Isn't a 100 LC just a bigger and heavier 4Runner?

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1meancruiser

1meancruiser

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No it's not, i know it's not. But i thought the title would get some attention...Also, I had this question asked of me last night by a good friend. he is looking at his next purchase options; wrangler 4dr rubicon, MBZ G wagon and possibly a toyota...he currently owns a LR Defender 90.

I told him the LC has a boxed frame, center locker, good approach and departure angles to which he responded, so does the 4 Runner...it's based on a tacoma frame, a boxed frame. I went on to elaborate that LC's are built at a designated factory, unlike any of the other Yota's. And that the quality control, because of the designated factory, far exceeds other similar car.

Frankley speaking, i was struggling to justify the 70k or so orginal price and the now 32k to 40k price for a comparable to mine 2006 LC. This compared to a 4Runner for half off. In fact, i was growing a bit frustrated knowing how great the LC is but not being able to communicated it in a factual form. With this, i thought i'd turn to the forum for some bullet points of facts on what makes the LC 100 (in this case) great!
 
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Me: 100 owner --> 4runner (120) owner --> 100 owner

IMO: Coca Cola --> Diet Coke --> Coca Cola

The 120 series/4runner has a comparable, if not slightly better build quality than the 100 series in my opinion. It's the "Land Cruiser Light" that tastes great and is less filling. That said, I like dimensions and heft of my 100.
 
I will start with a few things, but you can really go on for days about this, especially taking into account the great history of the Land Cruiser that laid the foundation for the Toyota Motor Company that we know today. If you haven't, definitely check out the history link.

Here are the some points from the net, my opinion and some links:

http://www.toyota.com.kw/english/toyota_models___/landcruiser/history/html/home.html

- Go to your dealership and look at the parts/composition stickers. The 4R's are down to around 80-85% Japanese, which means there are some American, Canadian, Mexican and other parts manufactured elsewhere in there. The Cruiser is still around 95% and the 5% represents the running boards, roof racks, interior trim packages (the faux wood, etc), minor stuff, that are made in Canada, so the Cruiser is more Japanese, which means Aisin, Koyo, Matsuba, Denso, ...... much better parts. No Dana driveshafts - the ones that were failing in the Taco's

- Cruiser has better approach, break-over, departure angles.

- Cruiser has more ground clearance.

- Cruiser's underbody is very clean and everything is tucked away and protected. The fuel tank concealed well and up high.

- Cruiser frame is said to be the strongest SUV frame and probably much stronger than the Taco/4R frame due to the size of the vehicle.

- Cruiser has larger and heavier duty components. The suspension system is superior in off-roading, has a lot more travel than 4runner/GX. Up to today, TLC still holds the record for the highest RTI of any vehicle with independent suspension. It even beat out Jeep Grand Cherokee, who has solid axles in front and rear. It loses only to Land Rover Discovery.

(RTI: ramp travel index. You run a car up a certain degree ramp, usually 20 degree. You measure how much a vehicle can go up until the one of the rear wheel loses contact with the ground.)

- Cruiser's rack-and-pinion steering is specially designed to fit high up into the body...to avoid damage in off-roading. This has been somewhat of a problem with 4runners (and GX) in off-roading. The steering mechanism in the 4runner hangs low...most SUVs with rack & pinion steering hangs low due to design constraints. I believe that the Range Rover's system is also up high into the body (like TLC). That is why hard-core off-roaders still prefer recirculating-ball steering because it can be mounted high.

- Cruiser can climb 45 degree hill and cross a side slope of 45 degree. That is 100% grade and 100% side slope capability!! Only a handful of SUVs on the planet can do this. The new 4runner/GX can do about 42 and 41 degrees. This capability requires good vehicle design (wheelbase, length, track, etc.). In addition, the oil pan and engine must be able to work at those extreme degrees.

- Cruiser is designed for 25 years of severe duty. The engine holds nearly 2 gallons of oil, the transmission around 3 gallons, the transfer and diffs hold substantial fluid, the cooling system holds like 4 gallons, there are coolers, and the 80's have oil squirters to cool the pistons, not sure about the 100's

- Cruiser has offset differential(s)

- And don't forget that real Toyota's have VIN's that start with JT


I'm sure there are some mistakes here, but that is a start. Somebody take it over.
 
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1meancruiser said:
... I had this question asked of me last night by a good friend. he is looking at his next purchase options
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I can certainly see where the confusion comes from, what with Toyota's relentless size creep. The original 4Runner was a mini-truck with a removable top, and now it is the same size as an 80-series at least. The current Tacoma (direct descendant of the Hilux/mini-truck) is bigger than the T-100 which was supposedly a full-size truck when it came out, and almost as big as the first Tundra. The Highlander started out as a small crossover built on a Camry platform, and now it is as big as the 4Runner was a couple of generations ago. Not to mention how the Land Cruiser has evolved from the relatively miniscule FJ25.
 
