I want a welder for Christmas, any tips?

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Hey everyone,
For Christmas I would like to get a welder. I have NO welding skills at all, so I would be starting from scratch. I want to be able to weld the body and frames of rusty cars/trucks. What is the best type/brand of welder to get? What type would be able to grow with me as my skills grow? Also what welder is the best for a person to start out with? I guess I would like to be able to plug it into a regular plug. Any ideas?


Thanks,
Zack
 
Great question, don't think I've seen any threads about welders...
chair.gif
:D

IMO the 'easiest' welders are something you can power off normal house power (i.e. 110volt) outlet. I had a Lincoln WeldPak 100, which worked great, it comes setup for flux-core welding, which is basically the wire-feed version of stick welding, where the flux (what cleans the rusty metal and helps the new added-in metal to stick) is already built into the welding process, so you just turn it on and go. The downside to this is the welds aren't as pretty and clean always (splatter, which is little molten bits of metal that kinda fly around and like to stick to about anything, especially skin). The upside of fluxcore welding is because of the thickness of the wire (0.035" typically for fluxcore wire) you can weld thicker metal than a same-power-rated welder would welding with the other process which is MIG (metal inert gas) welding. With MIG the wire is just pure wire, no flux in it or anything, to keep the weld from oxidizing too fast, as you weld the welder sprays out a shield of inert gas (i.e. something that won't oxidize metal) around your weld. This works to keep your new weld nice, pretty, strong, etc..the downside is this is not a replacement for flux as far as cleaning dirty metal during the welding process, so a MIG setup requires a much cleaner metal to start on, the welds are stronger than flux-core (since there is no flux mixed into the molten stuff), but the welding area has to be clean to get the weld to stick at all.

A stick welder is cheap and (for the price) very powerful, meaning you can crank it up and burn through some serious steel. However, for general purpose welding I think a wirefeed welder is soooo much easier to learn and more practical.

Many welder can be converted from fluxcore mode to MIG mode by adding a internal solenoid kit (to turn the inert gas flow on/off) and a few other bits. I did that to my WeldPak 100, which was nifty (MIG kit for it was ~$90 at Lowes), but it couldn't weld as thick of steel (and it can't weld terribly thick anyway), so that made pretty welds, but not really all that practical.

As your skills grow is a iffy area, since it all depends on what you're welding, I know 30+ year experience welders who love to weld on their cheap 110v welder, it's easy and the actual welding itself is all about technique, a good welder (person) can make a cheap piece of equipment seem great, and a crappy welder (person) still can't make good welds with top notch equipment.

Personally I would look at buying a Lincoln 110v welder, many on ebay, small, fun welders, 3 yr warranty when bought new, etc...
 
Millermatic 210.

See many recent posts on this topic.
 
So is there a huge difference in the strength of MIG welds v Flux welds?

Thanks,
Zack
 
Uh.... sounds like you are looking for a grinder as well.

Rust does not weld very well. Cleaned steel does. :-)

#2... MIG vs Flux... well um....

Flux CORED wire is a type of MIG welding wire. Instead of (or as well as) using a shielding gas like argon or AR/CO2 mix the "IG" of MIG (inert gas) which comes in a bottle, the "IG" comes in a solid form INSIDE the wire. When the arc is struck and the wire melts, the Flux CORE of the wire becomes a gas, to shield the weld, then solidifiies on the surface of the weld to protect it untill it cools. (AFAIK)

SO... if your question was MIG vs Stick...

Mig is much easier once you get the hang of it, however, good stick welding practices will make you a better MIG welder.

TIG is a totally different boat.

All 3 have their uses and simplicities and dificulties.

TIG would not likely be a good choice for welding frames, but excellent for making your own roll cage out of chromolly. MIG is easiest to use out of position, stick has the fastest setup time.

Get some books, take a course - they will be more helpful than having welder "A" vs welder "B"
 
Oh, as for strength, that comes from the alloy of the wire or rod that you are using.

6018 rod has a tensile strength of 60,000 PSI
7018 rod has a tensile strength of 70,000 PSI

Can't for the life of me remember an alloy of steel wire for MIG. Someone must have one off the top of their head that they can compare.

The alloy used to weld should ALWAYS be stronger than the material you are welding
 
I did that to my WeldPak 100, which was nifty (MIG kit for it was ~$90 at Lowes), but it couldn't weld as thick of steel

Huh?? Turn it up!!

I can weld 1/2" plate with 0.035 solid wire and I have never had my machine above 28V.

What happened when you tried to weld thick steel? - and what do you call thick? (2" !!??!?!)
 
Huh?? Turn it up!!

I can weld 1/2" plate with 0.035 solid wire and I have never had my machine above 28V.

What happened when you tried to weld thick steel? - and what do you call thick? (2" !!??!?!)

Uhm...this was on a WeldPak 100 (as I mentioned)...which with a MIG setup maxes out thickness-wise at about 16 guage, maybe 20 guage, not thick stuff at all. A weldpak 100 is rated at 18 or 19 volts, depending on which scale you look at, and 88 amps, cool small / portable welder but welding thick stuff it will not do. I didn't mean to convey the wire was the limiting factor, not at all...I've welded 1/4" steel with 0.030" wire on a MillerMatic 185, very nice welder...

I think you'all are forgetting he wanted something that would plug into a normal household outlet...which means 110v in most cases...you could do the whole extention cord from a dryer outlet into the garage routine, but if you have already bought a 220v welder you've already made the commitment to 220 so at that point you'd already be ready to put in 220...if just wanting to learn welding and have something to play with (and take over to a buddy's house to show him something or have him practice) I can not think of a better setup than a 110v welder...ofcourse this is for learning...not for production, full-on shop use...

