Holley Sniper Tuning (1 Viewer)

[ksollinger]

Hey all.

I'm currently running the Holley Sniper 2300 on my otherwise stock 82 fj40. My fj40 has now turned into my daily driver so I'm trying to tune the sniper now that I'm driving more. I was wondering if anyone else running the sniper can comment with some of your settings or what works and what didn't. The only issue I'm currently trying to resolve is it likes to bog down when I hammer down on the throttle.

Current Settings

Target AFR at idle 13.0
Target AFR at cruise 14.0
Target AFR at WOT 12.0
Acceleration enrichment 29.6 lb/hr

Idle is set at 725 rpm

 

[BrianSanDiego]

Hey all.

I'm currently running the Holley Sniper 2300 on my otherwise stock 82 fj40. My fj40 has now turned into my daily driver so I'm trying to tune the sniper now that I'm driving more. I was wondering if anyone else running the sniper can comment with some of your settings or what works and what didn't. The only issue I'm currently trying to resolve is it likes to bog down when I hammer down on the throttle.

Current Settings

Target AFR at idle 13.0
Target AFR at cruise 14.0
Target AFR at WOT 12.0
Acceleration enrichment 29.6 lb/hr

Idle is set at 725 rpm

Hello. If tweaking the Acceleration Enrichment doesn't clear it up you might just need to wait for it to do some more learning. And if that doesn't work out you might need to do some hand-tuning on the laptop.
When you hammer it, watch the air-fuel mixture display and see if it's going rich or lean. That'll help you see which way to go with the enrichment setting.
I'm running a V8 and 4bbl so can't add any specifics but maybe someone else can give you numbers.

 

[B y r o n]

Doesn't it have a self learning mode?

 

[BrianSanDiego]

Doesn't it have a self learning mode?

It self learns the air-fuel table which is the bulk of the tuning. You have to adjust the acceleration enrichment, which usually isn't difficult. There are also some other parameters that can use some hand tuning, like startup enrichment, temperature enrichment...
It self tunes but you need to do some stuff by hand to get it totally dialed in. I don't think Holley mentions that.

 

[GA Architect]

Hey all.

I'm currently running the Holley Sniper 2300 on my otherwise stock 82 fj40. My fj40 has now turned into my daily driver so I'm trying to tune the sniper now that I'm driving more. I was wondering if anyone else running the sniper can comment with some of your settings or what works and what didn't. The only issue I'm currently trying to resolve is it likes to bog down when I hammer down on the throttle.

Current Settings

Target AFR at idle 13.0
Target AFR at cruise 14.0
Target AFR at WOT 12.0
Acceleration enrichment 29.6 lb/hr

Idle is set at 725 rpm

I've been running the stock settings for a few months now on my Sniper 2300, seems like it does well with those. If you are not happy, you can create a dlz file and send to Holley for their advice.

 

[B y r o n]

It self learns the air-fuel table which is the bulk of the tuning. You have to adjust the acceleration enrichment, which usually isn't difficult. There are also some other parameters that can use some hand tuning, like startup enrichment, temperature enrichment...
It self tunes but you need to do some stuff by hand to get it totally dialed in. I don't think Holley mentions that.

Maybe this info will help then.

 

[BTG88]

I just had one put into my '75. The shop drove it for ~100 miles dialing in the parameters. They said that because the EFI "thinks" faster than the engine can respond, that accelerating from standstill aggressively can cause it to bog. FWIW, they have tuned it to idle at 800-850, instead of the stock 650, and a little richer than neutral on air/fuel mixture. I drive it normally and don't notice that I have to baby it off the line. It certainly runs like a much more modern engine now.

 

[BrianSanDiego]

I just had one put into my '75. The shop drove it for ~100 miles dialing in the parameters. They said that because the EFI "thinks" faster than the engine can respond, that accelerating from standstill aggressively can cause it to bog. FWIW, they have tuned it to idle at 800-850, instead of the stock 650, and a little richer than neutral on air/fuel mixture. I drive it normally and don't notice that I have to baby it off the line. It certainly runs like a much more modern engine now.

