Land Cruiser vs Cyber Truck (4 Viewers)

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Toyota is correct to focus on Hydrogen. Once solved, it will be superior to batteries on both end of the environmental cycle in addition to giving drivers more flexibility. EV's are a stopgap on the road to Hydrogen.

Currently, I commute (50 miles one way), in my Chevy Volt and I gotta say Hybrids\EV's dont require the same amount of maintenance. There are so many less parts to break and beat on.

Example: With regenerative breaking, I'm at 65K on the original break pads and they are great shape. Quite a few Volt owners are over 100K on the original pads and still not needing replacements. It's freaky and counter intuitive.

Anyways, we won't know if the Cybertruck will be worth a damn for at least 3 years. Personally I have my doubts about the stated range if being used offroad\4wheel drive. It's going to be interesting and at the very least will lead to more innovation in the auto industry.
 
25 moving parts in the drivetrain maybe. When you add up suspension, drivetrain, mirrors, windows, seats, steering, door and trunk latches, sunroof, hvac, battery cooling.. door handles even.. hundreds if not thousands. But even if it’s 25 in the drivetrain that is a massive reduction from the most basic 4cyl engine, let alone modern ones.

To me it seems like range should go up dramatically when speeds slow down to off-road levels. Little to no wind resistance, less tire rolling resistance.. obviously mud/dirt is less efficient but it takes quite a bit of continuous horsepower to push them down the road.
 
bloc said:
25 moving parts in the drivetrain maybe. When you add up suspension, drivetrain, mirrors, windows, seats, steering, door and trunk latches, sunroof, hvac, battery cooling.. door handles even.. hundreds if not thousands. But even if it’s 25 in the drivetrain that is a massive reduction from the most basic 4cyl engine, let alone modern ones.

To me it seems like range should go up dramatically when speeds slow down to off-road levels. Little to no wind resistance, less tire rolling resistance.. obviously mud/dirt is less efficient but it takes quite a bit of continuous horsepower to push them down the road.
Click to expand...
You are correct. Our Tesla is the opposite in terms of efficiency when compaired to ICE. Around town at <=45 mph I can get 15-20% better than rated range. But cruising along on the highway cruse set at 65 mph I’m 10-15% less than rated range.
 
bloc said:
25 moving parts in the drivetrain maybe. When you add up suspension, drivetrain, mirrors, windows, seats, steering, door and trunk latches, sunroof, hvac, battery cooling.. door handles even.. hundreds if not thousands. But even if it’s 25 in the drivetrain that is a massive reduction from the most basic 4cyl engine, let alone modern ones.

To me it seems like range should go up dramatically when speeds slow down to off-road levels. Little to no wind resistance, less tire rolling resistance.. obviously mud/dirt is less efficient but it takes quite a bit of continuous horsepower to push them down the road.
Click to expand...
coleAK said:
You are correct. Our Tesla is the opposite in terms of efficiency when compaired to ICE. Around town at <=45 mph I can get 15-20% better than rated range. But cruising along on the highway cruse set at 65 mph I’m 10-15% less than rated range.
Click to expand...

Yes, for a road EV you both are correct. City speeds around town increase your range\mileage.

Offroading where even traveling slow you be traveling over rough terrain, you will have wheel spin and using more torque and power than you would on a city road. Add in whatever gear you have loaded up and I doubt range will act they way you expect.

Also, what about towing? Pulling all that weight is not going to magically use less power.
 
TheDeliverator said:
Yes, for a road EV you both are correct. City speeds around town increase your range\mileage.

Offroading where even traveling slow you be traveling over rough terrain, you will have wheel spin and using more torque and power than you would on a city road. Add in whatever gear you have loaded up and I doubt range will act they way you expect.

Also, what about towing? Pulling all that weight is not going to magically use less power.
Click to expand...
Towing a camper with it will be the big hit. Not as much due to the weight but the aerodynamic drag of the trailer. Ive done rough math and guessing 50-60% range reduction, then but I have almost a 50% range reduction in my LX towing my camper.
Off road I bet dosnt lower range much at all. Electric motors full torque is instant, so very low draw crawling along and also with regenerative brakes you will gain energy back when going down hill.
 
Recent rumblings about the cybertruck. The first development is especially promising that puts it in a range for me that has serious towing utility.

1) 500+ range. What does that actually mean? At least one recent piece suggests that may even mean 600+.
insideevs.com

Tesla Cybertruck Screen Shows Range Of 620 Miles

Will the Tesla Cybertruck have a maximum range of 620 miles? This image from the Cybertruck's own display seems to suggest this figure is possible.
insideevs.com insideevs.com

2) While sad Porsche sits and whines about wanting a retest for their technology tour de force Taycan, scoring a *ahem* 201 mile range. Sure, I get that it's performance oriented. That's still pretty bad in that it's hauling around a heavy ~97kwh battery, and only getting right over 200 miles range? While current 100kwh battery Tesla's are hitting 373 mile range, in a bigger car with arguably comparable performance. Tesla's technology stack is formidable.