No more than my wife's 05 Lexus LS430 is just a fancy Toyota Camry.

When I traded my 07 Sequioa for my 05 LC, I thought I would miss the extra room of the Sequioa. The LC, even 7 years old and 120k miles, makes the Sequoia feel like a bloated, cheap soccer mom mobile.

If you're not a LC owner, then you just won't understand.
 
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I've owned a 3rd gen and 4th gen 4runner and loved both of those trucks. That said, my '06 LC doesn't compare to either of them when it comes to interior appointments and luxury. The LC also feels so much more solid then the 4runner. I will say that my last 4th gen did have the same engine, tranny, and fulltime 4wd system as my LC. I've only owned the LC for 2 weeks but will report more as I get to know the vehicle (off-road compared to my 4runner, snow, etc)
 
lizardking100 said:
Me: 100 owner --> 4runner (120) owner --> 100 owner

IMO: Coca Cola --> Diet Coke --> Coca Cola

The 120 series/4runner has a comparable, if not slightly better build quality than the 100 series in my opinion. It's the "Land Cruiser Light" that tastes great and is less filling. That said, I like dimensions and heft of my 100.
Click to expand...

Do you mean in fit and finish of the interior, I can't imagine the drivetrain build quality being any better.
 
LCAdvocate said:
I will start with a few things, but you can really go on for days about this, especially taking into account the great history of the Land Cruiser that laid the foundation for the Toyota Motor Company that we know today. If you haven't, definitely check out the history link.

Here are the some points from the net, my opinion and some links:

http://www.toyota.com.kw/english/toyota_models___/landcruiser/history/html/home.html

- Go to your dealership and look at the parts/composition stickers. The 4R's are down to around 80-85% Japanese, which means there are some American, Canadian, Mexican and other parts manufactured elsewhere in there. The Cruiser is still around 95% and the 5% represents the running boards, roof racks, interior trim packages (the faux wood, etc), minor stuff, that are made in Canada, so the Cruiser is more Japanese, which means Aisin, Koyo, Matsuba, Denso, ...... much better parts. No Dana driveshafts - the ones that were failing in the Taco's

- Cruiser has better approach, break-over, departure angles.

- Cruiser has more ground clearance.

- Cruiser's underbody is very clean and everything is tucked away and protected. The fuel tank concealed well and up high.

- Cruiser frame is said to be the strongest SUV frame and probably much stronger than the Taco/4R frame due to the size of the vehicle.

- Cruiser has larger and heavier duty components. The suspension system is superior in off-roading, has a lot more travel than 4runner/GX. Up to today, TLC still holds the record for the highest RTI of any vehicle with independent suspension. It even beat out Jeep Grand Cherokee, who has solid axles in front and rear. It loses only to Land Rover Discovery.

(RTI: ramp travel index. You run a car up a certain degree ramp, usually 20 degree. You measure how much a vehicle can go up until the one of the rear wheel loses contact with the ground.)

- Cruiser's rack-and-pinion steering is specially designed to fit high up into the body...to avoid damage in off-roading. This has been somewhat of a problem with 4runners (and GX) in off-roading. The steering mechanism in the 4runner hangs low...most SUVs with rack & pinion steering hangs low due to design constraints. I believe that the Range Rover's system is also up high into the body (like TLC). That is why hard-core off-roaders still prefer recirculating-ball steering because it can be mounted high.

- Cruiser can climb 45 degree hill and cross a side slope of 45 degree. That is 100% grade and 100% side slope capability!! Only a handful of SUVs on the planet can do this. The new 4runner/GX can do about 42 and 41 degrees. This capability requires good vehicle design (wheelbase, length, track, etc.). In addition, the oil pan and engine must be able to work at those extreme degrees.

- Cruiser is designed for 25 years of severe duty. The engine holds nearly 2 gallons of oil, the transmission around 3 gallons, the transfer and diffs hold substantial fluid, the cooling system holds like 4 gallons, there are coolers, and are the 80's have oil squirters to cool the pistons, not sure about the 100's

- Cruiser has offset differential(s)

- And don't forget that real Toyota's have VIN's that start with JT

I'm sure there are some mistakes here, but that is a start. Somebody take it over.
Click to expand...

This is very impressive, thanks. The RTI and climb degree numbers are especially fun to hear!!!
 
1meancruiser said:
Do you mean in fit and finish of the interior, I can't imagine the drivetrain build quality being any better.
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Not really referring to the drive train--but to everything else perhaps a slight edge to the Tahara-built 4runner. It's subjective and anecdotal. That said, the 100 is incredibly well built and is constructed for heavier and different uses.

I don't find it all that productive to draw comparisons between these two exceptional SUVs. If space and fuel aren't a factor my preference is the 100.
 
I have both and I can say that I find very little quality difference between the two, except that my 4R is a simple SR5 model with cloth, no moon roof, etc. The ride is far stiffer in the 4R, but it is much lighter too. I figure that if the LC was not so heavy, it would bounce around more as well.

