Finding anything M12 fine has been a challenge, if your suppler has some that would be great. I think they are M12 x 1.25 if I'm not mistaken.
Isuzu 4BD1T swap part II : now w/ A440F auto
- Thread starter longbow
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Just a thought.... are you sure there is no taper in the flange you are measuring..... hence the slight variations.....
I just found some regular cap head Grade 12.9 M12 x 1.25 x 30 screws. My adapter at the moment is thicker than Don's original design (1") so I maybe able to get away with the larger head.
I'm going to get a friend with a 2D plotter to print out the the A440 side of the adapter so I can double check hole spacing and figment.
Don I'll try measuring the pump as you described, should be able to get it close enough. I did find a very nice 12" vernier calliper on Ebay but its $100 I do not want to spend at the moment.
I'm going to get a friend with a 2D plotter to print out the the A440 side of the adapter so I can double check hole spacing and figment.
Don I'll try measuring the pump as you described, should be able to get it close enough. I did find a very nice 12" vernier calliper on Ebay but its $100 I do not want to spend at the moment.
cruiserbrett
GOLD Star
Jeremy,
WRT the 1" thick adapter, check carefully about fitment of the adapter and the Isuzu bellhousing when the TC is installed. Sooner or later too thick an adapter is going to push the Isuzu bell into the area where the donut part of the TC rides. Because the Isuzu bell is so much bigger, I don't imagine it will be a prob at 1" thick- I hadn't gotten that far along in the design fitment area...
There are (2) 10mm dowel pin locations on my A440F case, just not used since there is no provisions in the bellhousing. So, I will address this in the revamped design.
WRT the 1" thick adapter, check carefully about fitment of the adapter and the Isuzu bellhousing when the TC is installed. Sooner or later too thick an adapter is going to push the Isuzu bell into the area where the donut part of the TC rides. Because the Isuzu bell is so much bigger, I don't imagine it will be a prob at 1" thick- I hadn't gotten that far along in the design fitment area...
There are (2) 10mm dowel pin locations on my A440F case, just not used since there is no provisions in the bellhousing. So, I will address this in the revamped design.
Yes, I have been a bit worried about that. I'm keeping my eye on it and hope I can get away with the 1" thickness (actually .90"). Very interested to see what you find with the dowels. In all honesty I would think using them in this application maybe a good idea since we are seeing variance in the pump diameters. So instead of using the pump to centre it we are using the dowels and hopefully no variance from one to the other. I will take a look at my A440F (FJ80) tonight and see if they are the same. I'll go over the A440F bolt spacing this weekend and get that 2D printed copy made so we can make sure that is correct.
Glad we are all sorting this out now
cruiserbrett
GOLD Star
So, after hours pouring through various websites, the ONLY reduced height bolts in any form I can find are from ARP of course. As in their flywheel/flexplate lineup. LOTS of 12mm x 1.25 bolts.
So, based on adapter thickness, I think for an adapter in the .550" range a 203-2801 bolt will be best.
JEGS 203-2801
Thicker adapter can go towards:
147-2802
So, based on adapter thickness, I think for an adapter in the .550" range a 203-2801 bolt will be best.
JEGS 203-2801
Thicker adapter can go towards:
147-2802
Nice find. I ended up getting a few M12 X 1.25 X 30mm cap head bolts Grade 12.9. My adapter is going to be .90" overall thick and I think I can get the .04" head of the cap screw to sit in there. If the head it to thick I can machine off a bit of the hight. Got 8 of them for $15 at a local Fastenel dealer.
USA made
M12X1.25X30MM
7MM head thickness
18MM head diameter
8MM internal hex
I didn't specify grade, but assume 12.9 (will clarify if you are interested)
In QTY 100 these are $5.50 each and a one week lead time. This is a wholesale only, but I will place the order in conjunction with one of mine and ship at cost if you guys want some.
Lower quantities the price will go up. I would expect an order of 50 to not be much cheaper than an order for 100 pcs. The higher up in the fastener supplier food chain you go the higher the expected quantities get to achieve target prices.
Another option is to just reuse the stock bolts and remove the lock washer in favor of loctite. The stock Aisin bolts have a .315" head thickness and a reduced head without the washer.
ARP has everything and will make anything you want in house. They are great to deal with, however, it often comes with a very premium price.
