I just drove the GX 550 and left disappointed.

[wiseinvestor]

O.K. Losing $20K in a depreciating asset in 2.5 years sounds about right on a new vehicle.

30% depreciation off msrp over 2.5 years may be normal, but reloading on a new model at a 30% higher msrp seems unusual. I would have to Love the newer model to justify. My take away from the OP was that, for him, the new model fell short under those circumstances.

 

[Adam R]

Google tells me our 1999 LC was $48,718 when new. We bought ours when it was 4 years old with 40,000 miles for $29,000.

That works out to 41% depreciation or about 10% per year. It's my only data point, but in the ball park of the OP. You also have to ask yourself what you get for that additional 30% of MSRP. While I'm not very familiar with the 460, I'd hazard to guess that the 550 has a few perks that the 460 didn't come with like larger size, significantly more power, far better towing capability, rear locker, etc.

MSRP on my F-350 was $81K in 2019. I'd be well into the $100K range to replace that truck today and by and large, that truck today is nearly identical to my 2019 aside from some cosmetic differences and a slight bump in hp/torque. Near double digit inflation for the past few years is also partly responsible for that 30% higher MSRP.

Personally, I keep and maintain my rolling stock for much longer period of time than the average consumer. It works for me, but I also don't mind buying a higher quality vehicle with the intention of hanging onto it. I haven't had a vehicle payment in nearly 20 years and I plan to avoid payments going forward.

 

[uzj100]

The most convenient aspect of the split tailgate is having a little seat or workbench or table to use when camping. Its pretty crucial.

Also it’s an excellent standing platform for rearranging gear on the rear of a roof rack.
Except for standing and sitting, it’s mostly used as a little table connected securely to the rear of the vehicle. I don’t see why an aftermarket manufacturer couldn’t fabricate a little shelf thing that’s stored up folded inside but can be deployed outward to act as a nice little table too. Made of aluminum.

If somebody (a company) made a sweet design for a mini rear table for these new vehicles, I know they’d sell a ton of them.

I designed one. Actually pretty simple. Slee has the same idea. I do not have resources to produce it. The market would be huge because it could offered for every liftgate suv/wagon in the world.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Huh?

With a one piece tailgate, there is one motor, one set of hinges, one latch, one set of stops, and sensors for just that one tailgate.

With a spilt tailgate there are two motors, two sets of hinges, three latches, two sets of stops, sensors for the top and bottom, and a logic board to sequence the closing so the bottom piece closes first.

And you are telling me that the more complex system is no more expensive to design than the simpler system? I find that rather hard to believe.

My mistake, I thought you originally were talking about going from manual/non-motorized to motorized.

 

[tincan45]

30% depreciation off msrp over 2.5 years may be normal, but reloading on a new model at a 30% higher msrp seems unusual. I would have to Love the newer model to justify. My take away from the OP was that, for him, the new model fell short under those circumstances.

This....which was the reason for posting originally. Perhaps I'm an not the norm, but I don't see many "responsible" car buyers (as most Lexus Toyota owners tend to be) taking this plunge. We can debate the pro's and con's of swapping out a car every three years in another conversation, but that has worked for our family in the past but current markets no longer seem to favor it. Combine this with mismatched feature parity and perhaps lower build quality I just wasn't overwhelmed. It will be interesting to revisit this thread in a year or two and see how perceptions change.

 

[M1911]

That wasn’t my experience. I didn’t have any problem with the side mirrors and the interior space seemed similar to my 200. Both times I test drove the GX I backed up while parking it and used the side mirrors — they are generously sized, so I don’t understand what problem you were having with them.

@tincan45 I was looking at a GX again today and now I see your point. The mirrors are tall and narrow — far narrower than the mirrors on my 200. I do prefer my 200’s mirrors. I wouldn’t call the GX mirrors useless, but I would prefer a wider mirror.

 

[Kabanstva]

I got the call last week that a demo GX 550 arrived at my local dealer and it was available for a test drive. After months of anticipation I was excited to get behind the wheel on Friday. I have an incognito overtrail due to arrive any day. This GX would replace my wife's current GX (2022 premium) and I thought it would be a great upgrade. Turns out, we both still favor the 460 over the new 550 for several reasons...

