low rpm slowness on 22re

[inacoma]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to tune up an 85 efi sr5 that I would like to sell..but I thought I might do some tuning up before I do that.

I just rebuilt the engine with a new engnbldr head (less than 500 miles on it). I got the "works" from him...oversized, stainless, viton, etc. I am using the engnbldr torquer cam as well. I also used ARP head studs and upgraded the intake manifold to the late model. Also put on a new Doug T. Header, rest of cat back is sorta thin with cherry bomp (cat back from previous owner) My issue is this...

...during acceleration from about 0-3k rpm...I get extremely sluggish performance...after 3k you can feel the "kick" that occurs, but by then I normall want to shift the truck...then again, next gear, same issue.

Do I have a vacuum issue? or is it something even more simple. I'm at a loss..i've tried increasing timing, idle, etc...nothing really improves it. is there some diag's I can do to hep me troubleshoot it? The PO put a flexalite fan (no clutch), could that be dragging me down?

any assistance greatly appreciated.

..oh I should note that I live at high altitude (Denver).

thanks

kumar

 

[Hilux]

Head shaved?...Block decked?


timing shorted?


negative on the Flex fan IMO.

Fuel filter and sock (in tank FP pre-filter) changed?...And help me out Mud, what about the fuel regulator?

 

[inacoma]

Head not shaved.
Block not decked
New Fuel Filter
Freshly balanced and blue printed injectors.

timing shorted...not sure what you mean there...

in tank FP pre-filter....never knew there was one...I did have gas in the truck for 2 years (had stabilizer in it)...but maybe that got gummed up?

Before I parked the truck for 2 years, I dont remember this being a problem with the stock head...so maybe the sock?

Fuel regulator...haven't checked, not sure how to check.

I can tell you that I can cruizer really well at 70-75 mph, but if I let off the gas a bit the truck hesitates quite a bit (never to the point where it dies)...but there is definitely a hesitation in the engine.

Head shaved?...Block decked?


timing shorted?


negative on the Flex fan IMO.

Fuel filter and sock (in tank FP pre-filter) changed?...And help me out Mud, what about the fuel regulator?

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! I'm guessing you did not have the problem before the head rebuild. Is there a chance you have the valve timing retarded just a bit? I know that it is an old trick to advance it 2-4 degrees to increase bottom end performance on a 350 chevy, but you do trade off a little on the other end. I can't even remember how the valve timing is setup on the 22RE, and I have one! John

 

[pappy]

Do you have an adjustable cam gear? Sounds like your camshaft is retarded like inkpot said.

 

[inacoma]

Do you have an adjustable cam gear? Sounds like your camshaft is retarded like inkpot said.

I don't have an adjustable cam...I lined everything up with TDC when I put it all back together...so i'm pretty sure there is no advance or retard...but who knows...mabrodis was around when I did it...

ktp

 

[Hilux]

I just got an adjustable cam gear, I put it on long enough to realize how easy things can get even more screwed up.

Thinking that the cam had to match the marks at the top of the rocker assy, I called the guy at LCE. He said those arrow marks had little reference to cam timing. (I'm NOT doing replacements, I'm doing it from scratch,,I have no reference)


He told me that that in my case the cam was where it should be, so off it came.

From what I understand the cam being just a few degrees off can be a drastic difference. Plus he told me more or less a "cam degree" was in order....sorry can't do...not at this time.

Just make SURE that's what you need cuz not needing it can fowl up a simple thing real quick.

 

[Jukelemon]

I don't have an adjustable cam...I lined everything up with TDC when I put it all back together...so i'm pretty sure there is no advance or retard...but who knows...mabrodis was around when I did it...

ktp

It is very easy to be off one link with that timing chain-especially at the crank gear because it is hard to see down there when you try to put back the cam gear on the cam.

Maybe you got off a tooth?

 

[Hilux]

It is very easy to be off one link with that timing chain-especially at the crank gear because it is hard to see down there when you try to put back the cam gear on the cam.

Maybe you got off a tooth?

if that was the case w/ me I would forgo using the marks on the chain. I would: crank TDC, and per the tech at LCE the cam will be a little to the left of the arrows on the rocker assy. You can also use a probe to make sure its at TDC. Remove the #1 spark plug and chech with a small screw driver, rotating the crank to make sure it is in fact at TDC. The cam dowel pin will(should) be at 12:00. If you notice the cam dowel pin does NOT match the timing mark on the cam gear anyway.

those marks on the TC aren't all there cracked up to be.

 

[inacoma]

It is very easy to be off one link with that timing chain-especially at the crank gear because it is hard to see down there when you try to put back the cam gear on the cam.

Maybe you got off a tooth?

It is ENTIRELY possible that I'm off by one tooth. I'm just not sure in which direction that would be

I wonder if getting an adjustable cam will solve my issues here...as it's a royal PITA to get that chain onto the cam gear, let alone try to change which tooth it's on.

any suggestions on which adjustable cam to get? ... I hate to pour more money into this rig, seeing that I am trying to sell it too

ktp

 

[mabrodis]

...mabrodis was around when I did it...

ktp

Therefore it is FLAWLESS!!!

The hesitation is kinda odd actually...I have a '85 truck also, but mine is the carb model, so totally different from this aspect. On ktp's it has plenty of power if you just floor it and it's at some rpm above ~2500rpms...but if you push gently on the gas at say 2500rpms it will buck and just feels wrong, will slowly, very slowly, accelerate, then will kinda 'kick in' and take off.

