LC200 'UK Spec' Engine Failing in Asia (1 Viewer)

[farhanbd]

Dear Friends,

My family owns a 2012 Land Cruiser 200 which was purchased brand new from UK and then shipped to my native country Bangladesh (in South East Asia). The vehicle came with a 1VD-FTV and had Diesel Particular Filters (DPFs). Just for your general information, despite having a Toyota dealership in my native country, my family still chose to import from UK as the UK version was more upgraded (air suspension, wheels, interior features) than the spec that was offered through the dealership in my native country. It is important to note that the LC 200s offered through our dealership had the 1VD-FTV engines but did NOT have the DPFs. It is also important to note that there are plenty of LC200s in my country that were sold by the dealership.

Now with regard to my LC200, the issues are chronologically outlined below:

1) The DPFs started giving errors from about 13,000 miles

2) I did a DPF delete through installation of an emulator at about 14,500 miles

3) My engine failed/ceased at about 16,000 miles in the year 2016

4) As per the guidance of my authorised service centre, I installed a brand new engine, 2 brand new turbos and another set of brand new DPFs in 2016.

5) In the same year also installed a set of brand new catalytic converters.

6) The DPFs started giving errors again at about 25,000 miles which is when I deleted them again and installed a new set of emulators.

7) Currently the vehicle has about 32,000 miles. The engine has become very, very noisy again. It keeps giving check-sign errors. The fault code is P1605.

Every time the fault code is deleted, the engine runs fine for about 20 or 30 km but then it becomes slow and heavy. There is no excessive engine vibration that can be felt from inside. But the engine noise is embarrassingly loud.

My third party service centre tells me that it is due to the diesel in my native country (which I must confess is certainly not Euro-6 diesel!) not suiting the UK version engine (despite my local dealership LC200s also having 1VD-FTV engine). My third party service centre proposing to try and arrange a 1VD-FTV with ECU that is meant for an LC200 that was sold by my local dealership and then installing it in my UK version LC200. But the service centre is confused if doing so will generate continual check signs in my LC200.

I will really appreciate if anyone can shed some light.

*Is the 2012 UK version 1VD-FTV really different than that in the LC200s that were sold in South East Asia?
*If so then will a South East Asia version 1VD-FTV be a bolt-on for my UK version LC200?
*Is there any workaround for me to keep my stock UK version 1VD-FTV and have it function without failure in my native country?
*Currently given my engine condition, wherein there is excessive internal noise bt acceptable acceleration and smoothness (in non check-sign conditions), do I need a full-on replacement?

 

[doru]

Just a heads up that most of the people in this forum are US based and we never got the diesel in any form. There are some people from UK, Philippines, and mostly Australia that are visiting here but not often.

I'm not familiar with your engine but if your engine runs smooth after cleaning the code, it means your engine is OK and doesn't need replacement.

There is something else auxiliary to the engine that triggers the ECM. It might be that the first engine got eventually damaged by not attending to the real cause, or just because the garage didn't have a clue, and you had a large pocket to pay up for it.

Good luck and also try finding and posting your question on an Australian 200 forum. Those guys are pretty versed on 200's.

 

[2021 LC200]

@farhanbd, modern diesels with DPF/NOX exhaust control systems are very complex. While I do not have direct LC200 1VD-FTV diesel experience, I can share some of my understanding gained through owning a BMW 535d (6 cylinder inline turbo diesel) here in the US. Certainly the general workings and issues/challenges are the same. Sorry for the long read, but please educate yourself instead of keep throwing money at it.