I'll admit the primary reason was price. When we got on the allocation list almost a year ago we had no idea what features would be on individual packages. In order to get the features my wife wanted we were looking at an 80K+ build at substantially higher interest rates. We purchased her 2022 in November of 2021 and had no choice but to pay MSRP 63K (Covid shortages) but got it @ 2% interest. We put 20K down and had a reasonable payment all things considered. Fast forward to today's market and our 2022 has lost 20K in equity in 2 years (something that's never happened in 25 years of buying Lexus/Toyota) plus we are looking at much higher rates of 5-7%. The cost of the vehicle with similar features is now 20K more. I put pencil to paper and quickly realized there was no way I could make a reasonable deal work out. Granted, everyone's financial situation is different, but it just seemed like a stupid purchase for me.

Now for all the negative subjective items:

1- Side mirrors were terrible. The FJ style mirrors are almost useless.
2 - Interior seemed much smaller. The center console is wider, but I felt much more confined in the 550 compared to the 460.
3 - Fit and Finish Felt like a 4runner not a Lexus with lots of mat black plastic and vegan leather. This doesn't feel luxury at all. While I didn't mind it, my wife sure noticed it.
4 - This is nit picking, but the hood sheet metal is so thin it flops around as you drive. I found it distracting and didn't feel like solid Lexus/Toyota feel I've come to expect.
5 - Tech is cumbersome. Dumb things like change seat heat/vent were not obvious without some fiddling and the QI charger was in an awkward spot. Overall, tech was prob a net positive (see below)

Positives items:

1- The TTV6 has great power. The turbos really seem to bring it alive.
2 - The tailgate is SO much better, although we all wish it was a split-gate.
3 - The tech is much better: Usb-c and much needed update to the brand.
4 - Rear Lockers!
5 - It looks great

I'm curious if I'm the only one walking away from the new 250 model. I know I was the second person that day to walk away from an allocation order so if anyone is looking, you might want to call Lexus of Tulsa and see if you can jump on either the Black LUX+ or the Incog Overtrail that are now available. I suspect they will go the next person on a long list.

My brother owns a GX470 and a GX460. He just test drove a new GX550 Overtrail and said the same thing, interior feels smaller on the new one.

 

[joseywales]

I don’t camp.

And I don’t know why I can’t get your quote off my reply to Adams post?

I spend more time over on the Ford Powerstroke forums, but threads such as these are pretty common over there. Plenty of people seem to look at financing as a way of life.

I’m considering a Sasquatch Bronco for my next leased rig. My lease is a tax write off, and I’d be a fool to not have the payment. If I didn’t write off the company vehicle, literally 100% of that payment would go away as income tax.

I showed my wife a pic of the GX 550 and said this is the next vehicle we are getting for her and she said she likes her 25 year old 330,000 mile 100 series. It drives nearly a good as most newer vehicles out there.

My wife and I split who is “primary driver” on the new leased one. My current lease is a 2019 Tundra Crewmax on 35s. We both fight over the 400k old 2003 Sequoia. It drives so much nicer with the 4.7 and A340. It’s only an SR5, and it’s WAY more comfortable than the 16 year and 320,000 newer Tundra Platinum!

 

[efjayatee]

That wasn’t my experience. I didn’t have any problem with the side mirrors and the interior space seemed similar to my 200. Both times I test drove the GX I backed up while parking it and used the side mirrors — they are generously sized, so I don’t understand what problem you were having with them.

The interior of my 200 might be slightly wider, but I still had plenty of space in the GX550.

While I personally prefer a lifting tailgate to the side-hinged door of the GX 460, I think that is a personal decision. I’ve had regular lifting tailgates, like on my 03 4Runner. I’ve had the split tailgate in my 200. I think it is an exaggeration to say “we all wish it was a split-gate". Personally, I’m indifferent. A lifting tailgate with opening rear glass is just fine for me, and it is cheaper and easier to motorize when you have just a single moving tailgate and don’t have to sequence two different moving pieces. The lifting tailgate also lets you get about a foot closer into the cargo area, as you don’t have to lean over the lower half of the open split-gate.

I will admit there is a coolness factor to the split-gate, but there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

@tincan45.... We ALL wish it had a split tail gate design on all LC/LX/GX!

