Looking for quick and dirty advice - possible water in fuel (1 Viewer)

[83bj60]

Looking for quick and dirty advice - possible water in fuel? No, it was the ACSD

Hey folks,

Had my first worry in the Beast today. I had just tanked fresh yesterday at my favorite station, Bélisle, in Mirabel, the funny thing is they had barred two of the three lanes, so I ended up tanking at the outermost pump.

Well, this morning something weird happened. It started fine, but when I arrived at my job site the idle was quite high for some reason. Never thought anything about it, got to the job, but when I restarted a few hours later, the engine bucked and surged, and at some point seemed like it would stall. No problem on the highway, though. Just at idle. So I felt confident to drive 20Ks and arrived at the other job (it was an emergency call I simply could not avoid), it wouldn't shut off, with the ignition off it kind of ran on!!! No smoke at all, no smell... Just ran on!!!

Things I did:

1 - Check fluids and leaks: none. Oil level OK, Coolant level OK. Radiator full.
2 - Wires: no disconnected or frayed wires that i could see.
3 - Looked under the truck: no leaks, no broken wires.
4 - Removed the engine fuses: no effect while the engine was running on with the key off, it just sounded the key buzzer.

So I switched the key back on, drove a couple of feet to park properly, with no misses and this time it shut off normally. It's run smooth since.

I am baffled. Firstly, that it would run rough like that, secondly, that I would run on with the key off.

I suspect water in the fuel. Could that be a possibility, considering it was running fine at highway speeds?

Another suspect would be wrong timing. However, would that not be a steady issue, considering it seems fine now?

I am getting ready to drain the tank and the fuel filter, but before doing so I would appreciate your comments and any advice you may have (never had to drain either), before I put my skidoo suit on and enjoy nice slush falling off the underbelly of the Beast

Thanks in advance. I'll go now outside and line up the wheel ramps, and be back in a jiffy.

 

[djsherif]

Best of luck, I'm just coming off a full pump and injector rebuild likely due to bad fuel and the ACSD so im sending you good vibes for it to be nothing serious.

sherif

 

[Doug384]

It sounds like your EDIC is frozen or stuck in the run position. I don't think that water in the fuel allows your engine to keep running when the key is off! There may be an electrical intermittent in the EDIC circuit which maybe is due to wear, cold or maybe moisture. This winter climate is tough on these systems. Get it warmed up inside, disassemble to clean it up and inspect for wear. If that doesn't cure the problem, look for a replacement, rebuild it or go cable/rod operation of fuel pump shut off lever.

 

[83bj60]

Update...

Fist of all thanks for your support! This forum is the best place for Landcruisers in NA

djsherif: there was absolutely NO water in the fuel filter. None whatsoever. The medium was a bit dark, however, so I replaced it nevertheless for good measure. In any case, it's unlikely to have contributed to the problem since it is running well off idle.
As for the ACSD, you're getting me worried a bit. Could the symptoms be caused by an ACSD failure?. I'd be grateful for any info you may have on it. I disconnected the "Thermo Wax" actuator last year, so I presumed it stopped acting on the ACSD altogether. Any tips on removing the whole thing would be greatly appreciated. In any case the ACSD has never made any noise that characteristic of a dangerously worn part. Should I remove it completely and if so, what kind of work does it represent? How do I remove it? can I do that in my driveway?

Doug384: the 1HD-T has no edic, and no way to shut the engine off manually. The injection pump has a fuel shut-off solenoid. Once off, no fuel gets to the injectors.

However, the fact it was running rough and almost choking at idle is inconsistent with fuel starvation caused by a sticking fuel shut off solenoid, since it operates well under high flow (highway) conditions and refused to shut itself off with the solenoid in the off position.

At this point, I am baffled, because I cannot find a probable cause for the problem. Besides, the fact it only happened at idle and came back to normal eventually tells me it's unlikely to be caused by a failed component, since it went away.

The fact there was no water in the filter makes it unlikely it was caused by water. AFAIK, water gets absorbed in the paper of the filter and clogs it. There was no trace of water whatsoever...

It almost felt like vapour lock in a gas engine...

I will definitely look into the ACSD issue. Anyone with further info, by all means feel free to chip in!

 

[AGreekBoy]

When you refueled were you completely out of fuel? Just asking because it happened to me once on my 12HT, that I ran it so low that when I refueled, I had crap in my tank and it pushed to the filter causing my filter to clog.

You could possibly have a vacumm issue with your solenoid, causing the engine to run with the key off. On my 12ht it was vacumm shut off and I had problems with it, so just put a cable shut off like mentioned above.

 

[AGreekBoy]

Best of luck, I'm just coming off a full pump and injector rebuild likely due to bad fuel and the ACSD so im sending you good vibes for it to be nothing serious.

sherif

Are you using a fuel pressure guage?