Modern Diesel Workings
- While many aspects have advanced and make modern diesels great when brand new (good power, great low end torque, relative smooth running due to high pressure fuel injection system) there are many complications as a result of the DPF/NOX exhaust emission systems forced upon us
- The DPF or Diesel Particle Filter takes out the sooth from the exhaust fumes. At face value a good thing, however given the amount of sooth from diesel engines they need regeneration aka "regen" about every 1000 km, timing managed by the engine management system monitoring the delta p (pressure drop) across the DPF as well as being in acceptable operating conditions (warmed up engine)
- During regeneration excess diesel is injected to create 800 degr C (or around 1600 deg F) conditions to burn of the sooth. These temps almost make steel red hot. The exhaust turbo's are in the path of this very high temperature process and everything else under the hood gets very, very hot (plastics and cables and gaskets and bolts all having a lot of fun under these conditions)
- Per the link below to the Toyota Club.Net, it looks like Toyota has added a diesel injector downstream of the exhaust valves to enable regeneration. That is actually a good design at face value as it eliminates the excess injection of diesel to get to regen conditions directly into the engine with known bypass of unburned diesel past the piston rings. Deterioration of the engine oil by diesel dilution as a result is a very common problem resulting in early turbo and main bearing failures and therefore general advice is to change oil more frequently than stated by the manufacturer. THIS IS ABSOLUTE essential for most modern diesels, seems though with the exhaust injector downstream of the cylinders, Toyota has resolved this key problem from the 1VD-FTV. Toyota does great things most of the time.
- Also for regen to occur you need to get to operating conditions and typically be driving instead of standing still and or idling. Therefore a lot of in town short distance driving or idling (which itself on a diesel produces more sooth) is a "killer" for modern diesels with DPF/NOX exhaust systems.
- In addition to the DPF there is a Oxidation cat in the exhaust system, often helped by Add Blue or Urea injection to break down NOX to H2O (water) and N2 (nitrogen). This itself is a delicate system as the metering system or add blue injector needs very specific small amounts of urea to be injected. The right Add Blue fluid and cleanliness of the same is very important. The Add Blue system itself needs heating under low temperature conditions, itself complex and another PITA system.
- Diesel fuel quality including sulfur content is another challenge for the light alloys used in modern diesels and to keep the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) running well, together with the high pressure injectors. The systems itself allows for much better and smoother burn of the diesel in the cylinders and direct fuel injection on top of the pistons (is more efficient than the old pre chamber design), however the diesel used is more critical. I do not know what diesel is being sold in Bangladesh and it also needs to be clean/particle free, although the fuel filter and more frequent replacement of the same should be able to take care of that. Here in the US they call this Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD). Per widely published info on this "Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) contains a maximum of 15 parts per million (ppm) of sulfur. For context, previous sulfur levels were up to 3,000 ppm . Will new diesel engines require this fuel? Serious damage will occur without it."

Toyota diesel - 1VD-FTV

Overview of Land Cruiser V8 diesel

toyota-club.net

Your Problem(s)
- From the description there seems to be a lot going on, sorry to hear...
- What stands out to me is a) the mentioned DPF "delete" by an emulator and b) the mechanical noise mentioned
- Can you explain please what was done to perform the DPF delete? Did they remove the DPF and Oxidation (NOX) cats including the add blue systems with a straight exhaust pipe? And as part of that remapped the motor management system not to look for these parameters anymore nor ask for this regen every 1000km? While I do not know if a full DPF delete exists for a LC200 1VD-FTV, that is what is needed to completely eliminate DPF plugging issues. An emulator only resulting in no regens while the DPF or Oxidation cat is still there leads to plugging pretty quickly (perhaps your issue). It may not be possible with the Toyota engine management system, although never say never. I assume Bangladesh law for diesel cars or annual tests do not ask for this, otherwise it is a no go right there.
- The mechanical issues encountered is likely related to use of "regular" diesel containing more sulfur, as has been used globally for as long as diesel exists. I do not think there would be a fix other than changing oil very frequently.
- A quick copy and paste from the internet "After combustion, sulfur from diesel fuel creates sulfuric acid that causes caused corrosive wear on the metal surfaces of an engine. Corrosion of a surface within in a dynamic system such as the cylinder wall/liner can lead to corrosive wear; surface corrosion layers are removed through sliding or abrasion." When BMW imported the 524td in the nineties in the US they found out the hard way that US diesel was not going to work. They brought the M57 (335d & X5) and N57 diesels (535d & Later model X5's) around 2010 when Ultra Low Sulfar Diesel became available.

