I should have been more clear. The governor end of the injection pump is fully mechanical. All the 4D3's have the TICS setup for timing adjustments. There is no flywheel on the timing gear like the 4BD engines. FWIW, the UD FD46TA engines also use TICS pumps with mechanical governors. They actually look exactly like the Mitsu TICS pumps. The ECU you are talking about simply controls the TICS setup. It advances timing at startup and as RPMs increase.
Isuzu 4BD1T swap part II : now w/ A440F auto
- Thread starter longbow
- Start date
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I should have been more clear. The governor end of the injection pump is fully mechanical. All the 4D3's have the TICS setup for timing adjustments. There is no flywheel on the timing gear like the 4BD engines. FWIW, the UD FD46TA engines also use TICS pumps with mechanical governors. They actually look exactly like the Mitsu TICS pumps. The ECU you are talking about simply controls the TICS setup. It advances timing at startup and as RPMs increase.
Hey thanks Clint!
The most time consuming part of this was sending off the torque converter for rebuilding. That took 2 weeks, and then building custom brackets in front of my radiator for dual tranny coolers to keep this beast cool during our hellish summers here in Tucson!
Tell your brother-in-law thanks again for the deal on the tranny and thank you for packin' it all up and getting it shipped for a great price!
How is the bigger turbo working out on the silver surfer? I posted on your thread but you never replied. You must be pretty busy on your days off.
Talk soon,
Don
Sorry bout' that Don. Must have just read right through it. I am liking the turbo but there is a good 1 sec plus of lag time when I am really getting on it. I am not sure what it is. I have talked to a few people and the general theme is that I should try bumping the timing to engage fuel a bit quicker. Right now I am max boosting at 18 psi. The other bit with that is I am popping intercooler couplers at 18 psi as well. All in all the truck still makes me grin everytime I drive it and even more so when I try to explain to someone that its not a rod knocking uner the hood but a TDI Isuzu!
I plan on re working some bits early next summer along with the A/C items. More than likely the turbo, intake and some exhaust will get some attention then.
Clint
cruiserbrett
GOLD Star
Don,
Can you post up a pic of the trans kickdown cable setup at the engine?
That is such an amazing job! Both the original conversion and the auto! Dont know if I missed it or not, but how has the fuel mileage been with the A440?
Can you post up a pic of the trans kickdown cable setup at the engine?
That is such an amazing job! Both the original conversion and the auto! Dont know if I missed it or not, but how has the fuel mileage been with the A440?
- Thread starter
- #24
Cruiserbrett,
Thanks, this has been a ton of work building this truck, but now it is just about my dream truck. I still have bumpers to build and re-do the interior, but mechanically it is just about done.
Good question on the kickdown cable. On the top of the injection pump there is a cam that is actuated by the throttle and presses an electric switch. I think it is a component of the cold start enrichment system, which I didn't use. I removed the switch and welded my kickdown arm to the top of the cam and then built a bracket to hold the cable end and welded that to the existing switch bracket on top of the injection pump.
The first pic shows the cam that I am talking about on the other engine I have, the second one shows my assembly as it sits on the truck. I built the arm and bracket to extend the cable from its starting point to fully extended which was 1.4" of length. This ended up being way too much and I had to loosen the cable all the way to the end of my adjustment as you can see in the picture. I think it really only needs about 1" of throw to properly operate the kickdown valve. As it sits right now if I even press much past 1/2 throttle it will kickdown to the next gear. From what I read it is much better to be too tight than to be too loose on this cable.
Hope this helps. I am still on my first tank of fuel, but I should have some mpg numbers by the end of the week. I don't expect that it lost too much as I can't see any difference in the the way the gauge needle is going down. I am expecting a 1 to 2 mpg loss to run the slushbox but I will post up the actual numbers here in a few days when I fill up.
Thanks,
Don
Thanks, this has been a ton of work building this truck, but now it is just about my dream truck. I still have bumpers to build and re-do the interior, but mechanically it is just about done.
Good question on the kickdown cable. On the top of the injection pump there is a cam that is actuated by the throttle and presses an electric switch. I think it is a component of the cold start enrichment system, which I didn't use. I removed the switch and welded my kickdown arm to the top of the cam and then built a bracket to hold the cable end and welded that to the existing switch bracket on top of the injection pump.
The first pic shows the cam that I am talking about on the other engine I have, the second one shows my assembly as it sits on the truck. I built the arm and bracket to extend the cable from its starting point to fully extended which was 1.4" of length. This ended up being way too much and I had to loosen the cable all the way to the end of my adjustment as you can see in the picture. I think it really only needs about 1" of throw to properly operate the kickdown valve. As it sits right now if I even press much past 1/2 throttle it will kickdown to the next gear. From what I read it is much better to be too tight than to be too loose on this cable.
