xeuxaz
SILVER Star
I know the tundras have lots of documented cases. Surprised to see LX600s with the issue too. Have any members had experience with this on their LX600?
Japanese V35A-FTS Bearing Issues (7 Viewers)
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It is no surprise that a smaller displacement V6 engine with two turbos that produces more HP and 20% more torque is going to have more failure points than a low-stress, high-displacement V8. You can't bend the laws of chemical physics, no matter how good the metallurgy has become.
I don't have an LX600 but fell down this rabbit hole when I almost bought a '24 Tundra -
LS500:
us.lexusownersclub.com
300/LX600:
I'll be honest I don't speak any of these languages but through the power of google translate I can tell people aren't happy. I think I saw one commenter say something like "May God bring psychological distress to the engineer responsible for this" haha
This guy has several videos on it:
Here's what appears to be a new short block in front of an LX600:
According to a guy on a Tundra forum:
(post #263)
www.tundras.com
I ended up buying a '21 Tundra instead and I do like the GX550, fingers crossed the rollout is smoother than the Tundra has been.
LS500:
2018 LS500 on 2nd blown motor. - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion
LS - 5th Gen (2018-present) - 2018 LS500 on 2nd blown motor. - Hi everyone. I am new here on the LS side. I've usually been on the RC F side but haven't posted in awhile. Now to the point. My dad bought his 2018 LS500 F Sport AWD back in September '18. This past September around 21k miles, the...
www.clublexus.com
2018 LS500 AWD - Engine Malfunction at 44k miles
Greetings, In November 2021, I made the decision to acquire an LS500 from VRoom.com, boasting 19,000 miles. The initial allure of its features and amenities left a lasting impression. As the odometer ticked to 44,000 miles over the span of two years with routine maintenance every 7,500 miles, a n...
us.lexusownersclub.com
300/LX600:
I'll be honest I don't speak any of these languages but through the power of google translate I can tell people aren't happy. I think I saw one commenter say something like "May God bring psychological distress to the engineer responsible for this" haha
This guy has several videos on it:
Here's what appears to be a new short block in front of an LX600:
According to a guy on a Tundra forum:
OFFICIAL MY22+ Tundra/MY23+ Sequoia V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Discussion Thread
Yes, cam phasers. That's what I meant. Basically, a full timing chain job anyway. Or worse. On gen 1 3.5 11-16 Gen 2 3.5 17 up has two timing...
www.tundras.com
I ended up buying a '21 Tundra instead and I do like the GX550, fingers crossed the rollout is smoother than the Tundra has been.
I don't have an LX600 but fell down this rabbit hole when I almost bought a '24 Tundra -
LS500:
2018 LS500 on 2nd blown motor. - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion
LS - 5th Gen (2018-present) - 2018 LS500 on 2nd blown motor. - Hi everyone. I am new here on the LS side. I've usually been on the RC F side but haven't posted in awhile. Now to the point. My dad bought his 2018 LS500 F Sport AWD back in September '18. This past September around 21k miles, the...www.clublexus.com
2018 LS500 AWD - Engine Malfunction at 44k miles
Greetings, In November 2021, I made the decision to acquire an LS500 from VRoom.com, boasting 19,000 miles. The initial allure of its features and amenities left a lasting impression. As the odometer ticked to 44,000 miles over the span of two years with routine maintenance every 7,500 miles, a n...
300/LX600:
I'll be honest I don't speak any of these languages but through the power of google translate I can tell people aren't happy. I think I saw one commenter say something like "May God bring psychological distress to the engineer responsible for this" haha
This guy has several videos on it:
Here's what appears to be a new short block in front of an LX600:
According to a guy on a Tundra forum:
View attachment 3628217(post #263)
OFFICIAL MY22+ Tundra/MY23+ Sequoia V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Discussion Thread
Yes, cam phasers. That's what I meant. Basically, a full timing chain job anyway. Or worse. On gen 1 3.5 11-16 Gen 2 3.5 17 up has two timing...
I ended up buying a '21 Tundra instead and I do like the GX550, fingers crossed the rollout is smoother than the Tundra has been.
I would take most of Arab LC300 repair videos with huge grain of salt.