I dispute the frame toughness claims in this thread. The towing capacity of the 4R is actually higher than the LC, at least in my V8 version. I have about 120k on my 4R and it is riding very solid, with no rattles, squeaks, rust, etc. In fact I think it is in better condition overall than the LC was at that mileage (170k now).

All that being said, I don't plan on letting either truck go until they can go no more. Very pleased with both. The LC definitely fits the whole family and travel trailer better for road trips and the 4R makes a fun daily driver. And for the record my Highlander is a tin can by comparison - lots of rattles, wimpy brakes, and more.
 
EdsCruisin said:
I dispute the frame toughness claims in this thread. The towing capacity of the 4R is actually higher than the LC, at least in my V8 version. I have about 120k on my 4R and it is riding very solid, with no rattles, squeaks, rust, etc. In fact I think it is in better condition overall than the LC was at that mileage (170k now).
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From MotorTrend in 1998. And remember this was 1998, which is what I was referring to earlier - the time the 100/105 series was introduced.

"Toyota left no functional area untouched in this comprehensive improvement program. The Land Cruiser design team literally began the process from the ground up, starting with a major revamp of the vehicle's already robust ladder frame that increased the crossmember count from six to nine. That change, combined with the use of precision welding techniques, special flared flange joints, and a new single-piece body side stamping yielded a 50-percent increase in structural rigidity over the previous model. The Land Cruiser's underpinnings and steering also were upgraded for '98......"

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...oyota_land_cruiser/viewall.html#ixzz2GIi4iJ50
 
LCA Advocate you're wrong on two points.

The 4th gen is made 100% in Japan at the Tahara plant with nearly 100% sourced Japanese components. The rugs and trim, like you said, are USA based.

Additionally, the V8 and transmission is IDENTICAL to that of the 100 series and their fluid capacities are equal as well.

Now, I'll give the durability/strength nod to the Land Crusier (one look underneath is all you need); however, interior fit and finish, overall quality, and craftsmanship are nearly identical.

I've owned both since new.
 
04UZJ100 said:
LCA Advocate you're wrong on two points.

The 4th gen is made 100% in Japan at the Tahara plant with nearly 100% sourced Japanese components. The rugs and trim, like you said, are USA based.

Additionally, the V8 and transmission is IDENTICAL to that of the 100 series and their fluid capacities are equal as well.

Now, I'll give the durability/strength nod to the Land Crusier (one look underneath is all you need); however, interior fit and finish, overall quality, and craftsmanship are nearly identical.

I've owned both since new.
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I've owned a 2004, 2005 and 2007 4runner LTD and 1995 FZJ80', 1999 100 Series, 2 - 2004 LX470's and now a 2005 LX470. In my humble opinion the 4runner is a great bang for the buck vehicle. But comparing the 4 runner with the 100 series is like comparing a Mercedes GLK with the build quality of a G550.
 
SWUtah said:
I've owned a 2004, 2005 and 2007 4runner LTD and 1995 FZJ80', 1999 100 Series, 2 - 2004 LX470's and now a 2005 LX470. In my humble opinion the 4runner is a great bang for the buck vehicle. But comparing the 4 runner with the 100 series is like comparing a Mercedes GLK with the build quality of a G550.
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Do not confuse quality with durability. They are not the same.
 
SWUtah said:
The 100 series is both compared to the 4runner. But if I was comparing the 4runner to a Range Rover I would agree with you. RR higher quality not as durable or dependable. JMHO that is not worth that much.
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100% agreed. I had a 2004 discover prior to the 100. The interior was much nicer, and that's not even the RR trim. where the LR and RR's fall short are the reliability of the components and how the components are assembled together. It's as if they took a tea and crumpets break when quality control was supposed to take place. The discovery was a great suv and she was relatively reliable, but ultimately very tempremental. Having owned the 100 for 9 months and have put 14k mi on her, I absolutely love the LC. My only complaint is the 13mpg. TOYOTA, WHY Won't YOU SHIP THE DIESEL TO U.S.???
 
1meancruiser said:
100% agreed. I had a 2004 discover prior to the 100. The interior was much nicer, and that's not even the RR trim. where the LR and RR's fall short are the reliability of the components and how the components are assembled together. It's as if they took a tea and crumpets break when quality control was supposed to take place. The discovery was a great suv and she was relatively reliable, but ultimately very tempremental. Having owned the 100 for 9 months and have put 14k mi on her, I absolutely love the LC. My only complaint is the 13mpg. TOYOTA, WHY Won't YOU SHIP THE DIESEL TO U.S.???
Click to expand...

Is your signature correct? You only have 18k miles on your 2006?
 
SWUtah said:
Is your signature correct? You only have 18k miles on your 2006?
Click to expand...

It is, I bought it with 18,000 miles nine months ago, now it has 32,000 miles.
 
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