Is it a good idea to replace control arms, bearings, and end links while replacing the ball joints? (1 Viewer)

[RT Cruiser]

The driver-side ball joint is leaking grease and making a thud noise when going over bumps.


Is it wise to replace both upper and lower control arms as a full unit each and know all the bushings and ball joints have a fresh start? The rig has 240k miles.

 

[bloc]

Both ball joints and bushings can be replaced while keeping the arms, though I don’t know the cost breakdown. New arms would certainly be easier.. just bolt them in.

Wouldn’t surprise me if with your mileage it would be a big improvement.. just depends on what you are willing to spend. They definitely have aftermarket arms for tundras but ours are a different length, and I’m sure full OE assemblies will be pretty expensive.

Personally I’d evaluate condition of the remaining ball joints and bushings and replace as needed. There are write ups on how to do individual lower and upper joints on tundras and ours would be virtually identical.

 

[RT Cruiser]

@bloc Thank you (again). Very helpful. I've been gorging myself on lots of videos and write-ups of most everything under the wheel. I was up past 1am this morning researching because I could not sleep. I found videos for both the Tundras and Crusiers and as you stated, much is similar. Unless there is a frozen bolt or joint, should be fairly straightforward.

What you said makes a lot of sense to get new arms and do a simple replacement. I don't have a press to swap out the bushings. So the best way to go is to get a new uca and lca and exchange them. This will take care of the bushings and upper/lower ball joints. I'll do both sides. If there's a need for new end links then now is the time.

I've learned, even after little sleep, that eventually the struts also need to be replaced. On a good note Firestone has a coupon this month for $20 off on their lifetime alignment because I'm gonna need it.

 

[bloc]

In my experience just having a press isn’t enough. Due to the shape of the arms getting the old bushings out can be pretty interesting.

Which is to say I think you are on the right track.

If you are getting in that deep might as well verify your inner and outer tie rod ends are tight. If they don’t have resistance to manipulating the ball/socket they are worn out. Verifying this plus new arms would basically make sure your whole front end is tight.

 

[RT Cruiser]

In my experience just having a press isn’t enough. Due to the shape of the arms getting the old bushings out can be pretty interesting.

Which is to say I think you are on the right track.

If you are getting in that deep might as well verify your inner and outer tie rod ends are tight. If they don’t have resistance to manipulating the ball/socket they are worn out. Verifying this plus new arms would basically make sure your whole front end is tight.

Thanks for the affirmation. In about an hour I'm going to safely jack-up (and hold) the rig and look again at all the bushings. I'll check the tie rods also (including the status of the KDSS valves). I realized this morning the tie rod ends are not expensive so I might go ahead and replace them. But I believe in being prepared so time for a second inspection. If there is any movement in the ends they will be on the list for replacement. Thanks!

 

[linuxgod]

Check your sway bar bushings, since you have to detach the end links to get the LCA off anyway.

If you don't have the tools to press the bushings and ball joints in and out, you might see if there's a local shop that can do it for you if you bring them the parts. I think upper and lower control arms will set you back quite a bit compared to the bushings and ball joints alone. I'm pretty sure CruiserOutfitters sells the ball joints. At least for the LCA, I'd look into the sleeve kits which can help keep your LCA cam bolts from seizing up

If you're thinking about eventually lifting I would do aftermarket UCAs instead of the Toyota OEM ones to gain some adjustability. I think a pair of SPCs is about the same cost as the Toyota ones.

UCAs and LCAs, tie rods, sway bar links, etc will probably set you back $1500, maybe more. "While you're in there" can get expensive quick

 

[RT Cruiser]

Check your sway bar bushings, since you have to detach the end links to get the LCA off anyway.

If you don't have the tools to press the bushings and ball joints in and out, you might see if there's a local shop that can do it for you if you bring them the parts. I think upper and lower control arms will set you back quite a bit compared to the bushings and ball joints alone. I'm pretty sure CruiserOutfitters sells the ball joints. At least for the LCA, I'd look into the sleeve kits which can help keep your LCA cam bolts from seizing up

If you're thinking about eventually lifting I would do aftermarket UCAs instead of the Toyota OEM ones to gain some adjustability. I think a pair of SPCs is about the same cost as the Toyota ones.

