Build Isuzu 4HE1TC into FJ62

[astr]

If the flex plate turns out being too low, maybe it could be mounted in the fan position. I would imagine that the belts would be able to transfer the energy to the crank?

No, they won't.

Only if you change over to some sort of cog belt drive.

Kinda spendy and a PITA, but could be made to work.

ASTR, is there a smaller flexplate that will mesh with that starter?

I know it wouldn't work with that bracket, but could be a potential solution if the flexplate you have winds up with ground clearance "issues".

From my initial measurements, it will be close so I'm hoping that just raising the front of the engine an inch or two will be the most that is necessary. Another alternative would be to reposition the axle slightly forward or maybe use an offset tie rod. I don't like the last option.

As John Smith stated, I don't think that moving the flexplate up to the water pump would work as the belts wouldn't carry the starter torque, certainly not reliably anyway. Also, even though the flex plate isn't that heavy, it is heavier than the fan so it would stress the water pump bearings more.

Nexxussuian: I've considered a smaller flex plate but then it wouldn't stick out far enough to engege the starter. I really can't move the starter any closer to the block to accomodate a smaller flex plate.

How long is the 4HE1TC compared to the 3FE? It's 4 cylinders vs 6, so the engine is probably shorter. Is it also lighter? I'm wondering if the 4H engine is shorter than the 3FE if things can be moved forward far enough so that the starter clears the tunnel?

I gain about 4.5" of additional clearance because of the reduced length of the 4HE1 as compared to the 3FE, however, I'm reluctant to move the 4HE1 forward as it is a heavy engine and it may have a negative effect on handling. Besides, I'm reserving the extra space up front for the intercooler.

Don't know the numbers but I can pretty much guarantee you it is much heavier - diesel engines are always heavier because they are built stronger to be able to withstand the compression that is necessary for the engine to function. Remember, the only thing that causes the cylinders to cycle is the compression created by the piston moving upwards, causing the fuel to ignite under said pressure.

The 4HE1 weighs 907 lbs dry with starter, alternator, ps pump and A/C compressor. Don't know what the 3FE weighs.

 

[slcfj62]

Well, so much for the Internet being the fountain of all knowledge. I can't find a reliable source for what a 3FE weighs. If the 4HE1 is more than a few pounds heavier, you are going to need some beefier springs in the front.

I did find that the 2F engine is heavier than the 3FE. The older FJ60s had a shorter transmission than the A440F (H42) and a heavier engine than the 3FE, which means that the center of gravity was farther forward in an older fJ60 (prior to 1985) than in an FJ62. So, it probably won't change your handling characteristics if you move the 4H engine forward. It's amazing that the 4HE1 weighs over 100 pounds more than the Ford 6.0 diesel engine.

 

[astr]

Well, so much for the Internet being the fountain of all knowledge. I can't find a reliable source for what a 3FE weighs. If the 4HE1 is more than a few pounds heavier, you are going to need some beefier springs in the front.

I did find that the 2F engine is heavier than the 3FE. The older FJ60s had a shorter transmission than the A440F (H42) and a heavier engine than the 3FE, which means that the center of gravity was farther forward in an older fJ60 (prior to 1985) than in an FJ62. So, it probably won't change your handling characteristics if you move the 4H engine forward. It's amazing that the 4HE1 weighs over 100 pounds more than the Ford 6.0 diesel engine.

I think the front of the 2F engine is in the same place as the front of the 3FE but with the shorter transmission behind the 2F, the rear cross member is further forward on the FJ60 than on the FJ62.

I will weigh the 3FE when I pull it and post the actual weight.

 

[mudmud]

Hi there, I was starting to think of an Isuzu FJ40 conversion with automatic back at the 1st of the year, so 5 month later I've found a 93 GMC with and automatic, I've not kept up lately and have forgotten much of what I was reading earlier.... What would I need to do for this conversion to happen? Will the transmission that comes with this be useful or convertible like what you are doin? I guess I would handle the 4 wheel drive connection with a transfer case? Advanced Adapters maybe?

