Judgement Call Poll

[Living in the Past]

Posted by poseidon
If I got a note telling me that one of my LCs had a bad or missiing stabilizer I
would assume that the author needed to do his homework

Posted by Landpimp
fj40+ has always had em.

Who's right. My 1960 FJ25s and 1989 FJ62 have factory stabilizers and all the cruisers in between.

 

[Trapper50cal]

more thoughts

One thing we haven't addressed is the oversized tire situation.

None of these rigs were ever developed with the intent of throwing huge tires on them. (35"+) so the engineers didn't expect the kind of stresses that say, a set of 38's would apply towards the parts involved so it seems to me that a stabilizer would be a good part to have under those conditions. Am I wrong?
Any ASE mechanics want to chime in?

 

[RHINO]

i was ASE when i was wrenchin, but that doesnt really mean much here. maybe its changed but the ASE cert basically meant that you got training to diagnose and replace parts, not modify and customize stuff.


who is right? they both are. if your steering components and geometry is good you dont need the stabilizer to function properly. so, why you may ask did the factory install them?? to smooth the bumps felt in the steering wheel, and thats about it. by all means run a stabilizer, its a good thing to have, but dont BLAME the stabilizer (or lack thereof) for problems like death wobble.

 

[snailwagon]

I've driven my pig without one, and it was fine, sloppy worm gear and all. When I put on bigger tires it drove a bit different. Ended up with a stabilzer with much more dampening. All this really did was help from keeping my arm ripped off. Large rocks and manual steering can definetly benefit from dampening. I know most people have been driving at 3 mph and not holding onto the wheel too tight when the steering wheel whips loose and spins out of your hand.

 

[Mark W]

One thing we haven't addressed is the oversized tire situation.

None of these rigs were ever developed with the intent of throwing huge tires on them. (35"+) so the engineers didn't expect the kind of stresses that say, a set of 38's would apply towards the parts involved so it seems to me that a stabilizer would be a good part to have under those conditions. Am I wrong?
Any ASE mechanics want to chime in?

Sure.

As mentioned already, the stabilizer is not needed if your steering is in proper working order. If your steering is not in proper condition the stabilizer is just a bandaid, masking symptoms not correcting them. It has nothing to do with preventing normally occuring wobble while turning because the tires are fighting each other. They aren't, and wobble is never normal.

I never install a stabilizer after I do a PS conversion and/or stretch a wheel base. Don't need it and I'd rather not hide any problems anyway. Much better to notice them as soon as they try to reveal themselves.

Large tires? I'm running 39.5x18 boggers on my newest rig with Scout PS. No stabilizer, no need.

THe OEM Cruiser stabilizer is actually poorly located. By the time it damps out any impact to th steering system that impact has already affected four pivot points. A stabilizer on the tierod will do a better job.



Mark...

 

[lowenbrau]

THe OEM Cruiser stabilizer is actually poorly located. By the time it damps out any impact to th steering system that impact has already affected four pivot points. A stabilizer on the tierod will do a better job.
QUOTE]

There may be method in Toyota's madness. It turns out that in a sping under configuration, especially with lift (highly arched) springs. connecting the damper to the axle assembly rather than the frame may actully *increase* death wobble. Notice how the factory mounted to the frame on springunder rigs and the the axle on springover?

It's all theoretical at this point, based on one case study where *everything* was replaced while chasing a death wobble problem and the final fix was in the relocation of the damper.

Oh and as far as the poll goes... put a check for me next to the box that says "Hey Chickenlittle, go back to warning Explorer drivers about their Bridgestones"

 

[Mark W]

Interesting thought. That is, there being a purpose to the location of the damper... but the chicken little thought has merit too...

It occurs to me that mounting a damper between the axle and the frame could really help (or at least really help to mask) with death wobble.

Maybe have to try and see if I can make this work sometime. Just for the heck of it.


Mark...

 

[Greg_B]

[There may be method in Toyota's madness. It turns out that in a sping under configuration, especially with lift (highly arched) springs. connecting the damper to the axle assembly rather than the frame may actully *increase* death wobble. Notice how the factory mounted to the frame on springunder rigs and the the axle on springover?

It's all theoretical at this point, based on one case study where *everything* was replaced while chasing a death wobble problem and the final fix was in the relocation of the damper.

You talking about me and Poo Bruce? If so, I stand as the case that could not be solved...at least by me, and axle to tie-rod solved (masked) it for me.

I agree with everyone in theory that a steering damper should not be needed if all is okay...and then Poo happened...

Everything (read....everything) is either new or nearly new. Caster is +4.5 deg. Knuckle preload is 12-14lbs. Wheels/tires are balanced. Steering column has new u-joints. Custom OTT flatsteer with MOG ES150 TRE's. Steering box is tight. OTT pitman arm. Hit the front left tire in a pothole at 35-40mph and look out! Steering damper from frame to relay rod did nothing. The front end was apart and together so many times...new everything. Only thing that fixed it was a steering damper from axle to tie rod. 35x12.5 TXR on JDM aluminum rims. High lift (no sway bars needed...it is very stable) SUA, cut and turn, new springs, bushings, all attachment points ok...

Probably 4.5-5.5" lift or so...Dunno for sure.

I gave up...stable now...at any speed, logging roads, bumps, you name it...

gb

 

[Mark W]

ow I'm confused. It looks like Bruce is saying that the damper stopped death wobble when it was mounted factory style (relay rod to frame) but did not when mounted between the tie rod and the axle.

But greg seems to indicate the opposite?

Was it the same damper, or maybe a stiffer/larger one?

One of the guys here had a nasty set of 39s and some front end wear. Even with a damper he could hardly drive it. The bandaid that kept it going for a couple few weeks 'til he replaced the tires and serviced the front end was a dual damper (tie rod to axle in both cases).


Mark...

 

[Greg_B]

Was it the same damper, or maybe a stiffer/larger one?Mark...

Bruce...is there another one other there?

Mark...same damper. I in fact ran no damper for a while, then Petra complained to me one night about it almost shaking apart, and she had to stop...to make it stop. I took the truck for the next while and gave her my BJ74 (well, she tossed me the keys to the 60 and took the BJ74), then finally it happened to me...hit a bump, front left tire, drop of about 1", sharp edge...death wobble. I learned to watch my front left placement, and could avoid it while I looked, repacked, took shims out, had u-joints replaced, rotated tires...nothing helped...I could make it happen by hitting the front left hard, at the right speed. Finally tried a damper (Rancho 5000) in the stock location. Could still make it happen. Moved it to the axle/tie rod...gone.

I know I have missed something...I simply gave up as I had to drive it...and I was at wits end.

gb

 

[Greg_B]

No ideas?

gb

 

[oradventure]

my goodness never thought so maney pepole felt so strongly about a sterring stablizer but as a jeep owner you do not need it if all is well we run a 77 cj7 with 38s no stabilizer and its fine up to about 85 wich is plenty fast enuff its the wifes daily driver and if it had aney kind of aney thing i know about every night ill i fixed it or i took to long and she fixed it




pic of wife and jeep with no stabliser and trail fix sterring

 

[Trapper50cal]

Oh and as far as the poll goes... put a check for me next to the box that says "Hey Chickenlittle, go back to warning Explorer drivers about their Bridgestones"

There is a difference between percieved courtesy and being a pantywaste pessimist.

So suck it.

Oh and Lowenbrau is piss with a gold label

 

[Trapper50cal]

What's this then?

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Even if it isn't in the normal position, this is operating as a stabilizer, is it not?