 

[Hilux]

timing shorted...not sure what you mean there...

You have to short out two connections at the diagnostic box.

EFI's can adjust for altitude. Shorting these two connectors takes all the adv/ retard and altitude OUT of the computer and gives you a base line.


I'm doing it on my 85RTE and it's giving me the trouble codes

Strange that the book would give me the diagnostic codes in the "ignition timing" part of the book.

 

[inacoma]

You have to short out two connections at the diagnostic box.

EFI's can adjust for altitude. Shorting these two connectors takes all the adv/ retard and altitude OUT of the computer and gives you a base line.


I'm doing it on my 85RTE and it's giving me the trouble codes

Strange that the book would give me the diagnostic codes in the "ignition timing" part of the book.

that's what I thought you had meant, but wasn't sure it wasn't something more "complicate". Yeah, my timing is not shorted....except when I do the timing

ktp

 

[Jukelemon]

It is ENTIRELY possible that I'm off by one tooth. I'm just not sure in which direction that would be

I wonder if getting an adjustable cam will solve my issues here...as it's a royal PITA to get that chain onto the cam gear, let alone try to change which tooth it's on.

any suggestions on which adjustable cam to get? ... I hate to pour more money into this rig, seeing that I am trying to sell it too

ktp

Hey man, I agree it is a PITA UNTIL you know the trick to do it. You MUST use a punch or whatever to rotate the cam just a bit so that the amount of slack in the chain increases. I am talking about rotating that cam about 1-2 degrees if that. There is a hole in the cam by the cam gear fo rthis purpose.

IF you did not do this, I do not see how you could have put on the cam gear correctly and in time and with the marks lined up. To be honest, and someone correct me, I don't think it is even possible to do with a new chain and proper timing chain guide alignment.

That particular step of the process had me stumped and it took me a bit before reading the fine print that I HAD to rotate the cam to do it.

Maybe you did this I don't know. But I suspect you did not if you think it was a PITA. If I did it again, knowing what I know now, it would take no longer than two minutes to drop the chain, with the crank gear, put on the crank gear, rotate the cam and put on the cam gear with chain attached. Then take the cam back to TDC.

Also, at high rpms, the rotational force on the chain could be making up for the one tooth but at lower rpms it falls back into poor timing.

I don't know about that one.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Hilux]

It is ENTIRELY possible that I'm off by one tooth. I'm just not sure in which direction that would be

I wonder if getting an adjustable cam will solve my issues here...as it's a royal PITA to get that chain onto the cam gear, let alone try to change which tooth it's on.

whoa, whoa, whoa! Then you don't know how to do it. It is EASY!!

take the gear off and (at all times) hold it firm up, depending on the rotation take one side of the chain where it just does go into the teeth. Then create a little loop and place the next link in the teeth, holding the chain, "roll" the loop of chain over the teeth until you reach the end on the other side.

I then use a pry bar to gently hold it against the cam gear. (cammed at the place in the head the half moon goes) I then use my other hand to slightly rotate the crank l/r, l/r with a long ratchet or torque wrench I have on the crank bolt to get the tensioner to give enough slack and line up the dowel pin so it will just snap back on where it's supposed to be....EZ!


doing this keeps the cam at TDC so I don't have to worry about valves hitting the pistons. And you only move the crank VERY LITTLE to get some slack.

any suggestions on which adjustable cam to get?
ktp

uh? the only one available?

 

[inacoma]

I did what Hilux mentioned...jiggled the crank bolt...this was frustration on my part, then low and behold the chain had slack and it popped on. I thought it was dumb luck, but apparently it's the "Technique"

ok, thanks for the tips on moving the crank...once I get my 80 in order I will dive into the cam on the mini.

ktp

 

[Hilux]

ok, thanks for the tips on moving the crank...once I get my 80 in order I will dive into the cam on the mini.

ktp

COPYCAT!

lol, been there...(only it was Mini V. LC)

 

[inacoma]

COPYCAT!

lol, been there...(only it was Mini V. LC)

Now that's some funny $h1t!!!

ktp

 

[inacoma]

Hey man, I agree it is a PITA UNTIL you know the trick to do it. You MUST use a punch or whatever to rotate the cam just a bit so that the amount of slack in the chain increases. I am talking about rotating that cam about 1-2 degrees if that. There is a hole in the cam by the cam gear fo rthis purpose.

IF you did not do this, I do not see how you could have put on the cam gear correctly and in time and with the marks lined up. To be honest, and someone correct me, I don't think it is even possible to do with a new chain and proper timing chain guide alignment.

That particular step of the process had me stumped and it took me a bit before reading the fine print that I HAD to rotate the cam to do it.

Maybe you did this I don't know. But I suspect you did not if you think it was a PITA. If I did it again, knowing what I know now, it would take no longer than two minutes to drop the chain, with the crank gear, put on the crank gear, rotate the cam and put on the cam gear with chain attached. Then take the cam back to TDC.

Also, at high rpms, the rotational force on the chain could be making up for the one tooth but at lower rpms it falls back into poor timing.

I don't know about that one.

Just some thoughts.

You wouldn't happen to know which direction I should move the cam would you? Sounds like it's retarded and needs to be advanced. I know when we put the truck back together that mabrodis actually indexed the distributor gear because we weren't getting enough advance. So basically we need to put the cam gear back into it's original location and advance the cam instead.

ktp

 

[Hilux]

put the crank at TDC, then either snap a pic, or tell us where the dot is on the cam gear.

(I'm almost willing to be your problem isn't in the timing...almost)