- All toyota deals in the GCC region offer a 3 years engine/ transmission warranty. Hence, you wouldn't typically see engines being taken apart someone's backyard or an amateur garage unless the OEM has rejected the warranty claim due to user error. You may argue that car dealers are greedy (which is true) but here we are talking about a Factory OEM warranty for a new car.
- LCs are probably the most popular SUV in the region (if not the most popular car). Hence, LC300 introduction was huge and it attracted massive attention. Hence, when broken LC300 started it show up, it quickly went viral on social media. Garage owners saw this as a massive "billboard" opportunity which is fine, but unfortunately alot of them were purely marketing driven and misled people in many different ways (e.g what is tbe root cause/ why this was rejected by OEM) which to be honest is an important context.
-the first video (engine disassembly) is a genuine and reliable source. The guy recording it is an authorised Toyota specialist working at a toyota dealership in Saudi Arabia. This guy has been a great asset as he document step by step OEM official guidelines ( which you see in some of his videos). In the first video, he doesn't really say the root cause, it's more like a reflection video of how the engine is put together. He then post a follow up video regarding the root cause and guess what.. a toyota Yaris oil filter was installed which caused the engine to jack up!. It appears that a lot of toyota oil filters have a compatible thread with V35A and hence when do an oil change at a rocky service shop, this is what you get. He then argue that even though they look the same, the oil flow in these units are technically different.
On a separate note (not relevant to the video), I think it's important that you know that turbo engines are relatively new to the region and it seems like V35A is a bit unique. When the LC300 started to show up in streets, all these rocky service shops that we have in the region though that this is just a typical Toyota engine and what was working for the previous generation will just work on the new one. A good example is oil viscosity. 20w40 has been the standard and the most commonly used oil grade in our region ( given how hot does it get here) which is compatible with almost all SUVs sold in the middle east. V35A uses much thinner grades by design and per OEM specs such as 5W-20. There has been a huge claims that almost all broken engines are mainly driven by choosing incompatible oil viscosity.
I really was just providing context as someone who's looking for the truth and I'm not denying or ignoring a potional issue with V35A. My takeaway is that V35A is very vulnerable to user errors. In my views, only time will tell and if we started to see engine revisions ( as a corrective action)in the future that could be an indication of something. But as of now, its really hard to objectively reach a conclusion.
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Yikes, I talked to a couple of alleged Toyota techs over on Reddit who both mentioned their respective dealerships having lots of issues with Tundra motors. Is there a single cause of issues you’ve come across?
I would take most of Arab LC300 repair videos with huge grain of salt.
- All toyota deals in the GCC region offer a 3 years engine/ transmission warranty. Hence, you wouldn't typically see engines being taken apart someone's backyard or an amateur garage unless the OEM has rejected the warranty claim due to user error. You may argue that car dealers are greedy (which is true) but here we are talking about a Factory OEM warranty for a new car.
- LCs are probably the most popular SUV in the region (if not the most popular car). Hence, LC300 introduction was huge and it attracted massive attention. Hence, when broken LC300 started it show up, it quickly went viral on social media. Garage owners saw this as a massive "billboard" opportunity which is fine, but unfortunately alot of them were purely marketing driven and misled people in many different ways (e.g what is tbe root cause/ why this was rejected by OEM) which to be honest is an important context.
-the first video (engine disassembly) is a genuine and reliable source. The guy recording it is an authorised Toyota specialist working at a toyota dealership in Saudi Arabia. This guy has been a great asset as he document step by step OEM official guidelines ( which you see in some of his videos). In the first video, he doesn't really say the root cause, it's more like a reflection video of how the engine is put together. He then post a follow up video regarding the root cause and guess what.. a toyota Yaris oil filter was installed which caused the engine to jack up!. It appears that a lot of toyota oil filters have a compatible thread with V35A and hence when do an oil change at a rocky service shop, this is what you get. He then argue that even though they look the same, the oil flow in these units are technically different.
