How bad is your gas mileage?

[JohnJB]

Currently electricity production produces more air pollution than transportation.

I believe since early 2016 that is no longer correct, at least with regard to CO2 emissions. I might be wrong due to the recent spike in natural gas use for electricity production but I couldn't quickly find the latest #s to compare. I do have 2017 #s though. And these numbers inventory more than just CO2: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons, sulfur hexafluoride, and nitrogen trifluoride.
Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | US EPA

Your points are all valid. There's nothing inherently green about electric cars, every type of modern mode of transportation has negatives. Undoubtedly the US needs to further accelerate our production of electricity to cleaner methods.

 

[Just a Ninja]

From my use and ownership of multiple sizes of SUVs and 2 generations of Land Cruisers, having a 16mpg 3200 lb car and 87 mpg-e EV in the garage, I'm no more satisfied or unsatisfied with the gas efficiency of the 200-series. It's just right for what it is. Which is a giant fat tired 6200lb, hugely capable land bruiser. I didn't buy it for MPG efficiency.

I'll note that it's more powerful AND more efficient compared to the '06 LX470 100-series I had.

Where this latest 200-series has gone wrong IMO is perceived mpg inefficiency. Due specifically to the need to get gas too often. Because of the too conservative fuel gauge and remaining range-o-meter.

The 200-series has the same 25.4 gallon tank as my 100-series. Even though the 100-series actually got worse MPG in my use, the 200-series "feels" worse. I keep gas logs. I use to fill my 100-series 20-22 gallons regularly. Whereas the conservative 200-series gauges causes me to fill regularly at 18-20 gallons. Even as I consciously compensate for the gauges conservative nature.

In a thirsty full size SUV, it causes me to live at the pump and feel like I get terrible gas mileage. This is a completely contrived perception issue that is not helping its case. That's 40-75 usable range on the table when I get gas and its irritating.

Fast forward to today, and with my 12.5 gallon LRA aux tank. I'm in nirvana with 500 mile range. 12.5 gallons doesn't feel like a lot, but it's a full 66% expansion in usable capacity. Many times, I feel like it's time to get gas as it's been awhile, yet I still have plenty of gas left. Road trips are no longer pock marked with gas stops, sometime 2-3 times a day. It's now once a day or every other day that I have to think about gas on a trip! My stops are where I'd like to visit or have lunch, rather than another gas stop and bio break at a dirty station.

This has gone a huge way to making me no longer feel like my vehicle is a gas monger.

Just don't get in line behind me at Costco as I fill 32+ gallons of fuel.

Ok I thought it was just me... Every time I fill up I feel like I'm not putting much gas in there and it's because of this conservative DTE calculation! I just haven't had the truck long enough to really figure it out. I was about to have the 40gal aux tank ordered because I was tired of filling up every three days but maybe I just need the 12.5 or 24 and to use my odometer to see how much gas I have left.

@TeCKis300 , any issues with your tank that I sound watch out for? I really like the idea of being able to go 500+ miles on one tank.

 

[40Man]

I believe since early 2016 that is no longer correct, at least with regard to CO2 emissions. I might be wrong due to the recent spike in natural gas use for electricity production but I couldn't quickly find the latest #s to compare. I do have 2017 #s though. And these numbers inventory more than just CO2: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons, sulfur hexafluoride, and nitrogen trifluoride.
Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | US EPA

Your points are all valid. There's nothing inherently green about electric cars, every type of modern mode of transportation has negatives. Undoubtedly the US needs to further accelerate our production of electricity to cleaner methods.

There are maps that show the CO2 effect of cars. Results vary by region. Electric is cleaner everywhere. Some areas are close to neutral compared to gas (especially if you compare to a hybrid or efficient gas vehicle) and some areas electric produces a fraction of the CO2 gas.

www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/03/14/charging-an-electric-vehicle-is-far-cleaner-than-driving-on-gasoline-everywhere-in-america/amp/

Once AOC grounds all air traffic and we take bullet trains everywhere the world will be much cleaner. Haha.

 

[Union]

More testing on my end needs to be done but initial numbers:

Highway: 15mpg
Road: 10-12mpg
Offroad 4LO: 8mpg

 

[JohnJB]

There are maps that show the CO2 effect of cars. Results vary by region. Electric is cleaner everywhere. Some areas are close to neutral compared to gas (especially if you compare to a hybrid or efficient gas vehicle) and some areas electric produces a fraction of the CO2 gas.

www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/03/14/charging-an-electric-vehicle-is-far-cleaner-than-driving-on-gasoline-everywhere-in-america/amp/

Once AOC grounds all air traffic and we take bullet trains everywhere the world will be much cleaner. Haha.

Right, when speaking about JUST cars that makes sense. Electricity is used for much more than just powering cars so I was looking at total electricity production emissions versus total transportation sector emissions, which seems more in alignment with the comment I was referencing.

