If I Were to Start All Over Again with a Stock GX470, I Would... (1 Viewer)

[Jstawgn]

Suspension is the most objective subject. I was out of 4X4 scene for 15 year becaue I got tired with excessive body roll, brake dive and rough ride. Plus raising kids took most of my off roading time away.

When ARB released BP-51 i was set to buy another 4x4 just to install this suspension. Big bore, adjustable and bypass shock really spark my interest at that time. Some things that turn me off is the spherical bushing and tbe cold noise issue. I heard the noise issue have been resolved but keep hearing the spherical joint going bad after a year or two.

End up with GX470 with KDSS because it was the cheapest that can fit that suspension. Interestingly after driving a bit with KDSS it does not seem to need more complex suspension to achieve my goal.

After a few months waiting to save the money to buy BP-51, Tough Dog was trying to get into GX market and have a group buy. I jump on that opportunity because the simple design, adjustability quiter and more reliable rubber bushing plus the killer introductory price. I could say i made the right decision. Its been performing way above expectations. I could run it very soft, sporty or even very firm when heavily loaded. The adjustment is easy to do and offer much more flexibility for me.
Unfortunately it seem they do not support this platform much in US any more.

 

[DRANGED]

@Vlad Whoa dude. That's a lot of code talk right there
I'm not sure so many new to GX and new to off-road will understand or appreciate all those specs (self inclusive).
E.g. can you further articulate and define the 'stages'? This is also a question I've had for Metal Tech and Icon... what do the stages mean and describe?

To be sure, there is a learning curve we all go through and there is some reasonable expectation of going through the steps to appreciate them that I think is worth mentioning in this thread...

If someone went from stock to icon stage 7, would they appreciate it vs. baby-stepping and learning the rig's capabilities while traversing the learning stages?

I think it's pretty common for people to get into an entry-level lift, get comfortable with it then want more which they might not fully appreciate or understand had they not learned the vehicle along the way, but there may be some packages that allow the learning without the pain of redoing. And that is also NOT to say just jumping into a full set-up isn't a good way to go, especially with the pay once cry once.
I feel the bilstein and dobinsoin's are in that ballpark of good entry level lift mod, but maybe there's a better configuration to give the performance gains of lift without the costs of ride quality and without missing a smart step.

Like going from stock to a 3" OME. you miss the growing stages of evolving the camping setup for longer trips and increasing payload which an OME would be good for down the road while a Bil or Dob would give you the clearance to learn and explore, but a dob with UCA could buy you longer time of growing with fewer parts to swap later...

I dunno if this stream of consciousness is making sense...

I guess we're trying to figure out if there are steps to skip and steps to expereince to get to the same place... but the challenge is that that place is not a single target and sometimes the getting there is really the important part of the journey.



I like to tell myself that my stock rig is amazing and all I could want... but then i do that one trail and recognize an inch or two of lift would make it less harrowing and more comfortable and would be like safety insurance ... but then i'd probably just find that next trail where with the 2" lift I'm pushing it a little more and maybe a different shock/spring setup would've made the trip a little less harrowing, etc.

Thus the slippery slope afforded by the 'Y' chromosome?

 

[DRANGED]

@Jstawgn
I resonate with some of that, and you're coming into GX with a lot more background 4x4 experience (than me at least).
I've got KDSS in my 07 and LOVE IT! I dig the functionality of AVS and auto-leveling airbags and am hesitant to ditch all that for a less flexible system affording more clearance. BUT given what's on the market now, I do see how the gains may be worth some costs.

I like the twin-tube design of dobinson's vs. monotube bils, and the progressive springs Dobs offers would provide compliant ride quality (esp as a DD) AND load capacity, plus leveling airbags are always an option for the annual or biennial heavy 1200# payload of a multi-day trip.

I can't speak to the suspensions you mentioned and maybe I should add that to the radar. The Ironman foam cell pros are VERY intriguing for performance by design and robust build quality and it's not just the marketing and so could be a good skip the entry-level and go for the next level RE: suspension and lift.... and in hind sight @ $1500 for a full kit, not really too far off from the Dob's kit.
Part of this comes from watching a buddy build his rig. He's done a bil 5100 fron lifted @1" and an alcan leaf pack @ 700# over stock and 1.5" lift (X-terra). but now he's considering shackles to gain another inch and either hoisting the 5100s more or ditching them for a solid 2" that doesn't sacrifice down travel... ergo I'm observing the stages and, per this thread's intent, want to skip what can be skipped while gaining what is valuable..