On a separate note (not relevant to the video), I think it's important that you know that turbo engines are relatively new to the region and it seems like V35A is a bit unique. When the LC300 started to show up in streets, all these rocky service shops that we have in the region though that this is just a typical Toyota engine and what was working for the previous generation will just work on the new one. A good example is oil viscosity. 20w40 has been the standard and the most commonly used oil grade in our region ( given how hot does it get here) which is compatible with almost all SUVs sold in the middle east. V35A uses much thinner grades by design and per OEM specs such us 5W-20. There has been a huge claims that almost all broken engines are mainly driven buy choosing incompatible oil viscosity.
I really was just providing context as someone who's looking for the truth and I'm not denying or ignoring a potional issue with V35A. My takeaway is that V35A is very vulnerable to user errors. In my views, only time will tell and if we started to see engine revisions ( as a corrective action)in the future that could be an indication of something. But as of now, its really hard to objectively reach a conclusion.
I appreciate the insights, that all makes sense. Very similar to all the US 5.7 Tundra owners clowning on the broken V35A Tundras at every chance they can get.
I don't speak the language so it's hard to sift through the info and discern truth from all these videos. Would you say that earlier engines, the GR for example, stood up better to the maintenance habits of the middle east? Or maybe those engines are just more forgiving for people who don't want to follow manufacturer specs exactly?
It's interesting, in the US, the problem is different - most Tundra owners who have reported V35A failures have mostly had their vehicles maintained properly at the dealership.
The single biggest issue seems to be the crank bearing.
First it was the turbos/wastegate:
2022+ Gen 3 Turbocharger Failure List.
The purpose of this threat is to track Gen 3 2022+ model year Tundra’s that have turbocharger failures. Please keep posts brief and factual with the...
www.tundras.com
It seemed like that got fixed early on in '22/'23. But then people kept having engine failures and the main cause was crank bearing failure:
3.4 I-Force engine failures.
This has been a heated debate on here and I wanted to see some statistics on some of these failures. I will update the member list in the original...
www.tundras.com
2022 Tundra Engine Failure
I bought a 2022 Tundra Limited with TRD Off Road package. Have just over 19,000 miles on it. Never been off road yet. Had it serviced at dealer every...
www.tundras.com
They have about 50 confirmed cases in a forum of 4500. If you feel like reading more there's pages and pages:
OFFICIAL MY22+ Tundra/MY23+ Sequoia V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Discussion Thread
There is a sticky to post information on your engine failures that we are not supposed to turn into a discussion thread. Today, I inadvertently...
www.tundras.com
But to be honest there's not too much valuable to be gained from all that reading. It's a roller coaster, you've got guys who apparently have "inside knowledge" claiming that Toyota fixed it early on... and it was a single factory worker in AL who messed up... Toyota forgot to clean out manufacturing debris from the blocks... it was all fixed in early '23 and all the later trucks will be fine... etc.
Nobody really knows and Toyota hasn't said anything. And I've seen a couple '24s with engine failures already so it seems like a lot of the speculation is driven by guys who are hoping their trucks will be fine. Other than that, it's just 2nd gen/5.7L guys showing up to make fun of the 3rd gen guys haha. And others claim that it's statistically insignificant.
Which might be true, Toyota sells around 100K trucks in the US per year. So I think that if you roll the dice and buy one you'll probably be fine. Personally I do all my service at home and don't really like going to the dealer so I decided to go with a 2nd gen Tundra. It wasn't an easy decision as I really liked the new truck - smooth, powerful, great interior, looks good (imo)
Oh and if engine failure isn't enough, this forum has compiled a list of all the other issues:
OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra (HV) - Known Issues - Major/Minor - UPDATED MAR 2, 2024
UPDATED: MARCH 2, 2024 @ 3:45pm Central This has been on my list for a little while and now that Tim (@testerdahl) has joined the forum, he had asked...
www.tundras.com
I would argue GR is better at tolerating poor maintenance. As mentioned before, there are few things that makes me believe that the V35A is a more complex design and hence vulnerable if not maintenaned correctly.I appreciate the insights, that all makes sense. Very similar to all the US 5.7 Tundra owners clowning on the broken V35A Tundras at every chance they can get.
I don't speak the language so it's hard to sift through the info and discern truth from all these videos. Would you say that earlier engines, the GR for example, stood up better to the maintenance habits of the middle east? Or maybe those engines are just more forgiving for people who don't want to follow manufacturer specs exactly?