Bangladesh Diesel Sulfur Content
A quick search on the internet reveals an issue with sulfur content sold in Bangladesh, for sure:
- The diesel sulfur content in Bangladesh varies based on different sources and quality.
- Under instructions from the Ministry of Environment and Forest, Bangladesh Petroleum Corporation (BPC) has begun importing diesel fuel with a lower sulphur content of 0.05% (500 parts per million, or ppm), down from the 0.25% that it had previously been importing.
- Interesting in Europe this is the evolution of sulfur content over time. Suggests that 500 or 350ppm sulfur content would work with more modern light allow diesel designs. I do not know this for a fact, as there are many parts and materials to an engine and Toyota may have special versions for certain countries to make it work

Sulfur Content in Diesel Fuel. The following are the most important steps in the evolution of EU diesel fuel specifications:
Effective 1994.10, a maximum sulfur limit of 0.2% (wt.) was introduced for all gas oils, including diesel fuel. The minimum cetane number was 49.
1996.10: A maximum sulfur limit of 0.05% (wt.) = 500 ppm for diesel fuel.
2000.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 350 ppm and cetane number of 51 for diesel fuel.
2005.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 50 ppm for diesel fuel for highway vehicles. “Sulfur-free” 10 ppm sulfur diesel fuel must be available.
2009.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 10 ppm (“sulfur-free”) for diesel fuel for highway vehicles.

Other Thoughts
- A search on the interent shows Toyota Bagladesh does sell the Hilux pickup with the 4 cylinder 2GD-FTV diesel
- I assume it does not have the DPF/Oxidation cat exhaust system, maybe because it is a commercial vehicle
- It must also have cylinder wall and other materials in there which can handle higher sulfur diesel, or in fact it also needs 500ppm which BPC is apparently working on.

Conclusion/Advice
Your situation is very complex just due to the nature of modern diesels and their complexity (exhaust system + sensitivity to diesel containing sulfur). There is not one way. It may in fact be time to stop trying to fix it or sell the bag of problems (not nice to pass this on to be honest) or perhaps export the LC200 again to the UK.

The other path is try to fix but it will take a lot of research and understanding and probable luck giving the many aspects involved (therefore I clearly cannot recommend, many known challenges and probably several unknowns even for an expert):
1) Figure out which countries sell LC200 1VD-FTV's and have lower quality diesel as well. In specific understand what sulfur content. An extensive search on internet may allow you to figure this out. Then look at part numbers for the UK version vs the "higher sulfure content diesel" country spec LC200 1VD-FTV and get those parts changed. Hopefully they just fit. I do not know if that version of the 1VD-FTV exhists, just a suggestion to a path forward.
2) If you manage to figure out 1), probably go for a full DPF/Ox cat delete if reprogaming of the Toyota engine management is possible, unless already done

As part of this you may have to wait for lower sulfur diesel to be widely sold in Bangladesh and then enjoy driving your 200 series.

Hope this helps, best of luck.

 

[2021 LC200]

Regarding the Hilux 2GD-FTV, after further reading up it has a cast iron block without liners. That is a key aspect of making it capable to handle high sulfur or regular diesel. The way they used to make diesels.

Toyota GD series diesel engines

Review of Toyota GD series diesel engines design and typical failures (1GD-FTV, 2GD-FTV)

toyota-club.net

GD series diesels:

 

[2021 LC200]

Reading again the article of the Toyota Club.Net, I overlooked that the 1VD-FTV has a cast iron block as well. Still details on cylinder lining and piston materials used can lead to mechanical issues. Also knowing there are pre DPF 1VD-FTV engines in earlier LC200 model years makes me hopeful there is a solution.

You may want to ask on a Australian Toyota or Land Cruiser forum these questions, as they have this engine in their 200's or get lucky here as some Australians are on IH8MUD as well.

Post write up addition - Looks like 1VD-FTV use in Africa are dealing with this sulfur content issue. Again hopeful you can find parts to make a 1VD-FTV work assuming you can alter the motor management issue. Per @bloc post below, part number differences is one way to figure this out and he is an expert at that. I do think trying to find a fix will be very, very difficult. Importing a 3UR-FE gasoline version would have been a much better idea despite higher fuel consumption and possible higher cost per liter.

Why is the 200 series V8 ok in Africa and but the 76 series is not?

Many of you probably know, the 76 series Landcruiser Diesel V8 is specified to only accept low sulphur 50ppm Diesel. Which means that you can't technically take it out of South Africa, because most other African countries have 500ppm Diesel as standard. Yet, upon checking out various Toyota...

www.4x4community.co.za

 

[bloc]

I have a hunch that the UK long block could be usable with the correct local accessories like injectors, ecu, turbos, etc.. the problem is that rabbit hole could get deep. You may need fuel pump, rails, pressure regulators, and lots of other stuff I'm not thinking of. And tracking this down could take a long time and a lot of parts.

Definitely the safer bet is just get a local engine and ECU.

