Holy relay rod! What the hell?!

[sleeoffroad]

As to the initial issue, it could be that it was weakened before, but I would also check everything out pretty closely. It seems to be that something had to bind for it to bend that easily. Did you guys check the tie-rod clearance to the control arms?

 

[sandcruiser]

Not to get too far into chat territory, but I'm impressed that Christo took time to offer advice to someone who just bashed him publicly.

re: the tie rod... x2 on checking for binding at the wheel that didn't move. Even a bent tie rod shouldn't pretzel like that in your driveway

 

[Land Speeder]

No way that should happen on flat ground, even with the steering dampener gone as in the pic.

 

[Land Speeder]

Here's another observation per the pic (since that's all we can visually see). With the rod bent that badly, your wheels should both be pointing inwards (pigeon toe'd), and they aren't, so I assume that one side has been unbolted?
If neither side has been unbolted, then did you adjust the TRE's so much that the rod was too long, and thus bending it when trying to turn on flat ground? I've never done that but I bet it can happen, adjusting it too far out and making the pitman arm be too far adjusted as well.

 

[96r50]

The wheels should still be pointed in the same direction, since it is the tie rod (behind the axle) that connects the two knuckles. The relay rod (in front of the axle) connects the steering box (specifically the pitman arm) to the front of the PS knuckle.

 

[Land Speeder]

The wheels should still be pointed in the same direction, since it is the tie rod (behind the axle) that connects the two knuckles. The relay rod (in front of the axle) connects the steering box (specifically the pitman arm) to the front of the PS knuckle.

Damn! You're right, and not only that, but I talked about the dang pitman arm in my post completely contradicting myself within a paragraph.
Forget what I said up there!

 

[calstyl2]

Interesting. Any time I've ever talked to Christo or any of his people, They've always been helpful and forthcoming with any info and advice. I still remember when I called Christo 4-1/2 years ago to order my lift, he joke around saying I couldn't lift my truck. Caught me off guard for a minute. He's a good guy.
Sorry your buddy has had issues.

X2, Have had good discussions with him about stuff and never any issues, and I dont even run his stuff on my 80
He did cut into the line at a Trail Team BBQ and we ran out of food though

 

[LC80Ducati996]

Just because the knuckles seemed ok when there was no weight on them does not mean that they will pivot freely when there is. Check for binding of the tie rod first then check the knuckles per the FSM

 

[scouthead]

As to the initial issue, it could be that it was weakened before, but I would also check everything out pretty closely. It seems to be that something had to bind for it to bend that easily. Did you guys check the tie-rod clearance to the control arms?

Alright, it was not my intention for this thread to turn into a rant... So enough about all that stuff.

Thanks for the reply, and I hope it's not the tie rod rubbing on the control arm. I checked that when the front end was going together, and the arms did have to get clearanced a little. As I left them there was probably less than an 1/8" clearance between the tie rod and arms at their closest point (the tie rod swings in an arc in relation to the control arms; more clearance when pointed straight ahead, and tie rod swings down towards arms as wheels are turned) Altough the two parts did come very close at that one point, I could not make them touch while cycling the front end or turning the wheels side to side (although if you had the wheels turned hard and were running the truck hard enough, the bushings couldflex enough to make the 2 parts contact - but there has been no mention of racing this thing in baja...) I will check this again though.

Just because the knuckles seemed ok when there was no weight on them does not mean that they will pivot freely when there is. Check for binding of the tie rod first then check the knuckles per the FSM

Of course not. At that point the friction of the tires on the ground kind of makes things harder to turn. If you can check knuckle preload with the truck sitting on them, I would be impressed. My spring scale only reads up to 35 LBS. THe knuckles were within spec as per the Factory manual. So were the wheel bearings...

Of course that was without drive flanges in place.
With the hubs completly buttoned up, it was considerably harder to spin the wheels... I can't remember the last time I had one of my cruisers with the front end off the ground, and locked in the hubs and then tried to turn the wheels with the axle shafts engaged... So I don't really have a feel for the comparison...