It's interesting, in the US, the problem is different - most Tundra owners who have reported V35A failures have mostly had their vehicles maintained properly at the dealership.
The single biggest issue seems to be the crank bearing.
First it was the turbos/wastegate:
2022+ Gen 3 Turbocharger Failure List.
The purpose of this threat is to track Gen 3 2022+ model year Tundra’s that have turbocharger failures. Please keep posts brief and factual with the...
It seemed like that got fixed early on in '22/'23. But then people kept having engine failures and the main cause was crank bearing failure:
3.4 I-Force engine failures.
This has been a heated debate on here and I wanted to see some statistics on some of these failures. I will update the member list in the original...
2022 Tundra Engine Failure
I bought a 2022 Tundra Limited with TRD Off Road package. Have just over 19,000 miles on it. Never been off road yet. Had it serviced at dealer every...
They have about 50 confirmed cases in a forum of 4500. If you feel like reading more there's pages and pages:
OFFICIAL MY22+ Tundra/MY23+ Sequoia V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Discussion Thread
There is a sticky to post information on your engine failures that we are not supposed to turn into a discussion thread. Today, I inadvertently...
But to be honest there's not too much valuable to be gained from all that reading. It's a roller coaster, you've got guys who apparently have "inside knowledge" claiming that Toyota fixed it early on... and it was a single factory worker in AL who messed up... Toyota forgot to clean out manufacturing debris from the blocks... it was all fixed in early '23 and all the later trucks will be fine... etc.
Nobody really knows and Toyota hasn't said anything. And I've seen a couple '24s with engine failures already so it seems like a lot of the speculation is driven by guys who are hoping their trucks will be fine. Other than that, it's just 2nd gen/5.7L guys showing up to make fun of the 3rd gen guys haha. And others claim that it's statistically insignificant.
Which might be true, Toyota sells around 100K trucks in the US per year. So I think that if you roll the dice and buy one you'll probably be fine. Personally I do all my service at home and don't really like going to the dealer so I decided to go with a 2nd gen Tundra. It wasn't an easy decision as I really liked the new truck - smooth, powerful, great interior, looks good (imo)
Oh and if engine failure isn't enough, this forum has compiled a list of all the other issues:
OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra (HV) - Known Issues - Major/Minor - UPDATED MAR 2, 2024
UPDATED: MARCH 2, 2024 @ 3:45pm Central This has been on my list for a little while and now that Tim (@testerdahl) has joined the forum, he had asked...
- I feel like Toyota put more effort into designing GR engines for our region. They are more (purpose-built) than the V35A. If you take the 1GR-FE 4.0 petrol engine as an example, it has been offered in the Land Cruiser Prado since 2003. It made its way to the FJ, 70 series, the LC200, and now the LC300. Even though the one on the LC300 is a refreshed version with more power, fuel efficiency, and dual VVT, the old 2003 variant is still in production and being featured in the 70 series 2024 models! In our region, the 70 series is widely used in remote locations (especially in Saudi Arabia). Toyota knows this, and that's why they overbuilt this engine to tolerate dirty fuels, oils, and even heat! They knew fuel grades are bad in remote areas, and there is no authorized Toyota dealer in the mesmerizing Empty Quarter! As you know, turbo engines will struggle to meet each criteria that I just mentioned, and it's by design. And to be honest, these are trade-offs that are given, and Toyota engineers went for it. If I would picture this somehow, I would say it feels like the GR engines had more endurance headroom to break the rules.
From personal experience, this also resonate with me. My father ( who is a senior gentleman) daily drive an 2008 first batch LC200 with a 1GR. He never goes for service as I'm the one who usually do it for him.. to be honest, i don't recall I ever took his car and it's was not way overdue for oil change!! I also own a 2012 LC200 Dual VVT 1GR.. even though my maintenance schedule is extremely conservative and ovekill. In the past 11 years of ownership, my car only went for dealership service 8 times . I felt confident enough to explore and test all lubricants without really paying attention to what the OEM recommends (which to be frank, a very common behaviour in our region). On my new LC300 GRS 23", I don't really feel confident to take the risk "yet" . Hence, my plan is to continue doing the service at the dealership until my warranty expires
. Again, this is my personal experience only with 2 vehicles which is not a relevant sample size. In the same time, the V35A is a new platform "in general" and it's a bit early to say as majority of the population are not having issues "yet"
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I’ll take my 2UZ for the rest of my life.
