improving flow for the 3FE’s top end (1 Viewer)

[RockDoc]

Sort of a double post as I've been updating the 2FE thread more than this one. The 2FE has been in for about a week and a half now, and from timing some acceleration runs, the change from the stock 3FE to the warmed 2FE seems to have netted in the neighborhood of 20% increase in power doing 0-100km/h (torque convertor mostly unlocked over that range) and nearly 40% increase doing 80-120km/h (torque convertor locked in 3rd gear). While the bump in low end torque doesn't jump out and kick you in the pants, the truck definitely holds speed and accelerates on hills much nicer in OD now than it did with the stock 3FE. I'd still like to throw something nice on for a muffler though, and see if that makes any further improvement.

 

[red803f]

G'day Rockdoc!! I have been doing a little scournging round for info on the 2f/3f engines on the net and paricularly info on giving these engines a little more sting, stumbled across your incredible thread and it has taken me (on and off) days to read nearly all the way through this thread and I am impressed with the detail and creativity you have put into playing with your 2fe hybrid. as i am only a noob to the site and this thread is a little old and has been abandoned for a little while first thing i am going to do is ask how is the 2fe going nearly 2 years on after the last post on here? did you get around to adding the exhaust? this thread has given me a lot of interest in building a 2f/3f hybrid myself (its been to long since i built my last engine).

 

[RockDoc]

The 2FE is still going strong, just loaded the 62 up for a trip out to Calgary (~1150 km each way) and some wheeling in the Rockies this coming weekend. There are a few more recent posts in the 2FE thread (click here), but heres a quick update.

I have a bit over 30 000 kms on it now, other than a few initial bugs I haven't had any significant problems. I did find a few months ago that when the engine is really working it can make more heat than the stock cooling system can handle (I was towing a FJ55 on the highway in 25-30*C weather). A bit before that 2.5" exhaust with a magnaflow muffler was put on (thanks largely to CodyC). That gave a noticable seat of the pants improvement, expecially higher in the revs.

 

[red803f]

Awesome, I've got to replace the head gasket and the exhaust system to get it legal for the road again, the 2 1/2 system was going to be one of the first things done, then hunt around for a 2f to start the project. I have read in other places via google about taking the block out 0.060 and take the same off the head but if my dodgy maths is correct a 2f bored .060" with a standard original compression ratio of 8.1:1 will take capacity to 4.522 lt and nudge static comp to 9.7:1, even with a hot camshaft that will probably be to high and at least will need 96 octane premium fuel, that won't worry me if it doesn't ping on that, premium will only be a few more dollars per load of fuel, will have to try it and see

 

[lehiguy]

Awesome, I've got to replace the head gasket and the exhaust system to get it legal for the road again, the 2 1/2 system was going to be one of the first things done, then hunt around for a 2f to start the project. I have read in other places via google about taking the block out 0.060 and take the same off the head but if my dodgy maths is correct a 2f bored .060" with a standard original compression ratio of 8.1:1 will take capacity to 4.522 lt and nudge static comp to 9.7:1, even with a hot camshaft that will probably be to high and at least will need 96 octane premium fuel, that won't worry me if it doesn't ping on that, premium will only be a few more dollars per load of fuel, will have to try it and see

I did that exact thing to my old 2F, but I took .070" off the head. It did require premium fuel (or timing retarded to the point of running doggy) but the thing ran great. Best running F series motor I ever drove.

 

[red803f]

I'm going to leave the head at a standard height and just clean it up/get it reco'd, the bottom end will be balanced, .060" over bore, obviously new pistons and rings and a warm cam. The first part will getting the truck on the road with extractors and a 2.5 in system and change the head gasket.

 

[Yspen]

IIRC correctly the displacement of 0.060 overbore ( or 1,5mm ) is 4386cc

See the decal I had made for my truck

Currently I am doing the efi thing . Biggest cost was shipping the head to South Africa ( we never got the 3F-E in SA ) .
Personally I feel the best way to do 2F-E is to use aftermarket ECU as it is simpler and newer technology . ( eg MAP vs AFM ).

Good Luck

 

[red803f]

Ok knew my maths was dodgy

 

[RockDoc]

Just got back from a wheeling weekend in the mountains. Turns out the cooling system can keep up with the 2FE at full mustard...... if the fan clutch isn't on the way out. It failed pretty much completely on Friday, but all cooling issues went away after hose clamping the clutch. I also learned that my cheapo mechanical water temp gauge is a POS.

 

[red803f]

I don't know about over there but in Australia we can by the silicon goo that goes inside the fan hub, just have to pull the fan out and split the hub in half to put it in. Engages the fan easier with more in it. From memory last time I did it the tube cost about $10 aud

 

[RockDoc]

I don't know about over there but in Australia we can by the silicon goo that goes inside the fan hub, just have to pull the fan out and split the hub in half to put it in. Engages the fan easier with more in it. From memory last time I did it the tube cost about $10 aud

I've seen a few threads on that here on mud, but am checking with a few of the local cruiserheads to see what kind of success they've had doing this. So far it doesn't sound overly encouraging, but I think I'll try it before accepting either the cost of a new clutch, or the noise and power draw of a fixed fan. If it doesn't hold out long, I can always throw a hose clamp back on till I have a chance to give it a more permanent fix.