 

[little_joe]

Really appreciate this picking up my 09 GX today, but have been researching to death everything I plan on (just need the $$$ lol) but the FEEL of the suspension is one that is really hard to nail down without finding someone with that setup and convincing them to give you a ride. I like you want comfortable at everyday pace. I had a 99 Tacoma with an OME setup and it felt like riding in on a buck board on the street (granted it had leafs in the back and an empty bed most of the time)... but I want something that is as good if not better than stock feel on street. I'm really leaning towards the Dobinsons

Your point about trying other suspensions is spot on, wish I would have/could have done that. With so many offerings now, though, it may be quite a task to try them all - so maybe focus on just a few.

I will say that over time, I have become happier with my suspension: finally went with Radflo's rear springs, and removed my front sway bar (which is just another front spring - yeah I know it's purpose, but it stiffens things up and I'm ok w/ the added sway since I usually drive like a 100 yr old person).

So GXOR has become a brand, huh. The other shoe drops.

 

[GXO]

Your point about trying other suspensions is spot on, wish I would have/could have done that. With so many offerings now, though, it may be quite a task to try them all - so maybe focus on just a few.

I will say that over time, I have become happier with my suspension: finally went with Radflo's rear springs, and removed my front sway bar (which is just another front spring - yeah I know it's purpose, but it stiffens things up and I'm ok w/ the added sway since I usually drive like a 100 yr old person).

So GXOR has become a brand, huh. The other shoe drops.

Just a brand. Not products. Going non profit to donate profits to charities members vote on

 

[Jstawgn]

Your point about trying other suspensions is spot on, wish I would have/could have done that

That is why I always prefer adjustable suspension. Every setup is different. Tire in different size, brand and type impact ride and handling in some way. The amount of accessories or armor and load onboard sre different. Adjustable suspension gives a lot more flexibility to handle all that variation.

Toughdog recommended setting is 4-6 front and rear. The fixed one supposed to be equal to setting 6. With E rated tire and KDSS, it was way too stiff. I am running 3 front and 2 rear to give better than stock on P rated tire ride and still sporty habdlong. Again this is just subjective preference, no accelerator meter logging to compare and prove. But i am really happy to be able to do that. Had I bought a fixed suspension i would have to live with it or buy another setup.

 

[ArBrnSnpr]

I have Icon medium springs in the rear and 650# fronts. My rears are 2.0 and my fronts are 2.5 non resi.
Since installing my suspension, which I was really happy with at first, I have added, a steel bumper, winch, sliders, larger 10 ply tires, drawers, fridge (ARB elements is HEAVY!), roof top tent and roof rack. My suspension now feels really maxed out.
I have some metal tech 3" heavy springs in the garage I'm considering throwing on but waiting until I do sliders.
Once I do sliders, I'm planning to increase to a 2.5" rear shock but need something that will match my extended travel MT springs.

My main take away has been that I will inevitably spend more money doing something twice if I do all other mods in stages. I wouldn't want heavy springs with no drawers or fridge, ect. But my mediums are now overburdened.
Basically, I wouldn't change anything unless I had about $10k at my disposal when I first started.
I just wish there was a better used parts market for these vehicles!

 

[ebbs15]

Your point about trying other suspensions is spot on, wish I would have/could have done that. With so many offerings now, though, it may be quite a task to try them all - so maybe focus on just a few.

I will say that over time, I have become happier with my suspension: finally went with Radflo's rear springs, and removed my front sway bar (which is just another front spring - yeah I know it's purpose, but it stiffens things up and I'm ok w/ the added sway since I usually drive like a 100 yr old person).

So GXOR has become a brand, huh. The other shoe drops.

unfortunately no members around me, according to the GX Map... I'm in Spokane. It is what it is though, and I'll just research for a little longer, and then make the best choice I can. I can walk to work, but will be driving down to Oregon somewhat a couple times a year(family) and don't want to spoil this truck with a poorly tuned (for my liking) suspension. Been there Done that.

 

[ebbs15]

That is why I always prefer adjustable suspension. Every setup is different. Tire in different size, brand and type impact ride and handling in some way. The amount of accessories or armor and load onboard sre different. Adjustable suspension gives a lot more flexibility to handle all that variation.

Toughdog recommended setting is 4-6 front and rear. The fixed one supposed to be equal to setting 6. With E rated tire and KDSS, it was way too stiff. I am running 3 front and 2 rear to give better than stock on P rated tire ride and still sporty habdlong. Again this is just subjective preference, no accelerator meter logging to compare and prove. But i am really happy to be able to do that. Had I bought a fixed suspension i would have to live with it or buy another setup.

