if clutch is in backwards... (12 Viewers)

[gnavarroo]

if clutch is in backwards will it still disengage? just installed a new clutch now I'm having this problem; the tranny shifts when engine is off. When engine is running I can not put it into gear (with clutch pedal all the way down). the clutch pedal feels normal, the hydaulics are obviously working as I can see the clutch fork move (looking through the t'case shifter hole). ALSO.. today I got under the truck, removed the clutch inspection cover and had someone step on the pedal while I watched the clutch... It was disengaging the flywheel (putting a gap between clutch plate and flywheel). Would the clutch move like this if it were in backwards? I have yet to do the inspection while the truck is running and in neutral. Is there something to look for that will tell me more by inspecting while the motor is running?
Sorry to beat a dead horse... I figured I'd start a new thread with my specific problem and try all suggestions. Hoping to come up with ammunition for this next weekend.

 

[D'Animal]

How did you install it? One side of the friction disk has a longer side to the center sleeve that slides on the shaft.

Is this pointing towards the engine or the transmission?

 

[gnavarroo]

How did you install it? One side of the friction disk has a longer side to the center sleeve that slides on the shaft.

Is this pointing towards the engine or the transmission?

I'm pretty sure I put it in with longer side of the sleeve toward tranny

 

[Fonz185]

I pulled my gearbox out and found that the plate was in backwards!
It still worked fine but it had ground a bit of the flywheel bolt heads with the lash springs. So the side where the spring hang out more goes towards the box.

 

[Heartworm]

Been there, done that

Your clutch plate is in backwards. Even if the plate will move a little, the bolts on the flywheel are stuck on the clutch plate. You have the same set of signs as mine had.

 

[gnavarroo]

Damn!

Son of Bee-otch! I really was hoping for some other explanation that didn't involve pulling the tranny... well it will have to come out the way it did the first time... a little at a time. My issue was getting someone to help me get this thing out and back in again. Wanna find out who your true friends are? Ask for help with some heavy lifting on a weekend and see how many returned phone calls you get! ...lol. Deep breaths, George... it's doable. did it once, can do it again. And besides, it looks like I'm not the only dope that's done this That's what's really making me feel better right now. I just hope that it is a backwards clutch plate and NOTHING else

 

[Godwin]

Just think it will be easier the second time

Last time I did a clutch job on a 60 I spent all weekend on it and had to round up help to get the tranny and t-case in place. Wrapped everything up on Sunday afternoon, fired it up, put in in gear and the Cruiser would not move. By that time I was physically beat. I spent the next few hours going over the procedure in my mind trying to figure out what I did wrong and I convinced myself that I had installed the disc in backwards. Jumped back on it the next morning and had stripped everything down to the clutch in about 1 1/2 hours. Then began reinstalling and double-checking each step. What I learned was that the clutch disc had been installed properly. Well after another full day I had everything back together. This time I was more careful in rechecking the position of the levers and what I discovered was that I had previously knocked the t-case lever into N and that was why the clutch did not seem to be engaging. Like I said, it's easier the 2nd time.

 

[2mbb]

It will be much faster and easier the second time, especially since is so soon after the first. You will remember all the little tricks about which socket and extension to use to get to which bolt, etc.

Try and get the same friend to help, because he will be trained, too, and it will be less work for you. I helped a friend drop then re install a transmission in his series III swb rover (two separate days). For the re install there were three of us, the owner, myself, and the friend who had previously done the did the V8/trans conversion (a professional wrench). The pro and I spent most of our time under the truck getting the transmission back in. The owner spent most of his time putting one or two bolts back in the radiator shroud. We gave him a hard time about doing so little, but he claimed the bolts were really difficult to get in.

 

[gnavarroo]

Just think it will be easier the second time

...This time I was more careful in rechecking the position of the levers and what I discovered was that I had previously knocked the t-case lever into N and that was why the clutch did not seem to be engaging. Like I said, it's easier the 2nd time.

So you pulled it out for nothing when all you had to do was shift that sucker into 2H or was it more complicated than that? I actually checked the t'case lever when I first discovered the clutch was not working... to bad that wasn't it. I think it will be ok. I just had a hard time accepting that I had messed up like this (assuming the clutch is in backwards I'm still in a bit of denial). At least now I'm hoping that's what it IS. Hope it's nothing else. I'm psyc'ed now... ready to hit it for a couple hours after work tonight! We'll see how far I get with out anyone's physical help. I should be able to get it out by my self. The buddy that helped put it back in is going out of town this week-end. Already called him telling him about my screw up... at least he laughed. We'll see how it goes. Hey, maybe we can get a CFU's (common F**k UPs) link in teh FAQ's section and at the top will be "Clutch in BACKWARDS" HA!
GN

 

[Heartworm]

Yeah! A CFU thread would be great! My experiences would fill up at least a page.

 

[gnavarroo]

well...

Went at it for 3 hours after work... everyone was right, much, much quicker removing it than last time! It practically flew out! However, it looks as though the clutch is in right If the long side of that sleeve is suposed to face the tranny then it is in right. WTF!
The pilot bearing spins free too. I don't know. Unless someone tells me that the long side goes to the engine and is solid on that, I don't know what else to think.