High efficiency and high performance are synonyms for “not as reliable or durable”
From washing machines that try to wash your clothes with 10oz of water, to complex FI engines.
No. Thank. You.
High efficiency and high performance are synonyms for “not as reliable or durable”
From washing machines that try to wash your clothes with 10oz of water, to complex FI engines.
No. Thank. You.
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
Sure…
This is a hypothesis based on high performance engine oil feed systems and the oil related main and rod bearing failures seen on another Toyota engine, the FA series (GR86/BRZ). A high performance engine with a properly designed oil system should always feed the main and rod bearings first. This is called priority main oiling. The mains and rods see the most load and produce the most heat, thus, they need more pressure and flow volume than any other part of the engine, they take priority. Interruptions in flow here, even briefly, and the results can be devastating, wiping out a bearing(s) gradually, or quickly if the drop off is long enough.
The FA engine in the GR86 is seeing similar failures to the V35A. As far as I have read, these failures have been determined to be partially caused by a non-priority oiling system. The FA engine feeds the left cylinder head first, then the main oil gallery. So, when the car sees high performance/high g-forces, the sloshing oil in the pan can interrupt oil pickup, and oil feed to the pump is briefly reduced. The left head, being first in line, takes its share of oil, and with flow dropping off, the main gallery, second in line, does’t receive what is required. Boom.
The V35A-FTS is quite similar to the FA in that it has a non priority oil feed. Looking at this V35A timing cover from behind, the oil path and feed order is easily seen. Starting at the lower right, oil feeds into the oil pump. It then travels across the lower cover where it feeds out to, and then back in from the oil filter. The blue circles show the galleries being fed. First in line is the gallery for the left bank oil cooling jets, and possibly the turbocharger (I need to study the system more). Then, second, up top, is the main gallery, which feeds the crank/rods and the up to the heads. Last, a third gallery for right side jets and turbo.
Does the V35A have an issue here? Maybe those oil jets crack open at just the wrong wrong time? The above is just a guess.
This is a hypothesis based on high performance engine oil feed systems and the oil related main and rod bearing failures seen on another Toyota engine, the FA series (GR86/BRZ). A high performance engine with a properly designed oil system should always feed the main and rod bearings first. This is called priority main oiling. The mains and rods see the most load and produce the most heat, thus, they need more pressure and flow volume than any other part of the engine, they take priority. Interruptions in flow here, even briefly, and the results can be devastating, wiping out a bearing(s) gradually, or quickly if the drop off is long enough.
The FA engine in the GR86 is seeing similar failures to the V35A. As far as I have read, these failures have been determined to be partially caused by a non-priority oiling system. The FA engine feeds the left cylinder head first, then the main oil gallery. So, when the car sees high performance/high g-forces, the sloshing oil in the pan can interrupt oil pickup, and oil feed to the pump is briefly reduced. The left head, being first in line, takes its share of oil, and with flow dropping off, the main gallery, second in line, does’t receive what is required. Boom.
The V35A-FTS is quite similar to the FA in that it has a non priority oil feed. Looking at this V35A timing cover from behind, the oil path and feed order is easily seen. Starting at the lower right, oil feeds into the oil pump. It then travels across the lower cover where it feeds out to, and then back in from the oil filter. The blue circles show the galleries being fed. First in line is the gallery for the left bank oil cooling jets, and possibly the turbocharger (I need to study the system more). Then, second, up top, is the main gallery, which feeds the crank/rods and the up to the heads. Last, a third gallery for right side jets and turbo.
Does the V35A have an issue here? Maybe those oil jets crack open at just the wrong wrong time? The above is just a guess.
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Saw too many videos and articles about this on more common vehicle variants like Tundra. Definitely a lot of issues on the new trucks and they look like they haven't really fixed it.
Smaller engine size, two turbos and more complex engine design, 2 less cylinders, plus the fact that the Bearing is held down by one large metal assembly piece instead of individual smaller metal clamp pieces bolted down with 6 bolts (tolerance design issues), these are all factors leading to less reliable design than a NA V8.
