Home heating question (bleed valve?) (1 Viewer)

[Jman]

The heating system in our house is hot water baseboard. The zone for the top floor has been making some noise recently, so I have to get the air out of the system again, and the only I can do that is flushing it from the furnace end, which is a bit of a pain (shut off furnace, attach hose, open/close valves, wait until water runs cold, get it running again).

I was thinking I could install a valve at the highest point to "burp" the system periodically--is that routinely done? Is there some sort of in-line air seperator available? I've done poking around and haven't found any.

 

[NEK_VT_FJ60]

I'm pretty sure such a thing exists. Go down to a good plumbing supply place, not home depot, and ask at the counter. I defintely won't be a burp valve type situation at the highest point, but something to put inline before or after the circut setter. Could be pricy. I'm no specialist though, I mostly deal with hot air stuff.

 

[swank60]

Should I install ANYTHING into a high-pressure hot water system?

Are you nucking futs?

Granted, I don't have any experience with this sort of heating system, but there are just certain things that say "don't touch - if you screw it up, someone will wind up in the hospital" --or is it not that dangerous?

Have you called a pro?

 

[Jman]

Should I install ANYTHING into a high-pressure hot water system?

Are you nucking futs?

Granted, I don't have any experience with this sort of heating system, but there are just certain things that say "don't touch - if you screw it up, someone will wind up in the hospital" --or is it not that dangerous?

Have you called a pro?

HA HA HA, LOL, well "high-pressure" and "hot" are sort of misnomers. If I fawk up, I won't have scalding jets of steam coming out, just a dribble of 150° water coming out (the system is pressurized at significantly-less-than-plumbing psi, not sure of exact numbers).

Besides, I know enough to turn the system OFF before starting work.


NEK_VT_FJ60--What? You expect me to go outside and talk to real people? Who might actually do this for a living? What the feck is this board for, then? Thanks, I'll take a stroll. Who knows, maybe my system has one, but it's busted. Then I could just swap parts.

 

[swank60]

I still think you're nucking futs for fooling with it. But, again, I grew up in the South, and we don't have much trouble with that silly little thing you call "Winter" - so what do I know?

 

[haystax]

All of the old-school radiator heating systems have valves at each radiator installation that allow for air to get back into the system, boiler/radiator systems are not closed systems, you have to add more water to the boiler periodically. Once the steam has passed though the radiator, physics take their course and the return side is just hot water at ??? psi, but probably not that much higher than your regular plumbing system.

We have the same style baseboard water heaters but haven't had any problems, I know there isn't much pressure in those and you could probably figure out a simple valve to open until water sprayed out.

I don't know if a home depot would be worth a s*** for this type of thing, they don't seem to have anyone over the age of 19 working there and anyone over that age is working there because the state pays their salary

There are specialized plumbing catalogs that I've seen that have these valves for the systems that can be over 100 years old, try a local plumber or search online before asking the retards at home depot.

 

[Jman]

All of the old-school radiator heating systems have valves at each radiator We have the same style baseboard water heaters but haven't had any problems, I know there isn't much pressure in those and you could probably figure out a simple valve to open until water sprayed out.

We live in what I call a "vertical ranch" home--basement and three stories, very narrow. For the top zone, water has to travel from the basement to the third floor just to pump heat out two 11' long and one 3' long baseboards. Even a little bit of air it seems can compromise a loop like that--and I figure if my truck don't like air pockets, neither will my house.

I totally agree with your assessment of Home Depot. Used to go there, until it got to the point that the "help" needed help in helping me--I would have to explain what I was looking for, tell them why what they were telling me was wrong, then help them help me find it. Last time I was there, the only staff I could find were hanging out outside the men's room talking about cars. I walked out in disgust and haven't been back. I guess their corporate need to deliver a profit meant changing their business model a bit. The store used to be mildly annoying, now it just plain sucks. I was resigned to paying a premium at local stores, but I found out that Home Depot doesn't even offer the best prices anymore! My local mom and pop shops were competitive.

 

[haystax]

A lot of Home Depot stuff will also have a different model number than the "identical" product offerings elsewhere, most of the time it is "HD" in front of the regular model or serial number - wonder why it is $40 cheaper, probably has to do with quality of the tool stocked at Home Depot.

 

[NEK_VT_FJ60]

Used to go there, until it got to the point that the "help" needed help in helping me--I would have to explain what I was looking for, tell them why what they were telling me was wrong, then help them help me find it. Last time I was there, the only staff I could find were hanging out outside the men's room talking about cars. I walked out in disgust and haven't been back. I guess their corporate need to deliver a profit meant changing their business model a bit. The store used to be mildly annoying, now it just plain sucks. I was resigned to paying a premium at local stores, but I found out that Home Depot doesn't even offer the best prices anymore! My local mom and pop shops were competitive.

Exact same situation here. At home depot I would spend an hour explaining to sombody what I wanted because they didn't know what it was, then it would take an hour for the fork lift to come, than it would take an hour to check out. Poor help, low quality, and crowds.

I use a local lumber yard and hardware store here. No lines, the guys know me, know my house, know what I need and give me a good deal.

