joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
“Username Phillyd2, ignore button, click”
how is soul quantified?
- Thread starter ryanCA
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joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
In case you couldn’t tell Philly, I wasn’t mocking you. I was totally agreeing. I’m not on social media at all (I guess this is a form of it, but it’s Land Cruiser based so doesn’t count), and I don’t pay any attention to “influencers”. Marketing has been a thing since the dawn of time. It’s up to us whether or not we buy into it.
Assuming that battery placement can be figured out in a relatively sane way, I'd rather see a powertrain similar to or adapted from the Lexus TX550h+. Toyota's tried and true N/A V6 2GR and a plug in hybrid with an 18 kw lithium ion battery and front and rear electric motors. 33 miles of all electric range. 29 mpg combined. Good performance.
The TX550h+ weighs 5400 lbs.
The 250 (as-is) weighs 5000 lbs.
I don’t think soul is the right word to use. Human beings have souls. Living, breathing animals have souls. Heaps of metal, rubber, and fluids do not have souls.
Driving old school, analog cars of yesteryear used to vary from one model to the next. It was what separated a sedan from a coupe, a mid size pick up from a full size, a van from a SUV, so on and so forth. Nowadays the problem I think is that many cars and trucks feel the same. Maybe this is just a testament to how far vehicle tech has come?
I think a better way to describe this “soul” we refer to is that it’s the sight, the tactile feelings, and the sounds of these rigs which stir our senses and press the dopamine buttons in our brains.
Driving old school, analog cars of yesteryear used to vary from one model to the next. It was what separated a sedan from a coupe, a mid size pick up from a full size, a van from a SUV, so on and so forth. Nowadays the problem I think is that many cars and trucks feel the same. Maybe this is just a testament to how far vehicle tech has come?
I think a better way to describe this “soul” we refer to is that it’s the sight, the tactile feelings, and the sounds of these rigs which stir our senses and press the dopamine buttons in our brains.
I-4 packaging is a bit easier providing more underhood room. After having our non-plugin hybrid, I find it the best of both worlds and nearly absent of compromise since it gets the 35 mpg combined and creep up towards 40 mpg under the right conditions. No turbocharger, no plug-in required, just a CVT and a old-school NiMH battery under the 2nd row. Still enough room for a big gas tank too, hence the range that creeps up to 600 miles sometimes.
I personally don't really see a benefit to having all-electric range capability - given the corresponding increase in battery size/weight - for saving a few dollars a month in fuel and a few pounds a year of CO2 emissions. It's more complexity for nominal rear benefit.
A better "green" option would be to just walk or ride your bike for those short trips (when I lived in the city, I bike commuted for several years and loved it).
Another thing that is really annoying about the 250 is when you open the hood, you are staring at a rats nest of wires and hoses. When we saw the first pictures of the engine bay, I thought for sure they'd cover the engine like they do for the 100/200 and all of the Lexus models. It looks like crap and certainly not what you'd expect to see for a $60-70K vehicle. I'm sure it won't look any better after you put some miles on it down a dusty dirt road and certainly not after you've had it for 200K+ miles. Another example of poor execution on Mr. T's part.
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Seems to be a common theme with their post-COVID vehicles. Sloppy execution and unforced errors from an automaker that routinely out-executed everyone else. Perhaps they are getting lazy/complacent from the top of their perch.
Rats nest of wires and hoses in modern powertrains is one thing but I find the flimsy plastic engine bay covers fastened with those plastic push button clips that love to break more of an annoyance than anything. I removed most of them from my wife's Lexus because it just makes routine maintenance and inspection more difficult.
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
Plug-in electric vehicles are a complete farce. There is literally nowhere other than deserts where you can charge one without use of “the grid”, and there is almost nowhere on the planet that could handle the apparent impending switch to all electric. It’s just not feasible.
Where did that come from? I think EV’s have their place and are viable alternative. Especially for the majority of people who commute maybe 100 miles per day or so and can charge at home. On long distance road trips I could see someone preferring gasoline but you can also map out a fair amount of trips with stops at charging stations. Who the hell ever said anything about EV’s not using electricity to charge them?
Something, something, soul so we stay on topic.
How do you quantify soul? I do so by how many times the vehicle makes me want to look back over my shoulder at it is as I walk away from it, where it is able to take me, how it gets me there, and how many others wish they had it.
