KDSS front sway bar off kilter (2 Viewers)

[drowzyGX]

Hey Rommel,

I think I’m gonna give that a try before buying anything else or taking it to a shop. Figure the 2 turns of the shutter valve that is recommended for the leveling procedure and the spacer install is sufficient?

If spacers can’t fix this, then I may talk to the shop and see if it’s possible to pull the KDSS pistons and weld in another fixed arm. Basically convert it to a regular sway bar.

kdss is just so expensive to work on that I’d rather spend the money to go non-kdss but keep sway bars if it’s possible / not an absolute fortune.

 

[Sky Soldier]

Hey Rommel,

I think I’m gonna give that a try before buying anything else or taking it to a shop. Figure the 2 turns of the shutter valve that is recommended for the leveling procedure and the spacer install is sufficient?

If spacers can’t fix this, then I may talk to the shop and see if it’s possible to pull the KDSS pistons and weld in another fixed arm. Basically convert it to a regular sway bar.

kdss is just so expensive to work on that I’d rather spend the money to go non-kdss but keep sway bars if it’s possible / not an absolute fortune.

I'm facing the same problem, I'll share any results.

 

[Mr Chuck Norris]

Hey Rommel,

I think I’m gonna give that a try before buying anything else or taking it to a shop. Figure the 2 turns of the shutter valve that is recommended for the leveling procedure and the spacer install is sufficient?

If spacers can’t fix this, then I may talk to the shop and see if it’s possible to pull the KDSS pistons and weld in another fixed arm. Basically convert it to a regular sway bar.

kdss is just so expensive to work on that I’d rather spend the money to go non-kdss but keep sway bars if it’s possible / not an absolute fortune.

Do the spacer, do the bleed/equalize procedure, and see what happens. I bet there will be some benefit.

 

[drowzyGX]

Fingers crossed. Only concern with the spacer is how big it is. I haven’t done measurements with the truck sitting level, but it looks much less than an inch off level.

looking at it up close, both of the rubber bushings on the sway bar are solidly in place, but it looks like they leave room for the bar to slide a bit.

with the bar jacked up and level, the space between the metal band and bushing on both sides is wider than the bushing for the mounting bracket. Not sure if that’s normal.

think I’ll start by dropping the bar again, removing the fixed rubber bushings, re-attaching them closer to the raised metal lip, re-attaching the bar with the kdss spacer. Then find a flat parking lot to do the kdss re-level. Do some laps in the lot with the bleeders cracked.

hope that fixes it. If it doesn’t, I’m gonna seriously look into having a shop weld in another fixed arm front and rear, and just going to a regular sway bar with extended links.

 

[rommelrommel]

I think the two turns should be fine.

If the problem is in the accumulator it’s not gonna be cheap.

 

[drowzyGX]

I think the two turns should be fine.

If the problem is in the accumulator it’s not gonna be cheap.

Yup - that one is pricey. If it’s the accumulator, then I’m gonna talk with some off-road shops in GA about trying to fab up mounts for a standard sway bar.

I’ve seen KDSS service start at $1500+ just to re-pressurize the system. If parts are bad, then paying to convert to standard sway bar (if possible) seems like the better option. No worries about future issues with kdss.

 

[Sky Soldier]

Can anyone add to this conversation as to ditching KDSS and installing a normal sway bar/torsion bar system.

 

[drowzyGX]

Can anyone add to this conversation as to ditching KDSS and installing a normal sway bar/torsion bar system.

i haven’t found anything on the specifics for a GX. There’s a thread on one of the 4runner forums that will show up in a google search. The gist of the thread is that custom fab work will be required front and rear, more so in the rear based on the axle, I think. Apparently the frames have different part numbers for kdss vs non kdss 4runners.

not sure how much of that applies to the GX

 

[Jstawgn]

KDSS is probably one of the most valuable characteristic that attract me to GX. Especially GX470. The first iteration of KDSS is the most true to the intention of the designer intent. The quicker steering ratio 15 VS 18 on 150 platform and the stiffer rear swaybar 33 vs 30 mm for 150 series, makes it a lot more fun to drive.

To remove KDSS is easy but the frame does not have regular swaybar threaded holes in the frame. You need to install rivnut or take the bumper and crashbar to be able to install the nut.

Rear axle does not have the regular swaybar bracket. You would need to weld the rear bracket for regular swaybar or anti rock swaybar.

I am still thinking the upper bushing on the fixed and cylinder are worn and allow more side shift. The fixed link are not that expensive to replace. Also lean was never mentioned, the angle of the bar seems more caused by the uneven ground.

 

[Sky Soldier]

KDSS is probably one of the most valuable characteristic that attract me to GX. Especially GX470. The first iteration of KDSS is the most true to the intention of the designer intent. The quicker steering ratio 15 VS 18 on 150 platform and the stiffer rear swaybar 33 vs 30 mm for 150 series, makes it a lot more fun to drive.

To remove KDSS is easy but the frame does not have regular swaybar threaded holes in the frame. You need to install rivnut or take the bumper and crashbar to be able to install the nut.

Rear axle does not have the regular swaybar bracket. You would need to weld the rear bracket for regular swaybar or anti rock swaybar.