Hope this helps. I am still on my first tank of fuel, but I should have some mpg numbers by the end of the week. I don't expect that it lost too much as I can't see any difference in the the way the gauge needle is going down. I am expecting a 1 to 2 mpg loss to run the slushbox but I will post up the actual numbers here in a few days when I fill up.
Thanks,
Don
Would you be willing to sell one of those spacers or specs to create one? I have been watching this forum for a while now and plan on doing a fj80 4bd1t conversion but have always wanted to stay auto. This would work great!
Thanks and congrats on a great build!!
Thanks and congrats on a great build!!
- Thread starter
- #26
Meunited,
Thanks for the offer, but I really don't even have any dimensions yet. I didn't have a 12" caliper so I just cut the ring to fit just over the Toyota oil pump housing and then I turned the step so that the Isuzu bellhousing just fit over the step on the plate. My goal for the next one is to make it to dimension and document the measurments so anyone can build it or have it built by a shop. I am probably still a few months away from that point though.
Thanks,
Don
Thanks for the offer, but I really don't even have any dimensions yet. I didn't have a 12" caliper so I just cut the ring to fit just over the Toyota oil pump housing and then I turned the step so that the Isuzu bellhousing just fit over the step on the plate. My goal for the next one is to make it to dimension and document the measurments so anyone can build it or have it built by a shop. I am probably still a few months away from that point though.
Thanks,
Don
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
how about the tach gear...any interest in building one of those if i can find a way of stuffing the 4bd1t into my fj40 without losing my pto winch?
As always very clean swap!
If only i had a machine shop on hand!!!
As always very clean swap!
If only i had a machine shop on hand!!!
- Thread starter
- #28
Ahh, the addiction contiues huh? Once you have the first diesel, it is only a matter of time before you start looking for something else to put this engine into.
By tach gear, do you mean the style like Flcruiser did on his off the oil pump drive?
I wish I had some extra time to play with stuff like that, but I really haven't got the time to do all the projects I have going on my two cruisers.
Thanks for the thought though Josh.
Did you see Astr's fix for the factory tach so that it doesn't cut out above 2200 to 2500 rpm? Mine has been cutting out like his and I am in the process of replacing the capacitors like he documented in his update.
Don
By tach gear, do you mean the style like Flcruiser did on his off the oil pump drive?
I wish I had some extra time to play with stuff like that, but I really haven't got the time to do all the projects I have going on my two cruisers.
Thanks for the thought though Josh.
Did you see Astr's fix for the factory tach so that it doesn't cut out above 2200 to 2500 rpm? Mine has been cutting out like his and I am in the process of replacing the capacitors like he documented in his update.
Don
longbow said:
Perfect. The wife convinced we need an 80 series with a 4bd1t diesel in it. She wants me to start looking after the first of the year!
Clint
- Thread starter
- #30
HA! See, the infection continues to spread. Now the women are even becoming weak to the power of the Isuzu diesel!
Glad to hear you're going to get an 80 Clint!
I still have some other items to work out before I begin my 80 swap. Like how to keep my cruise control working with the throttle assembly of the Isuzu. I'm sure that the cruise computer needs a throttle position signal or something like that to work. I need to spend some time on the 80 swap threads to see how they retained cruise.
Right now I am just gathering parts to rebuild my extra 4BD1T. This will take me a while to get the engine torn down and rebuilt in my spare time.
Have fun!
Don
Glad to hear you're going to get an 80 Clint!
I still have some other items to work out before I begin my 80 swap. Like how to keep my cruise control working with the throttle assembly of the Isuzu. I'm sure that the cruise computer needs a throttle position signal or something like that to work. I need to spend some time on the 80 swap threads to see how they retained cruise.
Right now I am just gathering parts to rebuild my extra 4BD1T. This will take me a while to get the engine torn down and rebuilt in my spare time.
Have fun!
Don
Here's a pic of the mounting plate from a 1992 4D34. Not sure if you can get an idea from this pic or not. I'd be more than happy to lay a piece of masking paper over it, trace out a template, fold it up and mail it to you.
FL cruiser;7159698 I'd be more than happy to lay a piece of masking paper over it said:
Keep me posted. I am going to start looking for an engine to start tearing into. It will definately be a slow build process over the next year or so.
clint
Would it be possible to take the same mounting plate from a 1999+ 4D34 w/ AW450 and fit it to the 1992-1998 4D34 block? Then AW450 Flex plate, torque converter, and bell housing matched up to the A440F. The mounting plates from the fusos all look remarkably similar. The bolt pattern from plate to block may even be the same.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...finitive-aw450-43le-equipped-diesel-list.html
Potential issues:
1999+ Flex plate to 1992-1998 crank pattern (the look the same).
AW450 Torque converter pilot?
Are the A440F and AW450 housings the same pattern on the engine side?
From what I see in that picture? That is exactly the approach I'd take... No fab required at that point.
This is understood.