 

[aggiepaintrain]

I drove an OT for 12 miles of mixed driving , did not care for the way it downshifted when coasting, felt like the engine was still pulling me forward.
Ride is rough af.
Does not compare to a 200, imho
11 mpg…really ?

 

[stridertexas]

I got the call last week that a demo GX 550 arrived at my local dealer and it was available for a test drive. After months of anticipation I was excited to get behind the wheel on Friday. I have an incognito overtrail due to arrive any day. This GX would replace my wife's current GX (2022 premium) and I thought it would be a great upgrade. Turns out, we both still favor the 460 over the new 550 for several reasons...

I'll admit the primary reason was price. When we got on the allocation list almost a year ago we had no idea what features would be on individual packages. In order to get the features my wife wanted we were looking at an 80K+ build at substantially higher interest rates. We purchased her 2022 in November of 2021 and had no choice but to pay MSRP 63K (Covid shortages) but got it @ 2% interest. We put 20K down and had a reasonable payment all things considered. Fast forward to today's market and our 2022 has lost 20K in equity in 2 years (something that's never happened in 25 years of buying Lexus/Toyota) plus we are looking at much higher rates of 5-7%. The cost of the vehicle with similar features is now 20K more. I put pencil to paper and quickly realized there was no way I could make a reasonable deal work out. Granted, everyone's financial situation is different, but it just seemed like a stupid purchase for me.

Now for all the negative subjective items:

1- Side mirrors were terrible. The FJ style mirrors are almost useless.
2 - Interior seemed much smaller. The center console is wider, but I felt much more confined in the 550 compared to the 460.
3 - Fit and Finish Felt like a 4runner not a Lexus with lots of mat black plastic and vegan leather. This doesn't feel luxury at all. While I didn't mind it, my wife sure noticed it.
4 - This is nit picking, but the hood sheet metal is so thin it flops around as you drive. I found it distracting and didn't feel like solid Lexus/Toyota feel I've come to expect.
5 - Tech is cumbersome. Dumb things like change seat heat/vent were not obvious without some fiddling and the QI charger was in an awkward spot. Overall, tech was prob a net positive (see below)

Positives items:

1- The TTV6 has great power. The turbos really seem to bring it alive.
2 - The tailgate is SO much better, although we all wish it was a split-gate.
3 - The tech is much better: Usb-c and much needed update to the brand.
4 - Rear Lockers!
5 - It looks great

I'm curious if I'm the only one walking away from the new 250 model. I know I was the second person that day to walk away from an allocation order so if anyone is looking, you might want to call Lexus of Tulsa and see if you can jump on either the Black LUX+ or the Incog Overtrail that are now available. I suspect they will go the next person on a long list.

After being on the list for a year, I saw one in person and just left completely underwhelmed, primarily by the interior. It just seemed cheap. The external design is amazing.

Also like you, I put pencil to paper on if getting rid of my 2020 Defender would be worth it. That car was my first $80k vehicle and it’s been amazing. Since it’s about to go out of warranty, I figured how much could this cost me really to drive it to 100k…the answer was it’d cost me about $35k to jump into an OT+ and that’s not including my low interest rate vs the potential LR repairs... My Defender will be paid off in less than year.

So yeah, I walked away from a Toyota, to keep a Land Rover, b/c the overall cost to replace and potentially repair the LR seemed worth keeping it.

 

[Specialeyes]

11 mpg…really ?

People are getting the advertised 17-18. No way no how you’re going to get an accurate mpg calculation on a 12 mile test drive.

 

[Specialeyes]

After being on the list for a year, I saw one in person and just left completely underwhelmed, primarily by the interior. It just seemed cheap. The external design is amazing.

Also like you, I put pencil to paper on if getting rid of my 2020 Defender would be worth it. That car was my first $80k vehicle and it’s been amazing. Since it’s about to go out of warranty, I figured how much could this cost me really to drive it to 100k…the answer was it’d cost me about $35k to jump into an OT+ and that’s not including my low interest rate vs the potential LR repairs... My Defender will be paid off in less than year.

So yeah, I walked away from a Toyota, to keep a Land Rover, b/c the overall cost to replace and potentially repair the LR seemed worth keeping it.

I’m slightly more lukewarm on the 550 in light of the recent concerns with the engine as well as my 15 minutes or so of poking and prodding around a 250. The 250 FE interior was pretty much on par with the 550 Premium I checked out just a couple days prior. Way too early knee jerk reaction here but it’s starting to look like a well equipped “Land Cruiser” trim 250 may be the best bang for buck between the two.