 

[red803f]

i did it to a hilux surf, the fan engaged earlier and had more power for sucking air through the radiator. if that doesn't float your boat then look at an electric cooling fan, they free up some hp at the same time because there is less physical load on the engine

 

[RockDoc]

i did it to a hilux surf, the fan engaged earlier and had more power for sucking air through the radiator. if that doesn't float your boat then look at an electric cooling fan, they free up some hp at the same time because there is less physical load on the engine

Did the one on the sulf hold up for a long period of time? I helped refill one once, but a year later it crapped out again. I've heard similar experiences from others who gave up and pinned or welded theirs after an unsuccessful attempt or three.

 

[red803f]

it kept going untill the car was sold, the fan was a bit piss weak that is why i did it, the fan was probably a bit over the top after.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/601888-worth-doing-blue-hub-fan-clutch-mod.html
in that thread they are talking about different grades of silicon oil for them

 

[FJ40Jim]

IIRC correctly the displacement of 0.060 overbore ( or 1,5mm ) is 4386cc

Very close. 4367cc is displacement with a 1.50mm overbore on a 2F.

Stock CR for most 81-later 2F is 8.3.
1.5mm overbore increases CR to 8.6.

Be careful taking much more off the head or block, or it will rattle on regular gas.

A radical cam will reduce effective CR, but also reduces tork at low RPM (which is the only thing a 2F is good at).

 

[HawkGunner]

Necro post... sorry.

@RockDoc , how has your build held up? I'm planning on doing a very similar thing to a 2F... because it's there and I can sorta thing.

I was interested to see the use of solid film lubricant on your internal components. I used to work and crew on H-60 helicopters, and we used SFL on the pins that held the main rotor blades to the rotor head as a sacrificial preservative and lubricant for the component.

When that stuff is applied and baked on properly, it seems to be nearly impervious to wear. We were required to pull the blade pins every 120 flight hours and replace the SFL... but that normally included scrubbing (for hours) the old stuff off with methyl ethyl ketone or denatured alcohol and an abrasive pad. Point being, it held up well to a 300lb blade being slung around at 230ish RPM for 120 hours.

Have you had occasion to pull things apart and see how has it held up inside the engine? I know guys use it on race engines that get rebuilt frequently, but I'm curious about the real longevity of the coating.

 

[RockDoc]

It has held up very well. This truck was pretty much my daily driver until ~2014, and continued to get sporadic use and wheeling up through 2016. I should check the mileage when I'm home and see how many kms/miles I've put on the 2FE. I'm going to guess over 120 000km. Other than fan clutch troubles, I don't recall ever having a significant issue with the engine. It's been spun up to 5000 rpm winter wheeling, and it towed a fair number of heavy loads before I got a 3/4 ton.

The truck itself is pretty badly rusted and beaten now, but I have a clean 62 roller to swap the engine into when I get around to it. It would be interesting to open it up and check on the coatings when I move the engine over....

I ended up building a second 2FE that I put into a FJ55 wheeler with a SM420, I did some of the same port-shaping work on the head for that one, but a little less aggressive, and didn't do coatings as I had a low mile bottom end for it and didn't disassemble.

 

[HawkGunner]

It has held up very well. This truck was pretty much my daily driver until ~2014, and continued to get sporadic use and wheeling up through 2016. I should check the mileage when I'm home and see how many kms/miles I've put on the 2FE. I'm going to guess over 120 000km. Other than fan clutch troubles, I don't recall ever having a significant issue with the engine. It's been spun up to 5000 rpm winter wheeling, and it towed a fair number of heavy loads before I got a 3/4 ton.

The truck itself is pretty badly rusted and beaten now, but I have a clean 62 roller to swap the engine into when I get around to it. It would be interesting to open it up and check on the coatings when I move the engine over....

I ended up building a second 2FE that I put into a FJ55 wheeler with a SM420, I did some of the same port-shaping work on the head for that one, but a little less aggressive, and didn't do coatings as I had a low mile bottom end for it and didn't disassemble.

If you do happen to take a peak inside, post some pictures. I would be surprised if all the coating is still there.

But I figure if it takes 50k or 60k miles miles for it to wear off, that's like getting an extra 60k miles for free out of your engine. The return on investment is definitely worth it.

 

[Chachi254]

For anyone needing to see the photos that aren't loading anymore, you can still access them by following the steps below (also shown in the attached gif):
1) Right-click on the broken image link
2) Select "Inspect Element" from the menu
3) Find the data-url="http://....com" in the HTML code
4) Copy ONLY the http://...com url
5) Open a new tab and paste the url
6) Press enter
7) Voila! See the photo! (example: http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn276/RockDoc_photos/altered%20head/IMG_5245.jpg)