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
I’ll take the Paul Smart if you’re done with it!
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
Where did it come from? Posts 63-65.
Where do you live? Not anywhere that has any power issues already apparently. California is leading the “charge” towards electric cars, and they have a hard enough time keeping power flowing as is, without trying to get everyone in an electric vehicle.
I’m in BC and we just finally got a mega hydro project online that took over 44 years of politics and environmental fighting to finish. Look up “Site C dam” if you want the whole story on it. Our govt wants 100% electric vehicles by 2035. That’s 10 years from now. The math is that we would need 4 MORE Site C sized hydro dams in order to charge all these new electric vehicles. If it took 44 years to get this one done, good luck getting 4 more done in 10 years.
People look at the window dressing, and want to feel all cuddly about green power. The reality is, we are in WAY over our heads with this EV bull****. Lithium mining is one of the most destructive processes on the planet.
And to put the I’d back on topic, NO EV has Soul. Period.
Most folks fundamentally don't understand the massive infrastructure buildout and corresponding planetary disruption required for EVs. It's all part of the broader fallacy of thinking that electricity magically appears from the outlet, food comes from the grocery store, new cars come from the dealer, etc. A side effect of detached, modern life spent in cities and suburbs.
We aren't going to get an EV revolution any time soon simply because it requires too many infrastructure projects that affect too many people, and there are too many NIMBYs out there who can stonewall too many of those projects (regardless of if they are a "good" or a "bad" project). Folks here are stonewalling things like new transmission lines (to move wind power from KS to IL) and lithium-ion battery recycling plants (though, one did just catastrophically explode in my state and spewed a toxic smoke cloud).
On top of that, EVs/decarbonization have become a political football, they'll go through endless back-and-forth policy cycles depending on who is in power, which creates further uncertainty and diminishes the pool of investors willing to fund these projects. And let's face it, our political climate is going to get a lot worse before it gets better (no pun intended).
Or we could all just buy hybrids which provide most of the environmental benefits of an EV without the need for pie-in-the-sky infrastructure projects
. That's what we did, and that's one area where I agree with Mr. T.
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Catching Neutral
GOLD Star
Perhaps the feeling of “soul” in an automobile fades as we mature. I “remember” the 40, 62, and 80 that I drove daily as having much more “soul” than the 310,000-mile GX I’m currently driving.
I’ve driven the GX for twice the years, over three times the miles, and on ten times the adventures of any of those Land Cruisers, but it still doesn’t feel like it has a soul. That said, there is no other vehicle I’m currently willing to spend money on and I have no desire to take an older Land Cruiser with “soul” on a cross-country trip.
Then again ...
I’ve driven the GX for twice the years, over three times the miles, and on ten times the adventures of any of those Land Cruisers, but it still doesn’t feel like it has a soul. That said, there is no other vehicle I’m currently willing to spend money on and I have no desire to take an older Land Cruiser with “soul” on a cross-country trip.
Then again ...
You just need to modify it, then it will have plenty of soul
. While I love the Lexus luxury appointments, they also have the effect of desensitizing the driver from the surrounding environment by making it too quiet, too comfortable, and too smooth-shifting. I've addressed all of that on my GX, outside the comfort and interior quality (as well as low-noise at cruising speeds), all of which I enjoy vastly more than an older vehicle.
joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
100% I agree that all those luxury elements do take away a bit (lot?) of soul. My 1958 will get big-ish aggressive Toyos and a moderate lift on it fairly quickly. That oughta help 
The only way to answer this will be in time. When we look back at the 250 & compare it to the 270, 350, 370 or whatever the newer generations will be marked as.
But my guess then is people will say the 250 is so much better than the new _______ are and the 250 “did what it had to do during a time of change in vehicles and did it well”. And it looks awesome to boot.
My dad owned a small used car lot for 40 years. I remember growing up on it as a kid and him complaining about early to late 80s vehicles having electronic fuel injection and how it was ruining vehicles. The beginning of the mass adoption of something is always upsetting to people at first.
But my guess then is people will say the 250 is so much better than the new _______ are and the 250 “did what it had to do during a time of change in vehicles and did it well”. And it looks awesome to boot.
My dad owned a small used car lot for 40 years. I remember growing up on it as a kid and him complaining about early to late 80s vehicles having electronic fuel injection and how it was ruining vehicles. The beginning of the mass adoption of something is always upsetting to people at first.
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