M12X1.25X30MM
7MM head thickness
18MM head diameter
8MM internal hex
I didn't specify grade, but assume 12.9 (will clarify if you are interested)
In QTY 100 these are $5.50 each and a one week lead time. This is a wholesale only, but I will place the order in conjunction with one of mine and ship at cost if you guys want some.
Lower quantities the price will go up. I would expect an order of 50 to not be much cheaper than an order for 100 pcs. The higher up in the fastener supplier food chain you go the higher the expected quantities get to achieve target prices.
Another option is to just reuse the stock bolts and remove the lock washer in favor of loctite. The stock Aisin bolts have a .315" head thickness and a reduced head without the washer.
ARP has everything and will make anything you want in house. They are great to deal with, however, it often comes with a very premium price.
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Thanks for the research on them, I would get them but I think the $1.50 ones I got with the regular cap heads will work in my case. if my thicker adapter does not work and I need to go back to the .550" plate I'll probably just use the stock bolts with out the lock washers. What would you think the minimum thickness in between the bolt and the trans for the aluminium. Say 6061 for example. Would .200" be enough? Seems the bit thin to me but I do not know the working loads on the bolts and the strength of 6061.
I'm also just getting around to drawing up my adapter and the two Isuzu bell housings I have measure 10.718" on the inside bore. Should have a complete drawing and adapter up Monday or Tuesday night for everyone's enjoyment.
Matt
I've never understood the point of measuring parts which were designed in metric in inches. Couldn't you guys save a lot of hassle by using metric for metric and imperial for imperial?
In metric land a 16" rim is a 16" rim, not a 406.4mm rim.
- Thread starter
- #132
Good point Dougal!
This would have all been a lot simpler if the U.S. had just gone to the Metric system in the 70s like the rest of the world. Metric is so much easier to deal with.
Unfortunately, most of the machine shops here in the U.S. don't use the metric system so we are stuck between two systems.
This would have all been a lot simpler if the U.S. had just gone to the Metric system in the 70s like the rest of the world. Metric is so much easier to deal with.
Unfortunately, most of the machine shops here in the U.S. don't use the metric system so we are stuck between two systems.
Good point Dougal!
This would have all been a lot simpler if the U.S. had just gone to the Metric system in the 70s like the rest of the world. Metric is so much easier to deal with.
Unfortunately, most of the machine shops here in the U.S. don't use the metric system so we are stuck between two systems.
The entire world is stuck between the two systems. But when we need to design in metric but cover manufacture in imperial we just dual-dimension.
If something is imperial then the imperial dimension goes first (i.e. half inch bolt) and the metric (12.7mm OD) is only added as a check.
It seems completely nuts to design in imperial when the parts are 100% metric.
Very good point. I'd love to be all metric, but everything at work is imperial. Kind of developed that habbit. I'm going try the dual dimensioning idea and see if I can get the old people at work to adopt it...
Matt
Hey Longbow-
I'm just finishing up my swap into an FZJ80 that was largely inspired by your good tech here. I'm struggling to get the throttle cable on mine adjusted correctly. I found the same thing as you...I need to leave it really loose with only about 1" of throw and then its pretty driveable. I have to take my foot off the throttle to get it to shift and if I mash the throttle it kicks down. However I can't get it to shift through the gears with steady, moderate throttle applied. I'm wondering if this is due to the lower rpm range of the engine or ? Just thought I'd check to see what your experience has been with this.
Thanks!
Andy
I'm just finishing up my swap into an FZJ80 that was largely inspired by your good tech here. I'm struggling to get the throttle cable on mine adjusted correctly. I found the same thing as you...I need to leave it really loose with only about 1" of throw and then its pretty driveable. I have to take my foot off the throttle to get it to shift and if I mash the throttle it kicks down. However I can't get it to shift through the gears with steady, moderate throttle applied. I'm wondering if this is due to the lower rpm range of the engine or ? Just thought I'd check to see what your experience has been with this.
Thanks!
Andy
Cruiserbrett,
Thanks, this has been a ton of work building this truck, but now it is just about my dream truck. I still have bumpers to build and re-do the interior, but mechanically it is just about done.
Good question on the kickdown cable. On the top of the injection pump there is a cam that is actuated by the throttle and presses an electric switch. I think it is a component of the cold start enrichment system, which I didn't use. I removed the switch and welded my kickdown arm to the top of the cam and then built a bracket to hold the cable end and welded that to the existing switch bracket on top of the injection pump.