UCAs and LCAs, tie rods, sway bar links, etc will probably set you back $1500, maybe more. "While you're in there" can get expensive quick

Great points @linuxgod . After a second inspection today, it appears the sway bar bushings need to be replaced. Fortunately the bolts and nuts for the uca/lca mostly appear to be rust free. I won't put on a lift kit due to increased costs and more time needed to understand all the nuances from tires, alignment, struts, etc. Though when we took it down Mineral Creek near Ouray last summer, there were a few moments I wish I had a few extra inches to clear some nagging rocks.

Yes, the cost is going to be up there. But with the mileage being 248k (we bought it at 220k) and the lower ball joint driver side going bad, and because I have several 3k mile road trips planned this year along with 4x4 trails, I'd rather take care of it now than not be stranded in the middle of nowhere or at 12,000 feet on Engineer Pass.

The last time I found a shop nearby to press a bushing out and in, they charged about $30 each. That shop closed. So it only makes sense to pay a bit more and get the full uca/lca, plus, one less errand. But it does make sense if it were a viable option.

 

[linuxgod]

I'm with you on the suspension PM at 250k.

If you will never lift the Toyota UCA is the way to go. If you do think you might want to lift one day (it's reasonable to run trails as is and wait until you feel your suspension is aged and needs to be refreshed before you consider spending the $ to add a lift) then get SPC UCAs as the cost is similar, their upper ball joints bolt in and are easy to replace in another 100-200k miles if you need them, and it'll give you the flexibility to decide on lift vs no lift down the road.

As far as lift vs no lift... the LC is very capable as built, and the lift is only going to give you another inch or two by itself. The bigger advantage is the ability to fit bigger tires without potential body contact. A body lift could alternately help there too. Bigger tires are better for clearance than a lift since they effectively raise all the components, including the LCAs.

Just my $0.02, which probably isn't worth bending over to pick up off the street.

 

[RT Cruiser]

I'm with you on the suspension PM at 250k.

If you will never lift the Toyota UCA is the way to go. If you do think you might want to lift one day (it's reasonable to run trails as is and wait until you feel your suspension is aged and needs to be refreshed before you consider spending the $ to add a lift) then get SPC UCAs as the cost is similar, their upper ball joints bolt in and are easy to replace in another 100-200k miles if you need them, and it'll give you the flexibility to decide on lift vs no lift down the road.

As far as lift vs no lift... the LC is very capable as built, and the lift is only going to give you another inch or two by itself. The bigger advantage is the ability to fit bigger tires without potential body contact. A body lift could alternately help there too. Bigger tires are better for clearance than a lift since they effectively raise all the components, including the LCAs.

Just my $0.02, which probably isn't worth bending over to pick up off the street.

I appreciate you chiming back in. I emailed a local shop to see if they would press out/in the bushings. They said "no" due to the liability.

Toyota uca a pair is $576 at an online Toyota site. Dobinson's uca for a pair is $580. I became a bit excited I could use these until I learned the Dobinson's uca is designed for lifted vehicles, otherwise performance and alignment issues might arise. The SPC uca for a pair is $670. After a call to Summit Racing, I was told the SPC uca 25465 can be installed on non-lifted vehicles without potential issues. So indeed what you said makes sense. The SPC's are the way to go if I were to consider lifting later. I called my local Firestone to see if there would be add'l cost for alignment on a lifted vehicle per the Lifetime Alignment and was told no add'l cost. I don't trust every Firestone but this one has treated us more than fair with alignment and a/c issues.

The good news is the Dobinson's rear struts, for the pair, is $230. The front struts, for the pair, is $270. If I need the front top plates they are $90 for the pair. I'm probably going to grab the Dobinson's front and rear struts.

 

[300blk]

I would replace everything, especially if you plan on keeping it.

 

[04UZJ100]

SPC is junk compared to OEM on a non lifted vehicle. And they’re questionable history with multiple catastrophic failures would have me looking elsewhere I.e. total chaos.

 

[linuxgod]

I appreciate you chiming back in. I emailed a local shop to see if they would press out/in the bushings. They said "no" due to the liability.

Toyota uca a pair is $576 at an online Toyota site. Dobinson's uca for a pair is $580. I became a bit excited I could use these until I learned the Dobinson's uca is designed for lifted vehicles, otherwise performance and alignment issues might arise. The SPC uca for a pair is $670. After a call to Summit Racing, I was told the SPC uca 25465 can be installed on non-lifted vehicles without potential issues. So indeed what you said makes sense. The SPC's are the way to go if I were to consider lifting later. I called my local Firestone to see if there would be add'l cost for alignment on a lifted vehicle per the Lifetime Alignment and was told no add'l cost. I don't trust every Firestone but this one has treated us more than fair with alignment and a/c issues.

