How Do Y'all Deal With Being Over GVWR?

[WrongWayDave]

How Do Y'all Deal With Being Over GVWR?

I see the load capacity for 2021 LCs ranging from 1570-1670lbs (base vs Heritage), and if one adds winches, bumpers, underarmor, batteries, added LR fuel tanks, etc. I can see that eating up almost all of that stated capacity. I see folks using air suspensions and heavier rear springs as a result but did not know if there was a real concern or issues on the added wear/tear, etc. If I purchase, I am looking to add... well, everything and want to learn early some of the issues as I'd like this to be the only LC I ever have to buy, LOL...

Thank you,

-WWD

 

[linuxgod]

There's another thread on this if you search the forum. Stiffer springs are the main answer. In Australia there is a GVM upgrade which supports +500kg/1200lb over stock at the same ride height.

 

[bemerritt]

My plan is upgrading to the Tundra brakes at some point

 

[TeCKis300]

I do agree that stock suspension can be the immediate bottleneck, and with a suspension upgrade, can open additional payload capacity.

As another point of reference, axle weight limits may serve to be another guideline. GAWR Front: 3595 lbs, Rear 4300 lbs. Or 7,895 lbs total.

As a Land Cruiser, I'd probably interpret that these capacities have some degree of margin. It's not a hard limit, but there is a point of diminished performance and reliability when running close or beyond these thresholds.

In building the rig, it's all too easy to disregard limits and continue to throw weight/armor/gear to the detriment of the overall rig. Threads like this are good to keep capacities at the forefront of our minds as we build. Everyone uses their vehicle differently and will have to prioritize what's most important to them.

I personally am over the rear axle limit by a few hundred lbs when towing. Also over GCWR 14,645 lbs by a few hundred lbs. A lot of my upgrades have been focused on adding capacity to handle more load, while balancing that with increased capability. For example, rather than prepare for contact sports with armor, I'm prioritizing more clearance with 35s and bigger suspension lift. Some of my key upgrades to handle additional load, a lot of which don't even look expo, but IMO are more useful than outwardly cool mods. 1) Augmenting the AHC suspension 2) Tundra big brakes 3) Re-gear 4) LT Tires 5) Bigger fuel tank 6) Increase tire pressure

 

[linuxgod]

My plan is upgrading to the Tundra brakes at some point

I don't think Tundra brakes would have a significant impact on GWVR capabilities. As it stands the manual says you can pull a 1000# trailer without trailer brakes, so you can read that to mean the existing LC brakes are designed to stop GVWR + 1000#. Maybe a 6-pot Brembo BBK would help, but the Tundra rotors and calipers or the 2016+ rotors are going to be a marginal improvement in real life stopping distance, methinks.

 

[Whiskerz]

The other GVW issue is the weight rating of the tires and rims. Most of us are running E range tires so that is not an issue but those saving weight with standard load or even C range tires can run up against the maximum weight carrying ability of the tires

 

[linuxgod]

The other GVW issue is the weight rating of the tires and rims. Most of us are running E range tires so that is not an issue but those saving weight with standard load or even C range tires can run up against the maximum weight carrying ability of the tires

Depending on the tire size, technically you'll probably exceed the weight rating of the wheels before the tires, particularly E load. I think E load tires go up to ~3500# each but most wheels (even forged TRD) aren't rated that high

 

[bemerritt]

I don't think Tundra brakes would have a significant impact on GWVR capabilities. As it stands the manual says you can pull a 1000# trailer without trailer brakes, so you can read that to mean the existing LC brakes are designed to stop GVWR + 1000#. Maybe a 6-pot Brembo BBK would help, but the Tundra rotors and calipers or the 2016+ rotors are going to be a marginal improvement in real life stopping distance, methinks.

I've just noticed in simple terms the ability to stop is getting slower and slower as weight is added. Any marginal benefit I'll take when i need new pads.

 

[linuxgod]

I've just noticed in simple terms the ability to stop is getting slower and slower as weight is added. Any marginal benefit I'll take when i need new pads.

Physics says your right.

That said new pads, rotors, and fluid will improve stopping distance a lot, enough so I'd like to see someone do a real life comparison of new LC pads/discs vs pads/discs from a Tundra brake swap. I'm on standard size StopTech rotors for my 2013 with HD/metallic fleet pads and after properly bedding in the brakes I personally found them to be much improved over stock. I doubt the pad or disc materials made the difference, moreso just the fact they were new.

Edit: as a side note I considered the Tundra brake route as well as just swapping in the 2016+ LC brake setup, but both seemed like a fairly expensive cost for what ultimately might save a few feet of stopping distance

 

[Rigger]

My girl is also overweight, but I haven't been concerned about the GVWR. I just drive it.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

It's worth noting that suspension, tire, brake, and other vehicle upgrades may increase your vehicle's practical, physical capacity for carrying weight, but they will not do anything to increase your GVWR in the legal sense here in North America. To legally increase your GVWR, you need to get your vehicle re-certified, which is both expensive and impractical.

In a serious, horrible, edge-case accident (ie. loss of life, limbs, etc.) it's entirely possible for lawyers to start questioning the weight of the vehicles involved, and denying liability/spreading blame. Probably not a realistic scenario for most people, but if you're armoured up like a tank and heavy on the skinny pedal, it may be worth thinking about.