 

[scouthead]

Lets say that there was something up with the Transfercase... Like the center diff lock was damaged or stuck in the engaged mode. Any good ways to check something like that?

 

[LC80Ducati996]

I know you cant check preload with weight on wheels.. Since you cant after a problem like this I would pull the knuckles apart enough to inspect the bearings and races. From your initial post I am not sure if the old axle needed knuckle bearings or if you also installed new bearings in the used axle you swapped in.

 

[jjdeneen918]

The vehicle in question is mine, I've been out of town for the weekend. So I've finally looked into the problem.

I determined my new front axel, which is now equipt with a locker, was engaged in the "locked mode". (not yet wired it up yet, still sourcing parts)

So the binding of the'locked' front-end on pavement, as well as an already slightly bent relay-rod was most likely the culprit.

Scouthead and I fixed the rod by cutting the ends, sleeveing the ends and replacing the center with 3/4" solid bar stock. We then sleeved the center bar stock with 1" tubing, welded it all together and a few rosette welds to boot! It looks bone-stock except it is a completely solid rod.

It is way more overbuilt then before, and HEAVY. Scouthead took pics and they will be posted in the near future if anyone is interested.



On the Slee-rant side note. (Not to bash, libel, or otherwise. Just expressing my experience, I'm sure others will see differently or have had difference experiences.)

I was not happy with the parts delay. I fully understand out-sourced parts and delays.

But after a month of hearing, "They been made, I'm just waiting on them to be shipped to me." I kind of felt like I was hearing too many excuses, and for too long.

After several weeks of calling, I even gave Christo another week to receive the parts. He offered to ship me the complete pan-hard rod, but would have to charge me the extra $150. I declined and said I'd wait.

The next week (my finace actually called, as I was out of town) he still didn't get the part. I again said this was taking too long and Slee should "cover the cost" and send me the complete rod at no cost to me.

He refused, and said he would rather loose the business than upgrade the part. He said he just could not cover the difference.

At this point the install was half complete and welded into my car. I was stuck at his mercy, parts delays, and I think he knew it.

I felt I was basically being EXTORTED by him if I wanted my project done in the near future. I explained to him how I felt, being extorted, and how he could not tell me when he would get the part. Unless I piad to upgrade to the complete pan-hard rod I would have an uncompleted car.

Christo had the adacity to tell me he felt I was trying to extort him! (I had been waiting over a month), I had been polite and and offered several times to wait, but when I became this long I felt he sould have made it right with the customer.

Again I understand out-sorced parts. But Christo made the decision to do business with the machine shop. Not me. And he could have done more to make it right.

That being said I would never do business with him again. It sounds like my experience was is not the "norm" with him, but it was my experience.

 

[concretejungle]

turn the truck on a flat parking lot as tight a circle as you can. Listen for tire scrub AKA binding.

 

[sleeoffroad]

On the Slee-rant side note. (Not to bash, libel, or otherwise. Just expressing my experience, I'm sure others will see differently or have had difference experiences.)

This is also not a bash and I did not want to get into this on-line, but I feel that I have the right to reply and state our view on this.

I was not happy with the parts delay. I fully understand out-sourced parts and delays.

At the time you placed your order, we did not have the DIY adjuster in stock. You were informed of it and given an ESTIMATE of when we would have it, based on information we were given by our supplier. You were also offered a complete rod instead of the DIY part at the difference in cost. You chose not to take the part we had in stock and wait for the DIY part.

But after a month of hearing, "They been made, I'm just waiting on them to be shipped to me." I kind of felt like I was hearing too many excuses, and for too long.

Unfortunately we were strung along by our machine shop. We have nothing to gain by lying about having a part in stock. Everytime you called and spoke to either myself or Ben we explained that we are going on information that is given to us
by the supplier. Everytime we offered you a solution in terms of the complete rod - ready to bolt in, but you chose to wait.