3) Ford is being bullied by a lowly Model X P100D. A lifted, built, and burly 4x4 F150 that is. Can't help but think Tesla purposely used a 4x2 F150 in the tug of war, and Ford and the internet has taken the bait.
 
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I never understood what a tug of war shows? its more about tires.....
 
krice118 said:
I never understood what a tug of war shows? its more about tires.....
Click to expand...

If it's a grippy surface, its even more about weight.
A lighter, rear-wheel drive truck is going to be pulled no matter how much power it has.
 
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In other interesting news. I read that Toyota is abandoning hydrogen for now in favor of a conversion to electric.
 
Markuson said:
If it's a grippy surface, its even more about weight.
A lighter, rear-wheel drive truck is going to be pulled no matter how much power it has.
Click to expand...
Elon has a flair for showmanship and his followers eat it up. I’m also on the Tesla forum every once in a while, More so before and when we first ours. I understand that here on Mud we drink the Toyota Kool aide but the Tesla crowd takes it to the level after the next level.
 
coleAK said:
In other interesting news. I read that Toyota is abandoning hydrogen for now in favor of a conversion to electric.
Click to expand...

Got a source for that? I was just having a conversation about this with a Toyota expert, and he was confident they were moving full steam ahead. Makes more sense for them to move to BEV instead of hydrogen fuel cells IMO.
 
coleAK said:
In other interesting news. I read that Toyota is abandoning hydrogen for now in favor of a conversion to electric.
Click to expand...

Bout time. Hydrogen was a good idea but the window of time has come and gone. There's still big hurdles to overcome in technology, consumer education, high pressure systems fueling/transport difficulties, vehicle complexity, infrastructure, to name a few. Fuel cell technology has been in development for decades with barely anything relevant, let alone competitive, today. Battery electric vehicles (BEV)s, with giant backers to accelerate the technology is leaving hydrogen behind.

Speed to charge directly with electrons will be at parity with gas shortly. With that, one of hydrogen's major perceived benefits is out the window. Yet EVs are already wholly better for the average commuter, as 95% of the charging happens at home without ever visiting a public station.

Coming back to EVs and Porsche's Taycan. It's unfortunate its efficiency is so dismal. The promise of 800V 350kw charging is practically of no benefit with the way it swills electrons. What good is faster charging, if it swills electrons almost 2x as fast as a Tesla. What matters to EVs is miles of range added per hour of charge - where efficiency matters. Here, Tesla is most definitely Porsche's daddy. And the rest of the EV competitive field.
 
TeCKis300 said:
Recent rumblings about the cybertruck. The first development is especially promising that puts it in a range for me that has serious towing utility.

1) 500+ range. What does that actually mean? At least one recent piece suggests that may even mean 600+.
insideevs.com

Tesla Cybertruck Screen Shows Range Of 620 Miles

Will the Tesla Cybertruck have a maximum range of 620 miles? This image from the Cybertruck's own display seems to suggest this figure is possible.
insideevs.com insideevs.com

2) While sad Porsche sits and whines about wanting a retest for their technology tour de force Taycan, scoring a *ahem* 201 mile range. Sure, I get that it's performance oriented. That's still pretty bad in that it's hauling around a heavy ~97kwh battery, and only getting right over 200 miles range? While current 100kwh battery Tesla's are hitting 373 mile range, in a bigger car with arguably comparable performance. Tesla's technology stack is formidable.

3) Ford is being bullied by a lowly Model X P100D. A lifted, built, and burly 4x4 F150 that is. Can't help but think Tesla purposely used a 4x2 F150 in the tug of war, and Ford and the internet has taken the bait.
Click to expand...



Why would you pick a Ford with those wheels and tires. Or anything else with those tires and wheels. Since they are doing irreverent challenges lets tow a bass boat 350 miles to a boat ramp and put it in the water. The Tesla and the Ford can both pull a 3500 pound trailer per the specs. That would be fun to watch
 
mcgaskins said:
Got a source for that? I was just having a conversation about this with a Toyota expert, and he was confident they were moving full steam ahead. Makes more sense for them to move to BEV instead of hydrogen fuel cells IMO.
Click to expand...
I have 3 long term rentals in KY that I lease through an agent that does temp housing for Toyota. One of my tenets (who is going back to Japan) I talked to last month said Toyota are backing off on hydrogen and majorly increasing hybrids as an intermediate step to full electric.

although it be far from a reliable source this was in USA Today the other day.
www.google.com

What's the future of the auto industry? Hydrogen cars appear to give way to electric

Even the biggest supporters of hydrogen vehicles are now turning to electric vehicles.
www.google.com
 
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