Thanks for your time.
Carl

 

[astr]

Hi there, I was starting to think of an Isuzu FJ40 conversion with automatic back at the 1st of the year, so 5 month later I've found a 93 GMC with and automatic, I've not kept up lately and have forgotten much of what I was reading earlier.... What would I need to do for this conversion to happen? Will the transmission that comes with this be useful or convertible like what you are doin? I guess I would handle the 4 wheel drive connection with a transfer case? Advanced Adapters maybe?

Thanks for your time.
Carl

The 4HE1 engine that this thread addresses is a totally different engine with a different set of problems than the 4BD2 that came in the 93 GMC. The transmissions are different also and non-interchangeable. I would suggest that you check these threads out as they will better address the problems that you will encounter: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/128585-isuzu-4bd1t-swap.html https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/396516-4bd1t-isuzu-going-into-fj.html https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/400148-journey-begins.html You may also want to check out this site for excellent engine-specific info: Isuzu 4BD1T/2T

 

[mudmud]

I appreciate the info links, I'll check them out, great job on yours so far! I follow your build!
Thanks again!

 

[mudmud]

I looked thru the links, seemed they were manual transmissions mostly....

One last question tho... do you have a bit more info on the auto transmission that comes with this 93, will it be problematic trying to make my FJ-40 4 wheel drive? I know there's not much room to work with but will I need to go with a different tranny? It seem like it would be much better to keep that engine/tranny combo together!

Your expertice is appreciated!!

 

[Nexxussian]

The Jatco isn't a bad trans, they get a bad rap because the trucks they came in were not only abused beyond belief, the maintenance intervals seem to have been ignored on alot f them.

It still amazes me that the one I have works at all, the countertop place that had it used to haul granite with it ('94 NPR), I don't know what a 12' X 4' X 6' block of granite weighs, but I'm sure it's several orders of magnitude over GVWR.

An aux trans cooler, and an external filter seems to help.

The filter I'm using crosses to the spin on the Allisons use.

Not that you should ever have to worry about it in something that light.
​

 

[Dougal]

A 12x4x8 block of granite would be around 22 tons. Surely not. But I bet they tried.

I know of a little 3 ton NPR (3.3 litre 4BC2, 5 speed) which pulled itself with 5 ton of lime and a dead car towing a monstrous horse up some hills. Total weight around 12 ton.

 

[Nexxussian]

I expect not, but the story I got when I asked how heavy they loaded it was "everything to do the job, or until we couldn't fit anymore".

The size was an estimate on my part of what the maximum size they would physically be able to cram through the back door.

Of course placing finished countertops in there, they could have physically fitted more, but I doubt it (I mean c'mon, eventually even a twit has to be concerned that the tires look completely flat at max inflation, or am I giving twit's too much credit?).

 

[astr]

I looked thru the links, seemed they were manual transmissions mostly....

One last question tho... do you have a bit more info on the auto transmission that comes with this 93, will it be problematic trying to make my FJ-40 4 wheel drive? I know there's not much room to work with but will I need to go with a different tranny? It seem like it would be much better to keep that engine/tranny combo together!

Your expertice is appreciated!!

You could certainly use the Jatco transmission with a divorced T-case but do you have enough wheelbase to accommodate such a long drive train?

 

[AppleTech]

Just thought I'd share this new (to the US) Isuzu motor. 3.0L with a forward facing starter

Isuzu Commercial Vehicles - Low Cab Forward Trucks - Commercial Vehicles - 4JJ1-TC 3.0L Diesel Engines

Probably really expensive still but thought I'd share!

-Phil

 

[Dougal]

Just thought I'd share this new (to the US) Isuzu motor. 3.0L with a forward facing starter

Isuzu Commercial Vehicles - Low Cab Forward Trucks - Commercial Vehicles - 4JJ1-TC 3.0L Diesel Engines

Probably really expensive still but thought I'd share!

