrotreating. The refinery that I work at is currently constructing an addition to our diesel hydrotreater to make ULSD.

ULSD should be hitting the pumps this fall, September/October in Canada and the US.

 

[monton]

I was being facetious about the tar...

 

[PressOn]

Just a short addition to Rusty's post, in the diesel engine, sulfur is also a big factor in soot production in addition to the sulfur dioxide found in acid rain production. For whatever reason, remove the sulfur and soot production drops big time.

 

[Red Fox Ranch]

Here it is in a nutshell...

The big auto manufacturers, Ford, Chevy, etc. are trying to please the enviros by making diesels run cleaner than ever before, therefore they are making emissions systems to trap all the harmful sulfur before it emits from the tail pipe. In doing so they have created a very sensitive emissions system for the new trucks, like one said only 15 PPM sulfur, vs regular diesel @ 500 PPM, if you run the traditional diesel it will completely clog the vehicles emissions system, and this is where the damage happens usually needing to replace the emissions equipment. Interesting thing is back some years ago the allowable sulfur content was 2500 PPM until they made them reduce to 500.

 

[monton]

so the old deisel will harm the new motors, but the new deisel is fine for the old motors? ...maybe with an additive???

 

[Exiled]

This new diesel is throwing a lot of stuff off kilter...for example, VW will not have any TDI's for the '07 model year. In fact, they're no longer bringing in any more TDIs. I'd considered replacing my current TDI Jetta with a newer one, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen until '08 at least.

So it looks like for new diesel passenger vehicles, it's only Daimler-Chrysler.

 

[monton]

that's @#&*&@* ing retarded!!! it's a conspiracy to get rid of deisels.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Folks have suggested putting a quart of ATF in when your fill up for lubrication as well. I've done it once and no apparent harm was done. I think here in Central America we have ultra HIGH sulfur diesel with all the black smoke clouds following the buses and trucks.