The first pic shows the cam that I am talking about on the other engine I have, the second one shows my assembly as it sits on the truck. I built the arm and bracket to extend the cable from its starting point to fully extended which was 1.4" of length. This ended up being way too much and I had to loosen the cable all the way to the end of my adjustment as you can see in the picture. I think it really only needs about 1" of throw to properly operate the kickdown valve. As it sits right now if I even press much past 1/2 throttle it will kickdown to the next gear. From what I read it is much better to be too tight than to be too loose on this cable.
Hope this helps. I am still on my first tank of fuel, but I should have some mpg numbers by the end of the week. I don't expect that it lost too much as I can't see any difference in the the way the gauge needle is going down. I am expecting a 1 to 2 mpg loss to run the slushbox but I will post up the actual numbers here in a few days when I fill up.
Thanks,
Don
- Thread starter
- #136
Hi Andy, did you build your system like mine off that little cam on top of the injection pump?
It sounds like your system may still be a little tight. If you let up on the throttle and it up shifts to the next gear, then that is usually a sign that the cable is on the tight side. Also, if you are getting kickdowns before you get to 3/4 throttle, it usually means that you are to tight on the cable. The length of the arm in relation to the center of the pivot point of your kickdown cable linkage is pretty critical for the proper travel. If the arm is too long you will get too much travel and have to keep the cable excessively loose. If the cable is too loose you will have no increase in line pressure until your linkage takes up the slop in the cable. If you are having to leave the cable too loose for proper shifting, then you need to shorten your linkage arm to fix this issue.
I hope this makes sense.
Don
It sounds like your system may still be a little tight. If you let up on the throttle and it up shifts to the next gear, then that is usually a sign that the cable is on the tight side. Also, if you are getting kickdowns before you get to 3/4 throttle, it usually means that you are to tight on the cable. The length of the arm in relation to the center of the pivot point of your kickdown cable linkage is pretty critical for the proper travel. If the arm is too long you will get too much travel and have to keep the cable excessively loose. If the cable is too loose you will have no increase in line pressure until your linkage takes up the slop in the cable. If you are having to leave the cable too loose for proper shifting, then you need to shorten your linkage arm to fix this issue.
I hope this makes sense.
Don
Hi Don-
Yup that all makes sense. I built mine off the cruise control actuator bellcrank. I first had about an inch of throw and then switched to get the textbook 1.3" of throw and still have funny shifting. So I suppose my question is this: have you arrived at a setup that shifts through the gears at medium throttle and by say 2500ish rpm? I'm trying to decide if the shift points for the gas are different or
what.
Here's a pic of what I did. Hope that's not a high jack.
Yup that all makes sense. I built mine off the cruise control actuator bellcrank. I first had about an inch of throw and then switched to get the textbook 1.3" of throw and still have funny shifting. So I suppose my question is this: have you arrived at a setup that shifts through the gears at medium throttle and by say 2500ish rpm? I'm trying to decide if the shift points for the gas are different or
what.
Here's a pic of what I did. Hope that's not a high jack.
- Thread starter
- #138
Hi Andy,
Well that is quite the setup there!
Both of my trannys are out of gas vehicles and they both seem to shift before 2500 as long as I'm not into the throttle too much. If I am heavy on the throttle it will stay in the gear longer due to how tight I have the kickdown cable. I like it this way as I have some control over shifting of the tranny by my throttle pedal. If I give normal acceleration it will shift before 2500 and if I accelerate heavy, it will stay in the gear until I let up a little during acceleration and then it will shift.
I hope that makes sense,
Don
Well that is quite the setup there!
Both of my trannys are out of gas vehicles and they both seem to shift before 2500 as long as I'm not into the throttle too much. If I am heavy on the throttle it will stay in the gear longer due to how tight I have the kickdown cable. I like it this way as I have some control over shifting of the tranny by my throttle pedal. If I give normal acceleration it will shift before 2500 and if I accelerate heavy, it will stay in the gear until I let up a little during acceleration and then it will shift.
I hope that makes sense,
Don
Thanks Don. Sounds like there is better shifting to be had. I'll keep hunting for it. Thanks for all your great tech. If you end up doing your wife's 80 and there's anything I can do to help please let me know!
Don, I was wondering if you could give me the distance from the back of the Isuzu plate to the front of the Toyota TC drive hub