What I believe we were getting at, was using a 92-98 4D34 (mechanical governor) with the rear engine plate from a 99-04 4D34 (electronic governor). This would allow the 99-04 4D34 AW450 bellhousing to bolt to the older block. This bell, torque converter, and flexplate to mate the older block to the A440 transmission.
Anyway, enough of a thread hijack, if your adaptor was mass produced it would be even simpler!
"This A440F and torque converter was out of a BJ74 with a 13BT. I sent the torque converter off to be rebuilt before I did the conversion because I didn't want to worry about that later on down the road."
So if this is a torque converter (and trans.) out of a automatic diesel truck is there any difference in the TC in a gas truck? Is the TC stall speed or the trans. shift points different.? Or is it the exact same thing?
Jeremy
So if this is a torque converter (and trans.) out of a automatic diesel truck is there any difference in the TC in a gas truck? Is the TC stall speed or the trans. shift points different.? Or is it the exact same thing?
Jeremy
- Thread starter
- #39
Jeremy,
I did a bunch of research for this swap about the differences between the gas and diesel A440 trannys. After talking with Rodney at Wholesale autos in Australia, it appears that the only two differences between the gas and diesel trannys is the torque converter and the governor. The diesel torque converter has a lower stall speed and the governer controls the shift points which are obviously lower for the diesel torque curve.
The valve bodies are exactly the same between the two. So providing you could find a diesel governor and a diesel torque converter, you could easily convert a gas A440 to work with a diesel engine. That being said, I know of a couple of people that are just running a stock gas A440 with a diesel engine and it really isn't that much of a problem.
Thanks,
Don
I did a bunch of research for this swap about the differences between the gas and diesel A440 trannys. After talking with Rodney at Wholesale autos in Australia, it appears that the only two differences between the gas and diesel trannys is the torque converter and the governor. The diesel torque converter has a lower stall speed and the governer controls the shift points which are obviously lower for the diesel torque curve.
The valve bodies are exactly the same between the two. So providing you could find a diesel governor and a diesel torque converter, you could easily convert a gas A440 to work with a diesel engine. That being said, I know of a couple of people that are just running a stock gas A440 with a diesel engine and it really isn't that much of a problem.
Thanks,
Don
Don,
I’m very interested in the method you used to adapt an A440F to an Isuzu 4bd1. I own a 1988 FJ62, 1992 4bd2t, and a wastegated turbo from a 1994 motor and have been considering different ways to adapt the A440F to the Isuzu motor. I was until recently planning to have the trans side of the Isuzu bell housing machined off and a new plate machined to match the A440F and tig welded to it. I was planning to have a spindle made to adapt a manual flywheel to the Toy flex plate. This was my plan…but I had not measured anything.
The method you developed however is down right genius and I wish to go that direction with my conversion.
While I’m not new to this forum…I’ve been reading and saving good tech articles for years I am however new to posting up here.
I would like to get more clarification from you concerning how you bolted the BJ74 torque converter to the clutch face of the Isuzu converter (the missing photo
). Did you drill access holes through the large plate welded onto the back of the converter and clutch face? Or did you separate the clutch face from the large plate welded onto the back of the converter bolt up the BJ74 converter and then re-weld clutch face back to the large adapter plate? Sorry if I’m being thick here but a picture of that step would have helped me out big time.
Do you mind telling who you had rebuild the BJ74 converter?
Is there any difference in overall thickness between the BJ74 converter and the one from a gas A440F converter?
Last question- for now Can a BJ74 converter be used with a gas A440F? That is do they have same pump interface, shaft/seal size etc?
Thanks,
Don Ferguson
I’m very interested in the method you used to adapt an A440F to an Isuzu 4bd1. I own a 1988 FJ62, 1992 4bd2t, and a wastegated turbo from a 1994 motor and have been considering different ways to adapt the A440F to the Isuzu motor. I was until recently planning to have the trans side of the Isuzu bell housing machined off and a new plate machined to match the A440F and tig welded to it. I was planning to have a spindle made to adapt a manual flywheel to the Toy flex plate. This was my plan…but I had not measured anything.
The method you developed however is down right genius and I wish to go that direction with my conversion.
While I’m not new to this forum…I’ve been reading and saving good tech articles for years I am however new to posting up here.
I would like to get more clarification from you concerning how you bolted the BJ74 torque converter to the clutch face of the Isuzu converter (the missing photo
). Did you drill access holes through the large plate welded onto the back of the converter and clutch face? Or did you separate the clutch face from the large plate welded onto the back of the converter bolt up the BJ74 converter and then re-weld clutch face back to the large adapter plate? Sorry if I’m being thick here but a picture of that step would have helped me out big time.Do you mind telling who you had rebuild the BJ74 converter?
Is there any difference in overall thickness between the BJ74 converter and the one from a gas A440F converter?
Last question- for now
Can a BJ74 converter be used with a gas A440F? That is do they have same pump interface, shaft/seal size etc?Thanks,
Don Ferguson