If the main bearing fails, just replacing that and the associated components may not be the end. Opening a whole truck removing the engine and tearing apart the engine and replacing the parts can introduce other potential issues if the mechanic is not doing it right relative to a new engine being built in JAPAN Toyota's own factory (where LC's are made), per their rigid specs. Lots of variables there and rolling the dice when dealing with random mechanics working on the clock on heart surgery. And the failure bearing point can also cause weakening of other parts in the system, which may not be pronounced during the time of failure but may intro other issues further down the road. If I dropped 6 figures on a new truck and found out it needed 30-40K USD in repairs (covered under warranty of course but nontheless), and not being able to drive my car for 3 months, and got a "refurbished" car back after the repairs.... I'd be quite upset.
All in all, not confident about buying a V6 turbo to replace my V8's yet until they show the real root cause and improvement.
Smaller engine size, two turbos and more complex engine design, 2 less cylinders, plus the fact that the Bearing is held down by one large metal assembly piece instead of individual smaller metal clamp pieces bolted down with 6 bolts (tolerance design issues), these are all factors leading to less reliable design than a NA V8.
If the main bearing fails, just replacing that and the associated components may not be the end. Opening a whole truck removing the engine and tearing apart the engine and replacing the parts can introduce other potential issues if the mechanic is not doing it right relative to a new engine being built in JAPAN Toyota's own factory (where LC's are made), per their rigid specs. Lots of variables there and rolling the dice when dealing with random mechanics working on the clock on heart surgery. And the failure bearing point can also cause weakening of other parts in the system, which may not be pronounced during the time of failure but may intro other issues further down the road. If I dropped 6 figures on a new truck and found out it needed 30-40K USD in repairs (covered under warranty of course but nontheless), and not being able to drive my car for 3 months, and got a "refurbished" car back after the repairs.... I'd be quite upset.
All in all, not confident about buying a V6 turbo to replace my V8's yet until they show the real root cause and improvement.
And yet...
Just drove a 2019 LC200 with 30k miles. After 10 miles of driving (mixture of highway, in town), got 11mpg. Engine was far more sluggish.
My LX600 gets 15-18 in similar circumstances, and the refinement and acceleration are palpable. I get it, new engine and all, time will tease out the problems (5.7 has a very few of those too), but this engine really is a major jump forward in technology. I love mine.
Just drove a 2019 LC200 with 30k miles. After 10 miles of driving (mixture of highway, in town), got 11mpg. Engine was far more sluggish.
My LX600 gets 15-18 in similar circumstances, and the refinement and acceleration are palpable. I get it, new engine and all, time will tease out the problems (5.7 has a very few of those too), but this engine really is a major jump forward in technology. I love mine.
About those "chips"
Toyota Recalls Certain Model Year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX Vehicles - Toyota USA Newsroom
PLANO, Texas (May 30, 2024)—Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain model year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX (conventional gas model only) vehicles in North America. Approximately, 102,000 Toyota and Lexus branded vehicles are involved in this recall […]
Same engine in the upcoming GX550. So they’re saying it was a manufacturing issue and not an intrinsic problem to the motor? But that’s 100,000 vehicles built in both Japan and Mexico/USA…About those "chips"
Toyota Recalls Certain Model Year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX Vehicles - Toyota USA Newsroom
PLANO, Texas (May 30, 2024)—Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain model year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX (conventional gas model only) vehicles in North America. Approximately, 102,000 Toyota and Lexus branded vehicles are involved in this recall […]pressroom.toyota.com
xeuxaz
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #18
What about the documented 2024 models with the issue? Heh.About those "chips"
Toyota Recalls Certain Model Year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX Vehicles - Toyota USA Newsroom
PLANO, Texas (May 30, 2024)—Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain model year 2022-2023 Toyota Tundra and Lexus LX (conventional gas model only) vehicles in North America. Approximately, 102,000 Toyota and Lexus branded vehicles are involved in this recall […]
I don't know what data they are using to isolate it to certain production dates but the chips post machining were discovered and machining processes (and cleaning) modified at some point.
