Limited Slip Diff? (11 Viewers)

[albertom]

Hey all, well i was interested in purchasing a rear limited slip for my FJ70. I was wondering what experiences people have had with these products and what would be the recomended brand and application. I live in Colombia, South America, so i would have to import it from somewhere preferebly the USA.

Granted, i would love to put the ARB lockers on my ride, but i dont really have that sort of budget, or if anyone knows on how to get the cheapest ARB lockers in the US, i would be willing to consider it in the near future.

Let me know what your preferences are for fixing up a rig, what are the priorities and in what order you would do it... thanks! Any imput is appreciated

 

[crushers]

go aussi locker...

 

[cruiser88]

dont do it man

 

[albertom]

Dont do what? the ARB or the Limited Slip... if i were to go with the ARB, what web page can sell me the complete kit for the best price?

I use the car as a Daily Driver so i wouldnt want to go with a complete locker with no on/off switch, and i was wondering... with the ARB Lockers, it sends 100% torque to one wheel when the other is in the air, doesnt that break the axel's?

Thanks for the help guys

 

[crushers]

if you want an on/off locker then go with factory elec...
(i H8 ARB air lockers)
mind you if you have a semi floater rear then your hands are tied...

 

[UpsideDown]

IMHO, the limited slips are not really a good substitute for a locked diff. I simply will not install LSDs into any diff unless the owner can give me a very, very good reason why I should.

I have had very good success with ARBs, though some others have not. It depends a lot on installation and how the driver (or idiot in some cases) uses/abuses it. Used properly and respectfully they last a long time.

ARBs are definitely a maintenance item. Expect to have it out every two to three years for an inspection and possibly new o-rings.

I've been running ARBs for some 15 or 16 years now and have had few problems in my own truck, but some of my customers have had annoying seal and air line issues (air line issues are more related to routing than anything else).

The factory lockers are probably your best option.

In many ways, it's better to save your $$ and do it the right way once, than to do something half-baked the first time only to pay again to have it fixed or done right later.

 

[crushers]

hummm, i getting the feeling that if you don't like something, it is "half-baked"...
add-a-leaf, limited slip... anything else you classify as "half-baked"?

as for the limited slip, sand blast the clutchplates and shim the main spring. it increases the performance substantially and, i finstalled in the front, it will slip before the birfield breaks...

 

[Gold Boy]

my stock lsd works very well for a lot of situations. the slip is very very limited.
true i do not rock crawl. but i do off road lots in mud and snow.

 

[David*BJ70]

Where to find LSD ?

I belive LSD is more expensive than a aussi locker ? Yes...no ?

I don't like the idea of a automatic locker for a short wheel base truck when it have snow here for 4 month a years !... and ARB selectable is out of price !

 

[bigbrowndog]

Half baked LSD diffs are very useful in some of our half baked trucks. Sure beats the hell out of getting out in the mud or water to lock the front hubs. LOL.

 

[petermac]

Anyone know where (in Canada) a guy could get a set of factory electric lockers for install on an HZJ73? Any idea what the conversion from LSD to lockers might cost...?

Thanks!

Peter

 

[UpsideDown]

hummm, i getting the feeling that if you don't like something, it is "half-baked"...
add-a-leaf, limited slip... anything else you classify as "half-baked"?

as for the limited slip, sand blast the clutchplates and shim the main spring. it increases the performance substantially and, i finstalled in the front, it will slip before the birfield breaks...

Ah, it's just that I've seen so many jobs come through my shop that are about fixing other people's poor installation or "bad choice" screw ups I get a little jaded.

The LSD issue is one I've debated time and time again... starting way back over 10 years ago on the OffRoad mailing list and again when the LCML was just getting going.

LSDs can and do break birfs in the front. Hubs locked and in 4wd or not, they stress the birfs and cause heavy steering. They don't always slip before a birf breaks and the constant stress is not healthy.

In the rear, it really depends on the type of terrain and how many wheels you can keep on the ground. I debated these issues to the point of frustration with Jim Hassi years ago... he swore up and down that his dual LSD truck (SOA, 35s, Auburns) would perform equally to my dual locked truck (SUA, 33s, ARBs)... and when we were on a little trail out in Sooke during one of our Island Rock Crawls...with trucks trying to grip slippery rocks at precarious angles he finally releneted as I cleaned the trail and he was losing traction all over the place (nearly rolling off a very nasty slope with a 4 or 5 metre drop) and had to get the hook on a several occasions. His traction issues were primarily related to LSD slip in low traction terrain (and not the high traction slick rock of Moab, for example).

I could go on about add-a-leaves... but it's just not worth my time. When people pay me to work on their trucks, it has to be done right the first time (or very close to it), because I start losing money the moment they come back unhappy.

So, for about the same labour/install time you can have a locker or an LSD... for a few $$ more you meet the purchase price of the locker... what's it going to be?

