Is this a normal birfield break?

[LandCruiserPhil]

After many years of wheeling with birfield this is my first break. Is this the way they normally break? Does this type of break say anything?
This breakage bothers me because I have been in a lot tougher condition under full throttle with my other Cruisers without even a click. Why this time?

Phil

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Bell pictures..the cage split in 1/2 leaving 1 part pushed deep into the bell and the other part in pieces

 

[IdahoDoug]

Phil,

It *looks* to me like the balls had worn much deeper into their grooves on what you're calling the "bell" than I'm used to seeing. Could it be that either:

1- the birf was run with poor lube for some time in its life? Or
2- the birf was apart previously for normal maintenance but reassembled with the inner cage reversed? If so, I believe this would allow the balls to move farther out of the bell and may account for the wear, and of course the failure as the balls extend too far and can exert tremendous radial pressure.


How did the circlip that holds the birf together look? What say ye?

DougM

 

[semlin]

phil my cage broke like that from sheer lack of grease but the damage to the birf itself was not as severe.

 

[RavenTai]

Unfortunately that picture in the FSM is not on 80's birf, none of the telltale sighs for direction in the manual are present on the 80 birf

I assume an oversight on Toyota's part, they recycled previous diagrams

 

[reffug]

Sheez, I find the fact that a dealership could/would make that type of mistake kinda depressing, and scary. Its really hard to trust anyone to work on your truck other than yourself.

 

[Rich]

Phil, Regarding the bottom picture of the star in your first posting, was the star assembled in the birfield with the surface pictured visible, or was it installed with the surface pictured towards the inside of the outer birfield bell?

 

[cruiserdan]

Phil, Regarding the bottom picture of the star in your first posting, was the star assembled in the birfield with the surface pictured visible, or was it installed with the surface pictured towards the inside of the outer birfield bell?

Rich is onto it...........


The side we see face-up should be inside the joint and the side we do not see faces the inner axle.

 

[Doc]

Sheez, I find the fact that a dealership could/would make that type of mistake kinda depressing, and scary. Its really hard to trust anyone to work on your truck other than yourself.

That's hard to believe? The dealership near me fugged up the install of the rear main oil seal and it took them three months to fess up to it and fix it properly.

How hard is it to install an oil seal? Just push it in with the correct 'seater'.

I would have done it myself if I had the tools to do so. Needless to say, neither one of my cruisers is going back there for maintenance unless it's something I want a warranty on.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Bad interruption on my part as for the assembly of the birfield. I was wrong …the birfield was assembled correctly. Thanks TOOLS R US for pointing it out to me. TOOL R US has assembled and disassembled many CV joint in his time. Even though he has never done an 80 birf it look good to him. So being totally confused I headed down to Toyota and had them pull one off the shelf. Sure enough it was assembled correctly. When looking at the picture the wide shinny part (left side) goes to the wheel side or inside the bell first. The FSM is not real clear on this (at least to me).

Raven – yes the FSM diagrams sucks

Rich & Dan - Cant say for sure the way the star was installed it was in pieces

Phil

 

[Tooth Fairy]

That sucks Phil. All that I've busted, never on the 80 (phew), I've never busted an inner race like that. It's usually the cage and/or the bell.

Was it difficult to reinstall when it was put in last time? They must be able to go in backwards. Don't know I've never tried, but, I do know not to get a newfield.

What say ye?

Nice.

 

[RavenTai]

Raven – yes the FSM diagrams sucks

It is actually a very good diagram of a 60 or mini truck birf,

The 80 birf has none of the distinguishing features shown, the inner race (star) on the 80's birf is flat on both sides, it does not have the protrusions like the earlier birf, also the cage openings are all the same size, and the cage sides are the same width (measured axially) grab a dial caliper and measure the two sides of the cage they are the same, the only non symmetrical part of the cage is that one end is milled (the not shinny part) to let you insert the star into the cage, the milled end goes inboard

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=13063

 

[RavenTai]

I just happend to save the pic Christo posted before the software change:

birfield_1.jpg

 

[IdahoDoug]

Phil,

I'm having trouble deciphering your post #10. The second sentence says the birf was installed correctly, then some rambling about someone named "Tools r us" and something about a visit to the dealer. Then at the end, you tell Rich and Dan you can't say which way the star was installed as it's in pieces.

From the wear marks on the bell, I'll hold to my original opinion that the star/inner cage may have been installed backward at some point. Also, you never answered my question on the clip??

DougM

 

[yomama]

I am with Doug or not, you kind of lost me too

That pic of the bell is either misleading for some reason or it is way out of wack, look at the center of the bell and then notice the difference a around, it is like egg shaped Looks to me like the bell was hosed to begin with.

Yomama

 

[robbie]

It is really hard to install a 80 series birfield backwards if it is new, now a use one it can be done if you hammer hard on it. a reall worn one it is alot easier. That said anything is possiable. Yes 80 series birf will brake a cage first then the star as the cage is not controlling the balls. I really could not make the depth out where the balls were riding in the bell. the post from raven is correct. The cage was stress at some point and fractured, it sucks but happens.
How old is this birfield? It does not look that old. Where did you get it from?
Big tires and massive weight will also kill a birfield over time, so some time it is accumulative over time. If you had it apart in recent period of time, maybe you did not inspect the cage for cracks and assembled it with out noticing any sign of stress. it is a bummer. later robbie

 

[concretejungle]

On a slight tangent, so if one is doing a birf job, would it be safe to say that possibly a better approach would be to dip the entire axle and birf assembly in a washing station without dissasembly? This way you are not taking it apart and putting it back together and the possibility of putting it together backwards is not available. I think with a washing station you could clean the birf very effectively, i did anyways.

Once broken, then your options are obvious.

 

[Beowulf]

I do not think you can get a birf completely clean without disassembly. Once you disassemble one I think you will agree. It's not a big deal though... you'll just have some old grease and some solvent in the bowels of the assembly and that shouldn't be a worry.

As Robbie said, you can assemble one backwards (I have done it) but unless it is VERY worn it is pretty obvious that something is not right. My recommendation is to seperate both from their axles, disassemble one, clean it, reassemble and make sure it looks like the other one; repeat for the other side. According to the experts, swapping sides will help a little with wear patterns but I haven't done this yet... maybe at the 160k mark.

-B-

 

[RavenTai]

I do not think you can get a birf completely clean without disassembly. Once you disassemble one I think you will agree. -B-

Agreed there is a fairly large chamber behind the race that would be difficult to clean out and then more so to get it completely filled with new grease, added benefit is you get to rotate your birfs

I got mixed up because I did not pay attention to the joint when I took it apart I was expecting to use the FSM drawing to reassemble it, with that Cristo pic you have all the info you need to put it back together correctly,

 

[medtro]

Phil is away from his computer for a few days.