I don't say "safe" because that may still not just plug into the UK market vehicle though.. depending on how toyota set things up the engine ECU may not want to communicate with the rest of the vehicle as it will have to be coded to the VIN of the truck, and we have no idea whether toyota designed that to be possible for different market parts. This is where a toyota expert would come in. I haven't been there but an OG user here has said the 200-series LC facebook group has a lot of australian people, where the diesel is much more common. I'd bet you can get more solid advice there as to what's compatible.

If you can get me the chassis code of your vehicle and a local 1VD example I can compare some part numbers of each to see what toyota changed between these models.. it would take a little time but I'm willing. The chassis code will be on the VIN tag in the driver's door jamb, and look something like "VDJ200-xxxxxx". These codes tell toyota what spec the vehicle is meaning engine transmission and other accessories, but it's different than the VIN, so you don't need to worry about privacy issues.

Good luck with it

 

[2021 LC200]

Looks like the 1VD-FTV 4.5 liter V8 diesel was sold in Bangladesh before or at least there are older versions around without the DPF/Ox cat system.

Buy Used 2012 Toyota Land Cruiser in Dhaka, Dhaka - Garirbazar.com

Buy and sell new and second hand used Toyota cars in Bangladesh with Garirbazar.com. The best prices with hundreds of cars available!

www.garirbazar.com

Whether you can convert your UK imported 200 to this setup (DPF/Ox cat full delete) and change enough parts to make it higher sulfur compatible is the million dollar question...

 

[windnsea00]

I wonder if where you regularly fill up the vehicle has clean and well-maintained diesel storage tanks? You hear about people occasionally in the US getting a bad tank of diesel with too much water content so they have to go change their fuel filter and such. Diesel is more susceptible to this, maybe worth considering getting a gas version of the 200 series and not dealing with these continuous problems?

 

[turbo8]

Does the Uk version have a fuel filter?

 

[bloc]

Does the Uk version have a fuel filter?

Pretty sure all diesels would.

 

[Workhorse]

@farhanbd There is a VDJ200 specific group in Australia that is extremely helpful with regard to engine codes, fueling issues and engine problems. See here: Log into Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/200seriesowners

Lots of great info there and most people are willing to help you. Give it a shot.

 

[farhanbd]

Thank you all for all the valued feedback.

Also thank you for referring the alternate site links which are more relevant for the 1VD LCs.

However I still wanted to ask a 1VD related question:
The online parts catalogue states that there are 2 (two) part numbers for the engine block which are as follows: 1140051020 and 1140051030. My service centre tells me that they are essentially the same and, although my VIN requires 1140051030, apparently the 1140051020 can seamlessly be installed in my vehicle.

Will appreciate if anyone can provide some clarity.

 

[TheComedian]

Does the Uk version have a fuel filter?

It does have. And as a nice benefit it even has a litle pump at the filter housing if you have to change the filter in the field.

To OP,
I am running kinda like the same engine. I think the only difference is that I have a UN/NGO spec GX 200 with a strongly reduced power down to 225hp to beeing able to run with s***ty diesel without problems.
So depending on the diesel quality in Malaysia you can take a look if it is possibly to give it a mapping for less god fuel quality.
And depending on that quality you should change the diesel filter every now and then. There is also a side in your manual regarding the change of it.

And as the others already said with the dpf you should have every now and then a lobger drive with some load so the dpf can regenerate itself. A diesel never was the best to go for only short drives.

Thats the filterhousing.

 

[2021 LC200]

Beside the reduced power setup do you know whether the pistons or head and valves are any different materials? Seems the block is cast iron, although OP’s point about part number difference maybe key as well for sulphur diesel compatibility.

 

[2021 LC200]

And of course Germany does have the low sulphur diesel… Perhaps you could swap engines and ECU’s, oh no…

 

[TheComedian]

And of course Germany does have the low sulphur diesel… Perhaps you could swap engines and ECU’s, oh no…

But my 200 isn’t a Europe/ Germany spec one.
But yeah its nice having a low power 200 with good quality diesel. The engine will last forever.

But I don’t think Toyota would make two different casts for the same engine besides the higher production costs running two lines. They probably made it capable for everything and then just adjusted with mappings for different settings like the Land Cruisers that get shipped to Toyota Gibraltar where durability is factor number one.

Besides that I can’t find anything in the internet that would say different. Steel block, aluminum heads.