If the air release turns out to be a dead end, You might also try a stronger pump for that zone. You should try calculating the pressure the pump needs to overcome the 3 story rise.

 

[NEK_VT_FJ60]

Of course you turn off the system and drain it before you cut in. I'd be more worried about water staining the wall or carpet than scalding myself with lukewarm water.

Should I install ANYTHING into a high-pressure hot water system?

Are you nucking futs?

Granted, I don't have any experience with this sort of heating system, but there are just certain things that say "don't touch - if you screw it up, someone will wind up in the hospital" --or is it not that dangerous?

Have you called a pro?

 

[LukeZero]

You want a coin vent or a baseboard tee- go to a good supply house (read wholesale only), but more likely, hire a professional.... if you want suggestions go to www.heatinghelp.com and click on find a pro. I'm listed there but you're probably not near us. The pressure at the base of the system must be at least .434 lbs, per vertical foot of rise to overcome anything. Add an air locked section of baseboard to the equation and no- your circulating pump won't overcome the resistance. Example, height from boiler to highest point= 20'. pressure in system (measured at boiler) must be at least 8.68 psi, not accounting for friction loss or air in system. PM me if you want more detailed information. Luke Lefever, Lefever Plumbing and Heating, Inc, Elkhart, Indiana.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Jman,

You ARE on the right track and NO you are NOT nuts. Most commercial hot water heating systems have an air vent at the highest point of the system. Go to a decent plumbing joint and ask for an automatic air vent (easiest as you simply install it) or a manual air vent. The brand is likely going to be "Maid-O-Mist" of something similar. They are a little larger than a 35mm film can and have a shraeder valve on top. Change the elbow on the top most rad to a "T". It'll be easiest if there is a union close by that you can take apart. Put the air vent on the top of the "T" as high as you can and still stay in the cabinetry. Then just hold the shraeder valve down till water bubbles out. You may want to do that every few weeks until you don't get air any more.

There is also chemicals that should be in the system to prevent aeration and scale. Call a commercial heating and ventilation contractor for the name of a water treatment company in your area that can advise you what should be done and how much chemical you need.

I was a heating and air conditioning system troubleshooter and air in the hot water heating system is the NUMBER ONE problem of no heat complaints.

 

[Jman]

Okay, great, this sounds doable. I still *might* hire someone to put it in, but at least this gets me started.

The circ. pump still is getting the job done--we're getting heat on the top floor, but with the addition of air to the system comes significant noise (it was whisper quiet after I flushed it in October) so I want to get back to that state so it doesn't spook the kids.

Thanks much, guys!

 

[swank60]

Just for clarity, I'm wasn't talking about taking apart the system while it's in action. I'm talking about when he puts it back together, doesn't do one stupid step that only the manufacturer or a pro would know about, fires it up and, well...you see where I'm going: Carnage. Hot, boiling water scalding anuses and other important body parts you don't want scalded.

All the knights in "Search for the Holy Grail" thought that the little fuzzy bunny at the mouth of the cave was harmless, too - but they had to break out the Holy Hand Grenade, didn't they? Retarded analogy? Sure. But I'm pretty sure that there's no Holy Hand Grenade that would solve this problem if there was one.

Sidenote, if you do it wrong, your wife is going to call you a moron for a month - at the bare minimum. And you'll never, ever hear the end of it if you go even half a day (or, heaven forbid) one night without heat. If you hire someone and something goes wrong, you've got someone else to blame (for no heat, scalded anuses, whatever...)

Another side note for Jman:
You have to watch Garden State when you get a chance. Desert Storm Trading Cards not only get a mention, they make a brief appearance as well.

 

[Jman]

Dude, what are you smokin'? Monty Python? Scalded anuses? What kind of sorry orphanage did you grow up in?

Heh heh, I must be married longer than you--no way my wife calling me a moron has any affect on me anymore . . . .


Rental queue: Old School, Anchorman, Garden State. . . . .

 

[swank60]

Hot Water Burn Baby!

Hot Water Burn Baby!

No Hot Water For Charlie Babbot!

 

[swank60]

There are just certain things in this life that I like to think I have better sense than to mess with. I'll never own a horse or a blimp, and I'll never work on a home heating or cooling system.

I know my limitations.

 

[Jman]

That's a shame, horses are awesome. Don't know about blimps.

Hey, you work on your truck, don't you? Did you know that inside the metal box up front there are little explosions going off all the time????????

 

[swank60]

WHAT????!!!

Next thing you know, you'll tell me it's dangerous to do handstands on the second story of a hotel balcony...

And I'd bet that horses are awesome - but could you imagine how you'd feel if you killed a horse? And a blimp would beat a horse any day, but I still wouldn't own one. I'd f' it up in a big hurry.

 

[haystax]

Swank60 - are you actually a girl in real life?? Quit being such a and go play with fire or something - chainsaw juggler my ass!!!

And are you that worried about scalding your anus? That would be like the last body part that gets hit with a direct spray, unless you were warming your naked ass with a baseboard heater Although it does sound extremely painful, that was really random dude, and just a little weird too at the same time.