After several weeks of calling, I even gave Christo another week to receive the parts. He offered to ship me the complete pan-hard rod, but would have to charge me the extra $150. I declined and said I'd wait.

Correct, the part is an upgraded part and does not cost the same. We offered it at the price difference.

The next week (my finace actually called, as I was out of town) he still didn't get the part. I again said this was taking too long and Slee should "cover the cost" and send me the complete rod at no cost to me. He refused, and said he would rather loose the business than upgrade the part.

He said he just could not cover the difference.

In view of the above, and that the part was offered to you at the time of the order, I did not feel that we should have to comp that part. I offered a refund of the money that was charged for the DIY adjuster. Your wife refused that. After several calls I was threatened that you would call your credit card company to dispute the charges. I informed your wife it was ok, but I would want the previously supplied parts back if you do so.

At this point the install was half complete and welded into my car. I was stuck at his mercy, parts delays, and I think he knew it.

I informed your wife that the truck is drivable with the original panhard rod. The part you were not supplied did not disable your vehicle, unless you already cut the rod. She said that your mechanic said the truck is disabled in the driveway. This is simply not true. This is illustrated by a lot of people on Mud that drive their trucks without this. It was also pointed out in the original thread discussing your suspension install.

I felt I was basically being EXTORTED by him if I wanted my project done in the near future. I explained to him how I felt, being extorted, and how he could not tell me when he would get the part. Unless I piad to upgrade to the complete
pan-hard rod I would have an uncompleted car.

Christo had the adacity to tell me he felt I was trying to extort him! (I had been waiting over a month), I had been polite and and offered several times to wait, but when I became this long I felt he sould have made it right with the customer.

I explained to you wife that we simply did not have the part. I gave her our machine shop's number and asked her if she would please call them to confirm that I was not lying to her and that they informed me that they had 2 pieces ready. If they in fact did (and this was not another story on their part) they should send it directly to you to avoid further delays. They did ship the piece directly to you 2nd day.

Again I understand out-sorced parts. But Christo made the decision to do business with the machine shop. Not me. And he could have done more to make it right.

We have done a lot to make things right, but in this case, yes there was delays, but I felt that we offered a solution a number of times, also at the time of placing the order. If you were not notified that the part was unavailable at the time of you placing the order as well as the fact that we can not guarantee delivery, we would have dealt with this differently.

At no point in this transaction were you lied to or strung along. We have nothing to gain by withholding product. The only issue was I was given miss information from my machine shop. I offered to send the copies of our email correspondence to your wife so she could see what we were promised and when.

We have done business with the particular shop for a long time, however this situation has changed that.

That being said I would never do business with him again. It sounds like my experience was is not the "norm" with him, but it was my experience.

I am sorry that you feel that way. All I can do is apologize again.

 

[-Spike-]

We have done business with the particular shop for a long time, however this situation has changed that.

I know how difficult it is to find reliable vendors. Changing a long-time vendor shows how seriously pissed Christo must have been at the machine shop.

-Spike

 

[M0627]

jjdeneen918

Custom machined parts take time. It is not at all uncommon to wait 4-8 weeks for parts. You caught Slee at the wrong time for that particular part, be patient. Quality parts don't just appear out of thin air. Your truck being "disabled" is your responsibility not your parts supplier, and as stated your truck was not disabled just not finished. You knew your choices, not to mention you spent a bunch on all the other lift components why be cheep about another 150 bucks?

 

[Atticus]

Why did you start your build if you knew that the part wasn't there?

Why would anybody expect someone to give them something for free?

 

[jjdeneen918]

Alright, this is the fiancee, jumping in at jjdeneen918's request, since I was the one who ultimately delt with Slee. I know NOTHING about cars, so please don't jump on my back if I get the terms wrong or anything. I'm just relating my experience with Slee Offroad.

Christo, I understand that your hands were tied a great deal by your machine shop. I told you I did not blame you for this, and neither myself nor my fiancee was angry with you for not having the part. What bothered us was the way you handled the situation.