 

[catastrofe]

Here are some Google search results for Aussie GVM updates. I would imagine it would be fairly straightforward to duplicate one of these solutions in the US.

Google Search

 

[gaijin]

Here are some Google search results for Aussie GVM updates. I would imagine it would be fairly straightforward to duplicate one of these solutions in the US.

Google Search

Those videos point out that for the Australian GVM upgrade to be legal, it must be performed on a new vehicle, before registration, by an authorized shop, and must have a new "compliance plate" (i.e. the driver side door placard) fitted.

Here in the U.S., this means that no matter how many, or what manner, of goodies we fit to our vehicles, the GVWR remains the same legally.

@eatSleepWoof 's point is a good one.

 

[Forerunner]

Physics says your right.

That said new pads, rotors, and fluid will improve stopping distance a lot, enough so I'd like to see someone do a real life comparison of new LC pads/discs vs pads/discs from a Tundra brake swap. I'm on standard size StopTech rotors for my 2013 with HD/metallic fleet pads and after properly bedding in the brakes I personally found them to be much improved over stock. I doubt the pad or disc materials made the difference, moreso just the fact they were new.

Edit: as a side note I considered the Tundra brake route as well as just swapping in the 2016+ LC brake setup, but both seemed like a fairly expensive cost for what ultimately might save a few feet of stopping distance

I'm waiting on @cruiseroutfit to get the Jx201 brake upgrade they did. I believe they used StopTech rotors.

 

[catastrofe]

Those videos point out that for the Australian GVM upgrade to be legal, it must be performed on a new vehicle, before registration, by an authorized shop, and must have a new "compliance plate" (i.e. the driver side door placard) fitted.

Here in the U.S., this means that no matter how many, or what manner, of goodies we fit to our vehicles, the GVWR remains the same legally.

@eatSleepWoof 's point is a good one.

Actually, in Australia they can hire an engineer to certify the GVM upgrade after installation. That's covered in this video:



From a legal perspective in the US, you're absolutely right. That notwithstanding, you can gain peace of mind by following on of the Aussie setups.

 

[linuxgod]

Here are some Google search results for Aussie GVM updates. I would imagine it would be fairly straightforward to duplicate one of these solutions in the US.

Google Search

It's pretty easy to duplicate the spring weights. I don't have free coil length, coil diameter, etc info though so you're only going to get an approximation.

GVWR, how much can a 200 safely carry?

We all use our 200s differently, from daily driving with families, to towing, weekend camping, to full long term expedition travel. Safely carrying extra weight seems to be an ongoing concern, as it should be. Lives are at stake. I for one use mine for long term remote travel and harder rock...

forum.ih8mud.com

If you get caught over GVWR, similar to getting caught speeding there are fines involved. That's ignoring any liability in an accident. In many states the police can make you go to a weigh station if they suspect you're overweight, though similarly in most states nobody will question your weight unless the vehicle looks problematic (e.g. you're towing a trailer and the rear is severely squatting) or is obviously driving poorly (e.g you are on the highway but can't maintain proper control of your vehicle). Whether or not you're OK with those risks is up to you.

If weight is a your primary concern go buy the Lovell's GVM upgrade and have it shipped to the USA. While your vehicle has not been re-certified for the higher weight, if you ended up in court you'd have a reasonable argument that the modifications you made were approved by Australia (which actually has stricter rules on this sort of thing than the USA) and as such they were not a contributing factor.

And if you're really paranoid, go buy an umbrella policy from your insurance company too that shields you from the financial liability. Or just watch your weight and stay under the limit.

 

[catastrofe]

It's pretty easy to duplicate the spring weights. I don't have free coil length, coil diameter, etc info though so you're only going to get an approximation.

GVWR, how much can a 200 safely carry?

We all use our 200s differently, from daily driving with families, to towing, weekend camping, to full long term expedition travel. Safely carrying extra weight seems to be an ongoing concern, as it should be. Lives are at stake. I for one use mine for long term remote travel and harder rock...

forum.ih8mud.com

If you get caught over GVWR, similar to getting caught speeding there are fines involved. That's ignoring any liability in an accident. In many states the police can make you go to a weigh station if they suspect you're overweight, though similarly in most states nobody will question your weight unless the vehicle looks problematic (e.g. you're towing a trailer and the rear is severely squatting) or is obviously driving poorly (e.g you are on the highway but can't maintain proper control of your vehicle). Whether or not you're OK with those risks is up to you.

If weight is a your primary concern go buy the Lovell's GVM upgrade and have it shipped to the USA. While your vehicle has not been re-certified for the higher weight, if you ended up in court you'd have a reasonable argument that the modifications you made were approved by Australia (which actually has stricter rules on this sort of thing than the USA) and as such they were not a contributing factor.

And if you're really paranoid, go buy an umbrella policy from your insurance company too that shields you from the financial liability. Or just watch your weight and stay under the limit.

Exactly!

 

[Whiskerz]

The armored 200 series in the middle east used to use PFC brakes both pads and rotors. I think they no longer offer the pads.