I am still thinking the upper bushing on the fixed and cylinder are worn and allow more side shift. The fixed link are not that expensive to replace. Also lean was never mentioned, the angle of the bar seems more caused by the uneven ground.

I've had many 4WD's in my life, a 78 chevy SWB, 76 Bronco, CJ5, and CJ7 and none of them had any sway/torsion bars installed in them - and I never had a problem with stability and rolling over. I didn't push the stability of the vehicle.

 

[drowzyGX]

Oh tr

KDSS is probably one of the most valuable characteristic that attract me to GX. Especially GX470. The first iteration of KDSS is the most true to the intention of the designer intent. The quicker steering ratio 15 VS 18 on 150 platform and the stiffer rear swaybar 33 vs 30 mm for 150 series, makes it a lot more fun to drive.

To remove KDSS is easy but the frame does not have regular swaybar threaded holes in the frame. You need to install rivnut or take the bumper and crashbar to be able to install the nut.

Rear axle does not have the regular swaybar bracket. You would need to weld the rear bracket for regular swaybar or anti rock swaybar.

I am still thinking the upper bushing on the fixed and cylinder are worn and allow more side shift. The fixed link are not that expensive to replace. Also lean was never mentioned, the angle of the bar seems more caused by the uneven ground.

oh trust me - I am 100% a fan of the performance of KDSS. This truck handles better than it had any right to, especially for how tall it is.

exploring the removal route is mostly financial. Let’s say something is wrong with the kdss system - not just some bushings or other bits I can work on replacing at home - and it’s in the $1500+ range.

at that point, I’d rather have a 1 time fix. I think a standard sway bar with some end links, even its a custom job, would be a 1 time fix. With kdss, I run the risk of more issues because it’s operating out of factory spec (due to the lift).

it’s not a decision I’ll make lightly, and is why I feel really lucky to have a shop like ACC garage nearby as well as the input of folks on this forum.

 

[Mr Chuck Norris]

I've had many 4WD's in my life, a 78 chevy SWB, 76 Bronco, CJ5, and CJ7 and none of them had any sway/torsion bars installed in them - and I never had a problem with stability and rolling over. I didn't push the stability of the vehicle.

What do those have in common, that the GX doesn't have? Leaf springs. Most leaf spring suspension has inherent roll stability due to the higher roll center location which reduces body roll.

 

[Sky Soldier]

What do those have in common, that the GX doesn't have? Leaf springs. Most leaf spring suspension has inherent roll stability due to the higher roll center location which reduces body roll.

True. But is there that much instability with the GX chassis?

 

[Mr Chuck Norris]

True. But is there that much instability with the GX chassis?

It's not necessarily instability, it's the nature of suspension design. Most designers want a low roll center for on-road handling characteristics. This comes at the expense of body roll.

 

[drowzyGX]

random question but can anyone who isn’t having KDSS issues measure the distance between the rubber bushing collar and the raised metal lip on both sides of the sway bar?

trying to figure out if I need to remove both of mine and slide them closer or not.

2 hour drive today, mix of back roads and highway, and the bar hasn’t shifted any further than it did immediately after re-attaching. I think that’s a good sign, that it “settles” if that makes sense.

if I don’t need to adjust the bushing collars, then I’m gonna drop the sway bar once more tonight, crack the valves on the actuator, and do the treaty oak spacer install front and back.

if I do need to readjust the collars first, then I’ve gotta 1) remove the gray rtv without damaging the one bushing and 2) remove and re-attach both collars and give it 24 hours for the rtv to set.

 

[rommelrommel]

2.9 and 2.95” passenger and driver side respectively on mine.

 

[drowzyGX]

2.9 and 2.95” passenger and driver side respectively on mine.

Thank you! Is that from the outer edge of the rubber color to the outer edge of the metal lip? If so, my driver side is spot on at 2.875”. My passenger side collar is too wide out. I must have re-attached it further out. The gap on passenger side is 3.06”

driver side

 

[rommelrommel]

Yes, I put my calipers on it from the outside of the metal lip to the outside of the strapped down rubber thing. Mine are both quite tight up against the metal lip.

 

[drowzyGX]

Thanks Rommel!

from the pictures and measurements, I need to re-collar the passenger side and move it closer to the metal lip. Should be easy enough.

I’ll work on that this week. Re-attach with the treaty oak spacer kit, and do the the actuator “bleed” procedure that’s been described here (loosen the screws 2 turns, rock the truck, do a small loop around the neighborhood, let the truck settle, close everything).

hopefully this works and I can pivot back to the fun mods.

 

[Mr Chuck Norris]

Thanks Rommel!

from the pictures and measurements, I need to re-collar the passenger side and move it closer to the metal lip. Should be easy enough.

I’ll work on that this week. Re-attach with the treaty oak spacer kit, and do the the actuator “bleed” procedure that’s been described here (loosen the screws 2 turns, rock the truck, do a small loop around the neighborhood, let the truck settle, close everything).

hopefully this works and I can pivot back to the fun mods.

I think it will make an improvement. It's tough to balance modifications with the factory systems on these rigs... There is so much going on electronically (and hydraulically for KDSS) that we have to be careful to not upset.