As I said, I know nothing about cars, but I have years of experience in customer service and sales, and you simply DO NOT treat your customers with this kind of disrespect. You do not throw your hands up in the air and say "Sorry, nothing I can do." If I treated my clients with the same indifference and defensiveness that you treated us, I would be out of business within a year.

I understand that it was your machine shop that originally messed up the order. But their service is a reflection on your business, and you should treat it accordingly. If you cannot offer the upgraded part at no charge, fine. But you should at least have offered us some kind of discount on either the part we ordered or the upgrade, or sent the design to another machine shop, or done ANYTHING to show that you were working to resolve this problem.

I find it very interesting that after I called the machine shop myself, we had the part in two days. I'm not insinuating that you were plotting to keep the part from us, I'm just saying that this machine shop, whom you do not trust and constantly deride, was so very helpful to me. I don't know what you did to piss them off, but clearly the problem was between you and them and not just on their side, as they were EXTREMELY helpful and prompt in my dealings with them.

I wish this situation could have turned out differently. Just from what I've read on this thread, I can see that you clearly have a faithful following in this industry, and I'm sure your parts are of reputable quality. But you need to work on your customer service, or you risk losing more business from people like my fiancee who don't appreciate being treated like petulant children.

 

[bhmmapping]

I still don't understand why he should have given you the part for free? not to mention you didn't even really need the adjuster to drive the truck and based on your fix of the relay rod clearly could have just fabbed your own adjuster for not much more effort than it took to install the one you were waiting for.

 

[sleeoffroad]

As I said, I know nothing about cars, but I have years of experience in customer service and sales, and you simply DO NOT treat your customers with this kind of disrespect. You do not throw your hands up in the air and say "Sorry, nothing I can do." If I treated my clients with the same indifference and defensiveness that you treated us, I would be out of business within a year.

We did offer a solution that was not satisfactory to you. We did not disrespect a customer, we simply had no solution that fitted what you expected.

Since you wanted the DIY adjuster there is nothing I could do at that point except for waiting for the order to come in. We have built our business on customer service but this time we felt we were not wrong.

The only mistake that was made, is that we charged for the part at the time of the complete order. This was discussed at the time as well and at that time I was confident based on correspondence I had that I would get the parts. When we realized that we were not going to have it in time, and when it also appeared that you and your fiancee was aggravated, we also offered to refund the money at that time.

I understand that it was your machine shop that originally messed up the order. But their service is a reflection on your business, and you should treat it accordingly. If you cannot offer the upgraded part at no charge, fine. But you should at least have offered us some kind of discount on either the part we ordered or the upgrade, or sent the design to another machine shop, or done ANYTHING to show that you were working to resolve this problem.

Yes, their service is a reflection on our business and we have dealt with it. Sorry, but we did not feel that we needed to comp part or a discount when we felt we were not at fault.

I find it very interesting that after I called the machine shop myself, we had the part in two days. I'm not insinuating that you were plotting to keep the part from us, I'm just saying that this machine shop, whom you do not trust and constantly deride, was so very helpful to me. I don't know what you did to piss them off, but clearly the problem was between you and them and not just on their side, as they were EXTREMELY helpful and prompt in my dealings with them.

I did nothing to piss them off. They failed to deliver. To date the machine shop has delivery 3 pieces for a total order of 40 that I placed in August. When you called they had two units done. One was shipped to you, one was shipped to me. I have all my email conversations with them about these delays that I would happily post up.

I wish this situation could have turned out differently. Just from what I've read on this thread, I can see that you clearly have a faithful following in this industry, and I'm sure your parts are of reputable quality. But you need to work on your customer service, or you risk losing more business from people like my fiancee who don't appreciate being treated like petulant children.

I apologized personally and publicly. I am sorry you felt that you were treated with disrespect, but we also feel that customers have to be understanding of issues that develop.