In any case I can live with the interior, it’s certainly not bad by any stretch. It’s just missing something. I cannot live with the probability of the engine having a main bearing failure and costing tens of thousands of dollars to repair.

 

[malden]

So yeah, I walked away from a Toyota, to keep a Land Rover, b/c the overall cost to replace and potentially repair the LR seemed worth keeping it.

If it's any solace, around in Scottsdale AZ I am seeing Defenders as if they are growing on trees. They are everywhere in the upscale communities and down in downtown PHX too. 4Runners are ubiquitous as well and there are droves of GX460s, but the Defender is almost becoming a must have, a cult car. Must be a reason. I somehow do not see the 250 or 550 making a dent in the Defender momentum, might be a question of too little too late for Toyota in the mid-sized SUV space, but we shall see. I'll be giving the Defender another look when I am ready to buy in Europe. I only have one Toyota choice, the 250, that's it. Hard to understand really when you consider the Dream Team of SUVs they could offer and sell if they wanted to.

 

[stridertexas]

If it's any solace, around in Scottsdale AZ I am seeing Defenders as if they are growing on trees. They are everywhere in the upscale communities and down in downtown PHX too. 4Runners are ubiquitous as well and there are droves of GX460s, but the Defender is almost becoming a must have, a cult car. Must be a reason. I somehow do not see the 250 or 550 making a dent in the Defender momentum, might be a question of too little too late for Toyota in the mid-sized SUV space, but we shall see. I'll be giving the Defender another look when I am ready to buy in Europe. I only have one Toyota choice, the 250, that's it. Hard to understand really when you consider the Dream Team of SUVs they could offer and sell if they wanted to.

It’s been a great vehicle with a few obvious quirks in the first years. But everything is sorted out now and they’re really reliable.

Even if I have to spend $10k in repairs over the next say 5 years, it’ll be cheaper then moving to a new vehicle.

If you look at the Defender, consider a 2024 V8, last year of the simpler version.

 

[Phillyd2]

The only real place a Defender competes with say a GX OT+ is the image that the driver wants to project. That said, it's more fine enough for how the majority of the members here use these trucks.

I've enjoyed my time behind the wheel in them but I also enjoyed returning the keys.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

People are getting the advertised 17-18. No way no how you’re going to get an accurate mpg calculation on a 12 mile test drive.

This

For reference we did 400 miles Friday-Sunday towing a ~2800lb camp with our 550. Averaged 13-14mpg. I’ll have to take note of the non towing mileage.

 

[tincan45]

This

For reference we did 400 miles Friday-Sunday towing a ~2800lb camp with our 550. Averaged 13-14mpg. I’ll have to take note of the non towing mileage.

Did you notice the smaller fuel tank towing? Better MPG, same range as the 200?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Did you notice the smaller fuel tank towing? Better MPG, same range as the 200?

Not on this last trip. We left with half tank, fueled along the way and got home with fuel left so it didn't really make a difference. One may see the 3 gallon deficit versus a 200 on a much longer road trip.

 

[ryanjl]

It’s been a great vehicle with a few obvious quirks in the first years. But everything is sorted out now and they’re really reliable.

Even if I have to spend $10k in repairs over the next say 5 years, it’ll be cheaper then moving to a new vehicle.

If you look at the Defender, consider a 2024 V8, last year of the simpler version.

My LR4 has been the best vehicle I've ever owned, and that includes the FZJ80 that I had when it was only a few years old and daily drove for nearly a decade. I've had my LR4 now for almost 9 years and am just ready for something different. Thought about a Defender, but giving the 250 a shot instead.

That said, I'd stay away from the Ford/Rover 5.0 V8. It's what's in my LR4 and essentially the same engine that's in the Defender. It's been a great engine power-wise, but it still has the same plastic timing-chain guide issues that so many newer V8 engines have. Even further (and as I think you alluded to), Land Rover is switching the Defender V8 to the turbo BMW V8 that's currently in the newest Range Rover, and I'd stay real far away from that engine.

People I know who offroad the v8 Defender have said the engine is almost too powerful off road and hard to modulate. People think the P400 is really the best engine in the Defender.