~John

 

[crushers]

John, how long have you been working on cruisers? it seems 10 years which is respectable. i too have been wrenching on cruisers for about 25 years, all makes of Land cruisers from very early 45 series till the 80 series at which time i lost interest in the mechanics side...
one thing i have learned is that tires will do what a locker can not, a limited slip setup right can do the job where ARBs espec in Canada can leave you stranded due to water /oil in the line, poor install or abuse. some form of locking action is better than none.
a lock rite can keep up with a ARB or elec. i proved this point again at Lee's off road park duing a multi club run where the open diffed tractor kept up to the locked front and rear swamper equiped trucks some with even larger tires.
driver expertise can compensate for lack of hp or lockers.
i too have seen my share of crappy installs, piss poor choice in additions and huge wasted money on stuff a person doesn't need or doesn't work in the application of the wheeling/driving involved.
if a person is on a budget and is getting a limited slip for free then go for it. if you need to buy the limited slip then go with a lock rite for a inexpensive locker, go elec if you have FF or ARB (spit, spit) if you are semi floatered.
in the end it is up to the consumer to either head the advice given before purchase or not. (personally, i have very little respect for ARB lockers as you probably have already noted)
i WILL NOT run a full lock inthe front of my vehicles and do not recommend them to my customers. changing birfields in the bush is a DIRTY time consuming job. i recomm,end a winch before a front locker, actually i recommend a 8274 before any locker.
as for the add-a-leafs, if the budget allows for a small lift then they work excelllent IF THE RIGHT one are installed. i have seem some real s*** full leaf packs sold over the years, they seem to come and go.
best bang for the buck was the Belton setup, the OME are a huge waste of money since the Dakars are cheaper and made to the same specs as the OME. Terrain Tamer is a very nice setup. the american spring kits are s*** (at least the ones i have seen)
John, any time you are out this way come wheeling for a day. there is a great bunch here in Calgary.

 

[Gold Boy]

out of interest, what are the aussi lockers road manners like for winter road driving?

 

[UpsideDown]

John, how long have you been working on cruisers? it seems 10 years which is respectable. i too have been wrenching on cruisers for about 25 years, all makes of Land cruisers from very early 45 series till the 80 series at which time i lost interest in the mechanics side... [...snip...].

I've been at it about 15 - 16 years with my own Cruisers, pulling wrenches on and off for the past 22 or so. The learning curve was steep when I was young and foolish, not too many resources around at the time other than the boys at the local 4wd shop who spent most of their time mudding and gave out pretty poor trail truck advice.

I have been out of the scene for a while now, got tired of the local kids and the continuous pissing contests that went on. I'm just getting back into the Cruiser scene again (need to resto the ol' BJ42 again, however) and am opening my sometimes open/somtimes closed shop back up to open full time (at least until I hear whether my app to med school gets accepted or not).

I have had some bad experiences with ARB, but it's hard to argue with a company (and a great guy, Jim Jaackson) that will warranty a unit 5 years past its warranty date - and send the new unit down to Moab free of charge for me to install and use on my spring vacation (it was one of the original 4 bolt designs... old news if you know about their past).

The good is that most of the ARBs (in Cruisers, at least) hold up very well. Other applications are not so fortunate, but that's mostly due to weaknesses elsewhere. I've had very little trouble with my own and the ones I've installed.

I've had, and used extensively, LockRights (had a rear unit in my SOA, SM420 [and my SM420 install article is still staple reading] TBI 350, Saginaw, 8274, OBA, 4Wheel discs etc. FJ45... and stupid me sold it a few years ago) and it was quite good. It had some unusual quirks, but was a great thing to have.

I've installed and driven Aussies as well as others (they are really all the same, very subtle differences). I am not a fan of LSDs.... maybe in the same way you don't like ARBs, who knows?

I have had only 1 personal birfield failure in my Toyota experience (and that was on the 'Con about 2 minutes after I bragged that I had never broken one before [now I have to go and touch wood]). It's very suprising given that I've run 30s, 33s, 36s and 38.5s in various Cruisers.... and some fairly healthy engines and low gears too. I do drive with respect for my truck since I don't feel I should be wrenching on it all week long just to kill it again the next weekend.

I have seem many, many broken birfs, though, and I can attirbute much of it to factors like: bad driving style, poor installation (use a good Moly grease!), bent housings (seems common on mini-trucks), using wayyyyyy too much skinny pedal (bad driving again), inappropriate use (on pavement!).

I do advocate use of lockers in the front, but I'm strongly in favour of selectable units and not auto-lockers - judidicous use of a selectable locker will not cause pre-mature birf failure. I just can't stand LSDs in any application other than a street driven truck (but, then, why even install one?). I have yet to see anything but a new or nearly new LSD be of that much help here on the Wet Coast of BC.

Anyhow... I have to get back to the shop, my coffee break is way past over.

And, if I'm out, I'll stop by. There used to be lots of great guys out your way... I've just lost track of everyone in the intervening years I spent as a (starving) teacher-on-call.

 

[UpsideDown]

out of interest, what are the aussi lockers road manners like for winter road driving?

I'd have to say: it all depends how you drive (and who's going to be driving your truck).

They can be hair raising if you drive like crap; and inspiring if you drive with respect and consideration for what you have.

There is, of course, the age old thing about slipping wheels and side slopes, but that falls into the category of driving with consideration.

They do work better in longer wheel base vehicles on slippery roads, since they take more time to swap ends. I put 1000s of snowy winter kms on my FJ45 and loved the Lock Right every moment of the way. Just don't forget it's there...

 

[crushers]

John, we will agre to disagree on some points but you sound like a cool character i would like to meet someday...
to add to the auzzi locker (lockrite, easylocker etc) when driving on snow or ice lock the front diff and don't be scared to slip it into 4H (on the fly) and back out when needed. i do this even with the open rear diff in snow or on loose gravel.
cheers and peace...

 

[Tapage]

My opinion ..

Save your money for ARB or Factory cable /electric locker .. don't waste your money in LSD .. ( the same price as Detroit locker ).

In the ARB section .. I have done my ARB intalation and use from 3 - 4 years agoo ( 4 in jan ) never ( trust me never ) have an issue with those locker ..

Yea is a big part on instalation setings, I never thing in do that by myself .. I pay for it for someone ( here an ARB old men that really know what to do ) to do the right job.