 

[mudgudgeon]

I removed my ACSD and made a steel blank plate which I screwed in its palce with the o-ring seal from the ACSD. You can buy a blanking plate kit supposedly, no idea where from though.

for it to run on, it is getting "fuel" from somewhre, either a faulty fuel cut solenoid, or possibly it is burning blow by oil vapour from the crankcase or you have leaking turbo seals.

I would suggest you investigate the possibility of leaking turbo seals, or excessive blow by vapour coming from crankcase ventilation tube if you dont find an obvious solution elsewhere.

I had my 1HD-T run on while I was driving at 100km/hr, I needed both feet hard on the brake with the transmission in 5th gear to stall the bastard, the clutch burnt up bad from it, RPM went through the roof, well over redline scary s***

 

[djsherif]

I had my acsd removed by the injection shop when they rebuilt my pump but there are a few write-ups here on mud. The only symptoms i had before everything died was running a little rough on startup, more smoke than normal especially when idling in drive and that's about it.

I think the acsd job is fairly easy to do and you only need a blanking plate and gasket from an injector shop. If you give them your pump number they can look it up though i heard they're a pretty standard part. Some have used plates from vw bosch pumps.

Keep us posted.

 

[83bj60]

When you refueled were you completely out of fuel? Just asking because it happened to me once on my 12HT, that I ran it so low that when I refueled, I had crap in my tank and it pushed to the filter causing my filter to clog.

No, it had not reached the bottom mark yet, I could probably have driven home. But now that I remember, last Friday, I almost ran out, the light had come on. But I had no issues after that. Hmmm!...

You could possibly have a vacumm issue with your solenoid, causing the engine to run with the key off. On my 12ht it was vacumm shut off and I had problems with it, so just put a cable shut off like mentioned above.

Yes, but how could that explain a rough idle, if the solenoid can't shut off properly? unless that solenoid never closed perfectly tight and always let a bit of fuel pass, and the run on was caused by that little fule doing something thanks to the excessive advance due presumably caused by a problem with the ACSD lever... I hope to check it pout tomorrow, tring to get an ACSD blanking plate. Been chained to te desk for the past two days, one more to go... Arrrgh!

 

[83bj60]

I removed my ACSD and made a steel blank plate which I screwed in its palce with the o-ring seal from the ACSD. You can buy a blanking plate kit supposedly, no idea where from though.

for it to run on, it is getting "fuel" from somewhre, either a faulty fuel cut solenoid, or possibly it is burning blow by oil vapour from the crankcase or you have leaking turbo seals.

I would suggest you investigate the possibility of leaking turbo seals, or excessive blow by vapour coming from crankcase ventilation tube if you dont find an obvious solution elsewhere.

Yep, leaky turbo seals sound like a possibility. Good point. But I hardly burn any oil at all, maybe 1l per 10,000km. Plus no smoke at all when it was happening... I'll check operation with the oil cap off, to see if I can feel any blowby...

I had my 1HD-T run on while I was driving at 100km/hr, I needed both feet hard on the brake with the transmission in 5th gear to stall the bastard, the clutch burnt up bad from it, RPM went through the roof, well over redline scary s***

Man, what a scare! Now imagine that on an auto tranny, with no mechanical shut off at all... Do you simply let the engine blow up? You know what I'd do if that happened? I'd put it in reverse while it's moving forward!!! No kidding, did that once by mistake on the higway, and it promptly shut the engine off

 

[Doug384]

Blocking the air intake will shut the engine down. BUT NEVER USE YOUR HAND! Use a book, end of a tin can or something solid, not a rag or a something that will sucked in. I am assuming that the cause is run on fueled by lubricating oil. Thanks for the tip on your machine engine model. The 83 BJ60 with a 3B does have the EDIC system. Do you have the 1HDT installed in the old chassis? That is an interesting way to go.

 

[83bj60]

Blocking the air intake will shut the engine down. BUT NEVER USE YOUR HAND! Use a book, end of a tin can or something solid, not a rag or a something that will sucked in. I am assuming that the cause is run on fueled by lubricating oil. Thanks for the tip on your machine engine model. The 83 BJ60 with a 3B does have the EDIC system. Do you have the 1HDT installed in the old chassis? That is an interesting way to go.

Nah, the 83bj60's defunct... I just kept the handle And thanks for the tip for choking the engine, never even thought about it...

Tomorrow I'll have a closer look and keep yo updated. I've been chained to the desk since it happened

 

[83bj60]

water in fuel/ nope! ACSD Failure!!!

I am now officially the latest member of the broken ACSD club...

As for those who said it was a 5 minute job to remove it... Yeah, right!!!! Two of the Allen screws were unbelievably hard to remove...

I've learned something new today...

1) Don't assume for one bit that the ACSD will 'rattle', letting you know it is about to fail. Mine never made any rattles.
2) Considering they ALL fail at exact same spot, I consider this a manufactring defect from Toyota, and that they must be removed at all costs.