:cheers:
 
Millermatic 210.

i second this. Best tool i have bought in a long time.
remember, welding is an art, take time to get good, clean lines.
take some time, and practice on scrap. who knows you might turn out some cool "yard art" at the same time
 
Millermatic 210 is an awesome machine. I just picked up some 023 wire and drive wheels to start on thin sheet but I havent tried it out. The 030 may be fine for the thicker cruiser metal but I will have more control with the thinner stuff. It does an awesome job on thicker metal although I haven't gone thicker than 3/8. This is what I learned on. I wanted to only buy a mig once. Parts are easy to get too.
 
Sorry, I was not trying to imply that a small machine would be no good. I often wish I had a smaller machine. I have a Miller Trailblazer 280 If I want to take it to a friends house I have to put it on my trailer. If I want to weld in the winter I have to open the garage door, as it is gas powered. I also can not go below about 14V. I can however (and have once used it) weld at 300A continuous duty. Good for Arc-Air when you need to cut the end off a bridge I beam. (I was working on the bridge, not destroying it)

There are a lot of things that small welders can do - especially with multiple passes. There are also a lot of things that a small stick welder can do. I watched an older gentleman do a very nice rebuild job on his sailboat this past summer. He was docked where I work and over the period of a few weeks he entirely re-build the cabin roof on his steel boat. He did the whole thing with an aincient Lincoln 110V welder and 3/32 rod.

The only thing that scares me with a small welder is the fact that he did mention welding truck frames. Truck frames tend to need to be very strong - remeber that it is your ass riding down the road in it, and someone elses ass that is going to sue you when your weld fails and kills someone.

Just a thought to keep in mind...
 
Sorry, I was not trying to imply that a small machine would be no good. I often wish I had a smaller machine. I have a Miller Trailblazer 280 If I want to take it to a friends house I have to put it on my trailer. If I want to weld in the winter I have to open the garage door, as it is gas powered. I also can not go below about 14V. I can however (and have once used it) weld at 300A continuous duty. Good for Arc-Air when you need to cut the end off a bridge I beam. (I was working on the bridge, not destroying it)

There are a lot of things that small welders can do - especially with multiple passes. There are also a lot of things that a small stick welder can do. I watched an older gentleman do a very nice rebuild job on his sailboat this past summer. He was docked where I work and over the period of a few weeks he entirely re-build the cabin roof on his steel boat. He did the whole thing with an aincient Lincoln 110V welder and 3/32 rod.

The only thing that scares me with a small welder is the fact that he did mention welding truck frames. Truck frames tend to need to be very strong - remeber that it is your ass riding down the road in it, and someone elses ass that is going to sue you when your weld fails and kills someone.

Just a thought to keep in mind...


EXCELLENT point! That is exactly why I am gladly paying the 4wd shop $900.00 to fix the frame on my Pathfinder. I don't want to fxxx it up and kill myself or anyone else!


Zack
 
this is the advice i have been given on more then one occasion and i plan to follow it, buy the best welder you can afford, or in your case maybe talk to whoever would be giving you the welder and maybe just ask them to put some money up towards a good one....if you buy a good welder you wont be sorry, go with whatever you can afford....personally i wouldnt feel comfortable welding a truck frame with a little 110 volt, just me though...i prefer stuff to be overbuilt than underbuilt. oh yea....and sombody said you can weld OVER rust....well its not a good idea, ill leave it at that. if the metal your welding is not cleaned down to bare metal you will have problems striking the arc and it wont be as strong plus you will get splatter. as for the brand, i think millers are the way to go
 
Better yet start at the beginning. You said that you have never welded. Take a class at your local trade school or a weekend seminar at your area arts guild. I was fortunate enough that I went to art college and was able to use the sculpture lab. If you take a class, you get to try out gas, stick, migs and even tigs. Get a feel for what you like. I have a Lincoln100/135 fluxcore (perfect for sheet metal) with the option to upgrade to mig. Rating on side states that I can go up to 1/4 stock (easily can do a frame rail if you know what you are doing).
 
The big thing I would recommend is staying away from the no name brands. I own a portion of a Miller 135 and I love it. It is so much better than the other 110 welders I've used. I also use a Miller 250 for heavier stuff if needed. I've had no problem with the 135 building bumpers. I've welded 1/4" and 3/16" tubing with no issues. And I'm not having to do double passes on the 1/4" I feel like I'm getting really good penetration even with the 110. It is handy having a small welder. My partner on this welder has a 250 and wanted to get something smaller for sheet metal. Get the bottles right away. Much better welds and easier to weld with than the flux core. I would also consider the Lincoln in the 110 world. I've used a few of those too. Other than those two brands for a 110 there is nothing worth the headache in my opinion. A good welder can help a new welder make acceptable welds. A cheap quality welder just makes you frustrated.
 
no zack lucky for you there are many options out there,ive used the napa brands there ok along with some of harbor freight stuff.but word of advice if you buy a cheap non gas wire fed welder fine.but get yourself another spool of really good wire to go along with it .trust me cheap wire really sucks:frown:
 
If you have to get a 110 then get one. You can do frame repairs, bumper builds and a hell of a lot more if you are patient..

Most of my Buggy 40 was built with a 110V welder. Works great. just don't use gas on it. It cools the weld too much. Stick with flux core.

Or, get a AC/DC stick machine and a spool gun. then you have the ability to run Al as well..

How much do you have to spend?

That will be the biggest factor..

BTW, I would trust a tig weld on a frame just as easily as I would trust a stick or other electric arc weld... There is nothing fundamantally that makes Tig less desireable.
 

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