Yeah but but adjustability only goes so far. For example... I MUCH prefer a progresive shock, vs Digressive. and I know which brands are what (to a point... trying to find out on the dobsons)

but if I didn't know that, and bought Adjustable Icon vs an Adjustable King or Fox I would be upset because of the stiffness at low speeds. Some people love the Icons, some have Progressive valved Icons... so even comparing what looks like the same thing can lead to very different results.

 

[Jstawgn]

I MUCH prefer a progresive shock, vs Digressive. and I know which brands are what (to a point... trying to find out on the dobsons)

Its all tuning tool. Used wrong and it would give unintended result. All out racing suspension got no place in actual daily driver.

Elka have different slow speed and high speed adjustment, people seems to really like that to try somewhat linear valving. Low speed vaving control cornering handling and the high speed control bigger bumps.

Upcoming Dobinsons MRA are even that plus adjustable rebound to be able to compensate for different spring rate. Dobinson MRA really spark my interest and would be my next mid travel upgrade from standard travel Toughdog. The triple adjustable and still use rubber bushing should be really good off road while maintaining good durability and low NVH for dailly driver. Its not big bore racing shock but i do not live near a desert to be able to even remotely try that.

 

[ebbs15]

Its all tuning tool. Used wrong and it would give unintended result. All out racing suspension got no place in actual daily driver.

Elka have different slow speed and high speed adjustment, people seems to really like that to try somewhat linear valving. Low speed vaving control cornering handling and the high speed control bigger bumps.

Upcoming Dobinsons MRA are even that plus adjustable rebound to be able to compensate for different spring rate. Dobinson MRA really spark my interest and would be my next mid travel upgrade from standard travel Toughdog. The triple adjustable and still use rubber bushing should be really good off road while maintaining good durability and low NVH for dailly driver. Its not big bore racing shock but i do not live near a desert to be able to even remotely try that.

100% agree

and I'll have to look into the MRA's... buy once cry once

 

[GXDude]

BURN IT AND PUSH IT OFF A CLIFF.

Damn thing cost me too much hahah

 

[ArBrnSnpr]

Anyone have a link to the MRA? I did a quick search and didn't come up with anything.

 

[Jstawgn]

Anyone have a link to the MRA? I did a quick search and didn't come up with anything.

 

[scmcna]

6 ply BFG KO2's , everything else I've done to it I'm pretty happy with.

Why not KO2S

 

[half k cruiser]

Why not KO2S

I'm not following you.

 

[GXO]

Starting over I would have SO much more available. I would be doing a LOT of things differently, and buying once and crying a lot. But, I would have a similar setup I have now. I have now been at it over 10 years with my GX so I have forgotten more than some people know by now lol

 

[mexellent]

We've done a lot of lift installs on GX's, 4Runners, FJ Cruisers, etc.

I will share a little bit of what we have learned:

-Check the condition of your lower control arms before you make your budget. The "youngest" GX470 is now 12 years old so chances are your bushings are going to be shot and you will need to replace them. Toyota OEM LCA's are definitely the best but you can find adequate solutions for a lower price if you don't want to go OEM. Also, if your LCA cam bolts are seized you will need to purchase new ones (bolts and LCA's).

-Generally the more money you spend on a lift kit the better ride you will have and that's about the biggest difference between all the "extended travel" kits on the market. A truck with OME's or Dobinsons will, for the most part, be just as capable as a truck that has Kings/Icon/Elka kits, but the higher end stuff will be way more comfortable.

-Just because you spend more money doesn't mean stuff is going to last longer. The high end shocks will need to be rebuilt every 20k-50k depending on how good you take care of them. They wear out because dirt on the shaft wears out the seal that keeps the oil in there. Dirt and debris gets in there and contaminates the fluid and that wears out the parts in there. Dude's who wheel their truck a lot and are hard on their equipment may need to rebuild shocks once a year (wheeling every weekend and general hoonage). Dude's who just do a lot of highway driving and generally keep their rigs pretty clean will probably be able to get 5+ years between rebuilds.

-If you plan on getting bumpers, it may seem like a good idea to go ahead and get a kit designed for the extra weight now so you can save money. Usually the heavier sprung kits on a stock weight vehicle ride REALLY rough. You will hate your life and your truck. It's definitely more expensive to do everything in one go but man, will you be happier.

 

[WReedDCVet]

deleted

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I can’t comment on KDSS but my APEX recovery points fit perfectly on my GX470 non kdss model. In fact, I did a video and photos of the installation that I proudly installed myself.

no drilling required. I did have to remove the sway bracket to slide the apex recovery point under the bracket, but everything lined up and bolted into place. Recovery points share 2 bolts with sway bar brackets and another bolt holding something else.

Check to make sure your mechanic considered that bolt holes on frame are shared. But then again, kdss is different so it might not fit at all.