 

[coleAK]

I believe since early 2016 that is no longer correct, at least with regard to CO2 emissions. I might be wrong due to the recent spike in natural gas use for electricity production but I couldn't quickly find the latest #s to compare. I do have 2017 #s though. And these numbers inventory more than just CO2: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons, sulfur hexafluoride, and nitrogen trifluoride.
Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | US EPA

Your points are all valid. There's nothing inherently green about electric cars, every type of modern mode of transportation has negatives. Undoubtedly the US needs to further accelerate our production of electricity to cleaner methods.

6-8 months a year depending on snow fall I’m charging our car entirely off our solar. The rest of the time it’s NG from the Grid.

 

[JohnJB]

6-8 months a year depending on snow fall I’m charging our car entirely off our solar. The rest of the time it’s NG from the Grid.

I think this is something that a lot of people fail to think about when they speak about electric cars. Something like 30% of electric car owners have some sort of solar charging setup, and it's only growing. So they aren't even using the grid. Last I checked, I can't build a refinery in my backyard.

And to clarify, when I said nothing inherently green, I was referring to the environmental cost associated with vehicle production. I don't think, or at least haven't seen data, that a Tesla sitting next to a Chevy Malibu on a car lot somehow starts with a much smaller carbon footprint (maybe more renewable energy is used in production but don't know?). Obviously, the EV is likely to be exponentially "more green" through its operational life cycle.

 

[coleAK]

I think this is something that a lot of people fail to think about when they speak about electric cars. Something like 30% of electric car owners have some sort of solar charging setup, and it's only growing. So they aren't even using the grid. Last I checked, I can't build a refinery in my backyard.

And to clarify, when I said nothing inherently green, I was referring to the environmental cost associated with vehicle production. I don't think, or at least haven't seen data, that a Tesla sitting next to a Chevy Malibu on a car lot somehow starts with a much smaller carbon footprint (maybe more renewable energy is used in production but don't know?). Obviously, the EV is likely to be exponentially "more green" through its operational life cycle.

I fully agree. Like I said before we didn’t do the Tesla thing as much to be “green” but we tend to keep cars a long time and thought of it more as the future of vehicles. And they are FAST, scary fast Solar was the same way, my wife is still active duty and we both have a role in disaster response (her now much more than I). So we needed an off grid solution for our home. I did the system mostly myself, hybrid on/off grid with a battery bank and generator backup to the solar. Now that we have it all it’s pretty nice not having a power bill ~3 months a year.

Another fun repeating topic on the Tesla forum are people trying to buy all vegan cars... I always bring up the fact that it is impossible to ride and all vegan bike Since the tires have animal fat in them. And it’s also impossible to have an all vegan cat since they are obligate carnivores

 

[Just a Ninja]

I think this is something that a lot of people fail to think about when they speak about electric cars. Something like 30% of electric car owners have some sort of solar charging setup, and it's only growing. So they aren't even using the grid. Last I checked, I can't build a refinery in my backyard.

And to clarify, when I said nothing inherently green, I was referring to the environmental cost associated with vehicle production. I don't think, or at least haven't seen data, that a Tesla sitting next to a Chevy Malibu on a car lot somehow starts with a much smaller carbon footprint (maybe more renewable energy is used in production but don't know?). Obviously, the EV is likely to be exponentially "more green" through its operational life cycle.

Funny how this turned into a thread about electric vehicles... On a forum dedicated to fat SUVs that get 11mpg no less. I love being responsible with resources but I feel no moral obligation to own an electric vehicle or even recycle all my plastic bottles (even tho I do anyway). And no one on this forum that chooses to own an LC has any right to act with indignation towards people who don't loooooove EVs. It's like someone eating a Big Mac telling you how you're a bad person for eating a Whopper

I fully agree. Like I said before we didn’t do the Tesla thing as much to be “green” but we tend to keep cars a long time and thought of it more as the future of vehicles. And they are FAST, scary fast Solar was the same way, my wife is still active duty and we both have a role in disaster response (her now much more than I). So we needed an off grid solution for our home. I did the system mostly myself, hybrid on/off grid with a battery bank and generator backup to the solar. Now that we have it all it’s pretty nice not having a power bill ~3 months a year.

Another fun repeating topic on the Tesla forum are people trying to buy all vegan cars... I always bring up the fact that it is impossible to ride and all vegan bike Since the tires have animal fat in them. And it’s also impossible to have an all vegan cat since they are obligate carnivores

Wait... There are people trying to find a VEGAN car?

 

[JohnJB]

I fully agree. Like I said before we didn’t do the Tesla thing as much to be “green” but we tend to keep cars a long time and thought of it more as the future of vehicles. And they are FAST, scary fast Solar was the same way, my wife is still active duty and we both have a role in disaster response (her now much more than I). So we needed an off grid solution for our home. I did the system mostly myself, hybrid on/off grid with a battery bank and generator backup to the solar. Now that we have it all it’s pretty nice not having a power bill ~3 months a year.