 

[Pathfinder]

It sounds like your slave cylinder is not is not pushing the clutch fork in enough. Try adjusting the shaft that attaches to clutch fork.

 

[2mbb]

The friction disc should have writing on it indicating which is the engine side and/or which is the transmission side. If it's still out, put a little bit of MP grease on the transmission input shaft splines. I had an intermittent hard/no shifting problem and this was one thing I did the thrid & last time the transmission was out...

Went at it for 3 hours after work... everyone was right, much, much quicker removing it than last time! It practically flew out! However, it looks as though the clutch is in right If the long side of that sleeve is suposed to face the tranny then it is in right. WTF!
The pilot bearing spins free too. I don't know. Unless someone tells me that the long side goes to the engine and is solid on that, I don't know what else to think.

 

[gnavarroo]

yep tranny is still out. It will be out until I can sweet talk someone into helping me put it back in. I had put grease on ALL of those parts indicated by the FSM. The only thing is I didn't know how heavy to go. Should I really butter it up this next time? As far as the writting on the plate; I specifically remember looking for some indication and I found none. I am thinking of removing the pressure plate and the clutch disk (they are not out) in an attempt to realign the clutch disk to the pilot... and yes, the pilot bearing spins freely. I observed as I inserted the alignment tool into the already installed clutch that it was tight as hell! Had to pull it out with vise-grips and I noticed that the splined edges of the plastic tool were scored after doing so... should it be that tight of a fit even if it is a new clutch plate?

 

[2mbb]

I don't think you want to butter the splines, but lightly grease them. If you do remove the friction disc, then test how tight it fits on the transmission input shaft. I don't know that the tightness of the clutch alignment tool is an indication of anything.

 

[gnavarroo]

yep!


Called Man-a-fre (whom I bought the clutch from) today and confirmed it. The stinkin' clutch is in BACKWARDS. What a fn' surprise (yeah, I know) . Some of you guys told me so. Spoke to some one in tech support, they were awesome. the guy actually went out and picked a clutch out of their stock and confirmed by matching me up to the pic on their web site. And double checked with another tech. I say again Son of a bee-otch! Needless to say, the clutch got flipped around and installed correctly this evening. Should have made that phone call the first time! Took 5 min. Installing tranny first time then removing took… don’t want to go there. Anyway, I Got a real good alignment on it this time. I noticed that if the splines aren't lined up well enough to the pilot bearing the tool is tough to pull out. Get a good alignment and the tool comes out real easy. I imagine that it will also help in installing the input shaft through there. Thanks for all of your replies, guys
George

 

[bridge253]

Called Man-a-fre (whom I bought the clutch from) today and confirmed it. The stinkin' clutch is in BACKWARDS. What a fn' surprise (yeah, I know) . Some of you guys told me so. Spoke to some one in tech support, they were awesome. the guy actually went out and picked a clutch out of their stock and confirmed by matching me up to the pic on their web site. And double checked with another tech. I say again Son of a bee-otch! Needless to say, the clutch got flipped around and installed correctly this evening. Should have made that phone call the first time! Took 5 min. Installing tranny first time then removing took… don’t want to go there. Anyway, I Got a real good alignment on it this time. I noticed that if the splines aren't lined up well enough to the pilot bearing the tool is tough to pull out. Get a good alignment and the tool comes out real easy. I imagine that it will also help in installing the input shaft through there. Thanks for all of your replies, guys
George

So you had installed the clutch with the long side of the sleeve pointing toward the tranny and then found that to be the wrong way? I am very interested in this because Ive been dealing with this exact problem for months now. Exact same issue youve had and I looked at the book ten times.

 

[gnavarroo]

So you had installed the clutch with the long side of the sleeve pointing toward the tranny and then found that to be the wrong way?
That is correct. The guy at man-a-fre specifically pointed out the white stenciled # DT-075 on the clutch plate (at least their product has this stenciled on it). The side that has this number is the side that goes toward the tranny and is also the side with the SHORTER splined center sleeve. http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/clutchkitdiaphragmstyle.htm

see the stencil... see what that side looks like? that's what you should be looking at when it's installed under the pressure plate.
Now how easy was that to put into words corresponding to a pic?

The true evidence for me was the scars left on the fly wheel bolts made by the springs or what ever was catching on to them. There are small gouges on each of the flyweel bolts.
The clutch plate is now flipped around, torqued and ready for the tranny. Unfortunately I'm getting ready to get really busy starting tomorrow and my help can't make it until some time next week. Unless something changes in scheduling for both of us, tranny's not going back in until next week some time.

 

[D'Animal]

Glad you found the problem and found the solution.

 

[gnavarroo]

zzzzzzzzz

Glad you found the problem and found the solution.

We'll see about that. I might get the tranny back in and learn later that this flat clutch plate has a 3rd side or some BS like that
I feel a little better now. I was in such a hurry for a while. Now, I almost don't give a fig when it gets done... Just want it to be done right. I started off that way... Should have kept that attitude