The good news is the Dobinson's rear struts, for the pair, is $230. The front struts, for the pair, is $270. If I need the front top plates they are $90 for the pair. I'm probably going to grab the Dobinson's front and rear struts.

You can typically find the SPCs for under $600, IIRC. I think I snagged a discount and got mine for about $530 at the time

 

[linuxgod]

SPC is junk compared to OEM on a non lifted vehicle. And they’re questionable history with multiple catastrophic failures would have me looking elsewhere I.e. total chaos.

I won't get into a discussion over which one is best. I've seen anecdotal images of TC heim joints failing too or requiring early rebuilds. I've heard of SPC past issues though I've not seen any in the 200 forum since before I put them on my truck in 2017. Anecdotally I run the SPCs and I'm happy with them. I suspect the Toyota UCAs are best if you are never going to lift.

 

[RT Cruiser]

You can typically find the SPCs for under $600, IIRC. I think I snagged a discount and got mine for about $530 at the time

Oh, good to know! Going to look.....

 

[RT Cruiser]

I would replace everything, especially if you plan on keeping it.

Indeed we plan to keep it for a long time. In the past two days I looked at the frame in more detail to see how much rust needs to be mitigated. For an '08 with 248k miles out of Iowa, I'd say it looks very good underneath. I say this with a bit of hesitancy because I'm in the process of using penetrating oil the next week or so to loosen up the KDSS valves.

 

[dkscism]

How did this turn out? Did you end up going with Toyota control arms? I'm in the same boat with my 2010 w/ 220k miles.

 

[RT Cruiser]

How did this turn out? Did you end up going with Toyota control arms? I'm in the same boat with my 2010 w/ 220k miles.

Still in the research. Kudos to everyone helping me both on this thread and pm.

Right now I'm planning to replace all shocks, coils, springs, uca's, lca's, sway bar links and bushings. I've not settled on any brand for anything. Most likely I will do Toyota for the lca's. Right now I'm thinking about the same product line for all the shocks/coils/springs. But I have not settled on a brand. No idea which uca to get.

Two things I do know for certain is I will not spend thousands of dollars on the shocks/coils/springs and there is no plan in the near future to get bigger tires. My Yokohamas get great mpg, perform well, and are very quiet.

What are you leaning towards?

 

[RT Cruiser]

Also curious if anyone has done a 1.0" lift on front and rear and did not get a rear panhard rod, and what are the driving results?

Did a look in the past hour on the OME and Dobinsons. Here is how they stack up from a general perspective.

Dobinsons:
1.0" lift front coils and rear springs, standard shocks twin-tube heavy duty, control arms.
$1,505.00.
Add'l cost $90 per shock to assemble the coil, $60 to press in each ball joint.
Dobinsons is running a 5% discount. Gotta ask for the code before ordering.

OME per Slee's website:
2.0" lift front coils and rear springs, OME nitrocharger shocks, control arms (ARB).
$1,588.00
Not sure if they charge to assemble the coil.

 

[bloc]

Also curious if anyone has done a 1.0" lift on front and rear and did not get a rear panhard rod, and what are the driving results?

Did a look in the past hour on the OME and Dobinsons. Here is how they stack up from a general perspective.

Dobinsons:
1.0" lift front coils and rear springs, standard shocks twin-tube heavy duty, control arms.
$1,505.00.
Add'l cost $90 per shock to assemble the coil, $60 to press in each ball joint.
Dobinsons is running a 5% discount. Gotta ask for the code before ordering.

OME per Slee's website:
2.0" lift front coils and rear springs, OME nitrocharger shocks, control arms (ARB).
$1,588.00
Not sure if they charge to assemble the coil.

You can get about 1" lift in the front and increased down travel (which many of the lift kits won't provide) for the cost of the OEM strut spacers.. About $80. 1" doesn't require panhard or aftermarket UCA and keeping toyota long-term durability has merit over basically anything aftermarket. This won't change the damping of the shocks at all but is by far the cheapest and probably most reliable way to go to get a little bit of clearance. OME 2720s in back (~$200) would reduce squat when loaded but not add 2" of height.

Protip: contact a new landcruiser owner on the board that is about to put a lift on.. they may sell their near-new OEM UCA's for a great price.

 

[300blk]

SPC is junk compared to OEM on a non lifted vehicle. And they’re questionable history with multiple catastrophic failures would have me looking elsewhere I.e. total chaos.

The old ones were, the new ones are actually very nice.