Another fun repeating topic on the Tesla forum are people trying to buy all vegan cars... I always bring up the fact that it is impossible to ride and all vegan bike Since the tires have animal fat in them. And it’s also impossible to have an all vegan cat since they are obligate carnivores

EVs are fun. I got some time with BMW engineers back when the i3 was brand spanking new and have enjoyed seeing the progress of their adoption.

Also, doesn't Michelin now claim to derive the Stearic acid in their tires from non-animal sources, therefore potentially making them vegan. Granted I believe it's derived from Palm and therefore has its own host of issues that has been recently highlighted in the media.

Back on topic: Yes, my 200 uses gas. A lot of it.

 

[coleAK]

EVs are fun. I got some time with BMW engineers back when the i3 was brand spanking new and have enjoyed seeing the progress of their adoption.

Also, doesn't Michelin now claim to derive the Stearic acid in their tires from non-animal sources, therefore potentially making them vegan. Granted I believe it's derived from Palm and therefore has its own host of issues that has been recently highlighted in the media.

Back on topic: Yes, my 200 uses gas. A lot of it.

Yes there are non animal car tires in the USA but no non animal bike tires last I heard. I work with a guy who’s wife is a militant vegan (I’m pretty sure she is clinically insane) she made him either get rid of his bikes or order some vegan tires from Europe, at >$500 each... ironically she drives a diesel excursion.

 

[M1911]

I work with a guy who’s wife is a militant vegan (I’m pretty sure she is clinically insane) she made him either get rid of his bikes or order some vegan tires from Europe, at >$500 each... ironically she drives a diesel excursion.

The more I learn about people, the more I'm convinced that many of us are nuts.

 

[rockcruiser915]

The more I learn about people, the more I'm convinced that many of us are nuts.

and you would be correct! as a licensed provider of medical care, i can attest that psychiatric mental health disorders are by far the most under diagnosed clinical conditions in our country...but then again, by DSM-V standards, most of us are "nuts"

my 18' cruiser is thirsty too, although slightly better than most.

18.2 mpg mixed driving...87 octane

 

[Docboy]

and you would be correct! as a licensed provider of medical care, i can attest that psychiatric mental health disorders are by far the most under diagnosed clinical conditions in our country...but then again, by DSM-V standards, most of us are "nuts"

my 18' cruiser is thirsty too, although slightly better than most.

18.2 mpg mixed driving...87 octane

Agreed. I'm also a health care provider, and pretty sure most providers are wackos to begin with, or driven by the workload to end up a nutcase.

18.2 mpg in mixed driving is impressive. Mostly flat freeway miles?

 

[Noah Miller]

Never look anymore, commuting 75-80mph daily through Atlanta. The smallest expense on my LX is the gas to run it.

 

[TeCKis300]

Ok I thought it was just me... Every time I fill up I feel like I'm not putting much gas in there and it's because of this conservative DTE calculation! I just haven't had the truck long enough to really figure it out. I was about to have the 40gal aux tank ordered because I was tired of filling up every three days but maybe I just need the 12.5 or 24 and to use my odometer to see how much gas I have left.

@TeCKis300 , any issues with your tank that I sound watch out for? I really like the idea of being able to go 500+ miles on one tank.

In use, only minor quibble is that filling the stock tank through the replacement dual filler neck takes a bit more attention. Now that I'm use to it, it's a non-issue.

Installation, there were a number of issues that I documented related to instructions missing steps and tank cutout clearance for the charcoal canister. (EDIT: LRA has corrected these issues as of June '19) It's an involved install just the same, something like 8-12 hours. I don't know that LRA has corrected the issue but I was able to work through them and ultimately am fine.

That aux tank fixes my biggest complaint about the 200-series - fuel tank range (rather than mpg).

Install thread here - Cruiser Brothers 12.5 LRA Aux Tank Install in LX570

 

[Haggis]

Back on topic, my numbers are virtually identical to member "Union" numbers.

 

[TeCKis300]

There's plenty of data points already and nothing really new to be learned.

Stock gets respectable mileage for what it is. It gets to be a slippery slope with mods if one is not careful.

 

[Hothonda]

2015

comb of city/hwy 15mpg

Best I've ever seen 18; worst 12

 

[rockcruiser915]

Agreed. I'm also a health care provider, and pretty sure most providers are wackos to begin with, or driven by the workload to end up a nutcase.

18.2 mpg in mixed driving is impressive. Mostly flat freeway miles?

Pretty much... I live in west Texas and commute approximately 70 miles a day to and from clinic, mostly freeway. ECT always on, 65-75mph on the freeway in the am, plenty of stop-n-go on the way home. Considering what the cruiser brings to the table, the mileage I’m getting is phenomenal.