-Phil

That engine is sold in the rest of the world in a D-max ute. The ute is a close relation to a chevy of some kind, but the engine is Isuzu:
Isuzu Utes in New Zealand : Isuzu D-Max LS Double Cab

 

[Nexxussian]

That engine is sold in the rest of the world in a D-max ute. The ute is a close relation to a chevy of some kind, but the engine is Isuzu:
Isuzu Utes in New Zealand : Isuzu D-Max LS Double Cab

That appears to be the Isuzu variant of the Colorado (Chev) / Canyon (GMC).

I forget what the Isuzu badged unit is called here.

I would love it if that diesel were available for on road use stateside, might even have to buy one (likely have to save up for a year for the downpayment though ).

 

[syche]

Hi all

I am following up this thread sicne i also look at this engine for a conversion in China on a lc80 or others.

This engine got nice specs and is available brand new for a 1/4 of the price of a toyota engine.

Just need to find the right way to deal with this starter issue.

I am not a big fan of having the flex plate and starter in the front hanging free as dirt, mud and small stones from gravel road and track will just bring a lot of problems.

I am looking forward to read you on the driving feeling of this engine, smooth as a toy engine? shacky, noisy like a 4bt?
if it comes up to be a nice sweet and powerful engine, i would push forward to make a few casted bell housing down here with possible room for the starter

Keep up

 

[AppleTech]

Astr,

Not sure if this has been discussed or thought about, but what about using the rear housing from a 6HK1? It looks like it uses a forward-facing starter from these photos I found on Ebay. Now, I'm sure the bolt pattern is an SAE one, as this motor is installed in various large trucks. But I believe the 6HK1 and 4HK1/4HE1 share architecture, no?

Discuss...

 

[AppleTech]

Found another photo of the started location on a 6HE1 (lower left).

 

[astr]

Found another photo of the started location on a 6HE1 (lower left).

I think you are right - you could swap the flywheel housing from a 6HE1 to a 4HE1 and then use a forward-mounted starter. I know that this has been discussed somewhere before.

PROS: 1) Starter interference with firewall problem solved. 2) Use all OEM parts 3) SAE bolt pattern provides more transmission options.

CONS: 1) New starter location may interfere with passenger-side drop drive shafts such as those on a LC. 2) Probably can't use with the Aisin AW450 transmission which can be made to mate with the split LC T-case. 3) Unless you can locate a blown 6HE1 for the parts, I suspect that buying the pieces from Isuzu will cost a fortune. 4) Swapping over the flywheel housing is more involved than swapping one on the 4BD series engines as all the timing gears are contained within the housing.

This would be a good approach if someone wanted to use an SAE-compatible transmission.

Looking at your picture, I'm wondering what that thing is mounted just above the starter opening. This is where the power steering pump is located on the 4HE1. It looks like a right angle drive and some sort of pump or maybe an air compressor for air brakes. I wonder if that could be mounted on the 4HE1 instead of the P/S pump?

Took a closer look and answered my own question. Looks like on the 6HE1, there are four mounting bolts whereas on the 4HE1 there are only two for the P/S pump.

...I am not a big fan of having the flex plate and starter in the front hanging free as dirt, mud and small stones from gravel road and track will just bring a lot of problems

I agree and this is my biggest concern. I'm hoping that I can add a shield below the flex plate to protect it from debris.

 

[doug720]

Just an observation and I have never seen the 6HK1 engine in person, but it looks like the spacing of 2 of the bolts (at angle) on the air pump and two studs on the starter are about the same distance apart?

The housing looks about the same thickness and maybe an adapter could be made? It would raise the starter up, but, possible turbo/exhaust clearance issues.

Just an idea. Carry on with your adventures...

Doug

 

[AppleTech]

Just an observation and I have never seen the 6HK1 engine in person, but it looks like the spacing of 2 of the bolts (at angle) on the air pump and two studs on the starter are about the same distance apart?

The housing looks about the same thickness and maybe an adapter could be made? It would raise the starter up, but, possible turbo/exhaust clearance issues.

Just an idea. Carry on with your adventures...

Doug

An idea but remember the starter drives the flywheel. The pump in the above picture is driven by the timing gears (not enough reduction for the starter).

-Phil