There are actually six (!) acceleration enrichment parameters you can get into using a laptop, cable and Sniper software. It *possible* (although beyond my knowledge) to get it dialed in perfectly, but using the handheld and the single adjustment slider should get it pretty close. When you stomp on the gas see if the AFR goes rich or lean, and adjust the slider accordingly.
also: My old V8 loves to run rich. About 13:1 at idle and 14:1 cruise. I think old design motors want more fuel than new stuff. FWIW.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

I've fought more than a few of these Snipers. Some run near perfectly and only need some final adjustments now that we've got super hot, muggy weather (the owner tells me to leave it alone, and that I'm the only one that notices what I'm trying to get out). Others, well, they aren't happy. Same program was loaded into each of them. The laptop tuning opens up the toolbox for making these programs work. The handheld is useless for tuning when real tuning is required.

So far the main contributors to giving the auto-learn a fighting chance are:

• Fuel pressure needs to be confirmed to be to Holley's spec
• Timing needs to be confirmed. I've had the best results with timing bumped up to 9-10*
• Return fuel needs to flow FREELY. These Snipers seem oddly sensitive to back-pressure. Holley should have given a maximum back-pressure spec with the manual. It may be due to the dodgy regulator they used... but I'll digress.

Unfortunately, once the bogging/missing/bucking/sputtering starts, I've not seen the auto-learn clear it out. The logs I've pulled show what looks like an aliased pressure wave coming through the intake. Pretty much the only way you get that is by having electronics or software that can't keep up with what is being measured, which is why I think the software can't clean it up. If you can get the settings close enough to keep the sputtering at bay, then yes, the auto-learn will do its thing, and in some cases, it'll really move fuel tables around.

So far all of the units I've tinkered with have needed some seat time with the owner replicating the issue, and me punching away on the PC until the thing behaves.

 

[rflegal]

X2 on using the PC. You can do so much more. I graduated from an old Projection 2Di - what a difference. My unit's down right now due to some spun bearings but happy to share the config if you want to see it. I found that being able to smooth the 3-d graph (smooth all) after the initial learn has helped to smooth out operations. Just don't overdo it.

When you look at things like the fuel graph, you might see artifacts that can be dampened and speed up learning.

Last config file - wouldn't let me upload the file type. PM if you want me to send it.

I'm not an expert by any means yet, but this system is good enough I would buy another.

 

[ksollinger]

Well I ended up resetting everything and starting over. Seems to be running a little better but still bogging a little when I step on it. Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[BTG88]

The bogging on WOT was the last thing that my installer needed time to adapt. I think that if you are really looking to go "all the way" with how far these ancient engines can go, then you are looking to update the engines like Moseley does with their Hi-Po and Super Hi-Po engine rebuilds.

 

[rflegal]

One thing I noticed, if mine started to sputter, it seemed to "loose" the config, especially if I did anything with the electrics. I found if I simply reloaded the ecu config from the SD card it went back to OK.

Next time it sputters, try it. Pull over and reload through the hand held, turning off for 4 secs. as it says, and restart and see if it helps. I'm curious. It's kinda like it looses the tune.

I know the whole system is sensitive to power. Will NOT run well if the battery is marginal and giving below 12v. Chargers won't let it run either - battery has be tip top as well as alternator.

 

[rflegal]

Well I ended up resetting everything and starting over. Seems to be running a little better but still bogging a little when I step on it. Thanks for everyone's input!

I fix this by making sure IAC started fro 8-9 in idle and adjusting butterfly. You end up with a little higher idle, I think it was 760-790, but the bog was gone. Also get a vacuum gauge, it helps tune. Wish it was part of the display somehow.

 

[wngrog]

Good info here. Commenting just to be able to find it.
One thing I have found on WOT on mine is in 3rd and 4th on my 60. If I’m at 90-100% TPS it will slightly big bit if I pull back 60-80% it will clear up and accelerate. Not sure what causes this.

 

[BrianSanDiego]

It can take a while to finish learning in the less used areas of the fuel map. It just might need more learn time at WOT

 

[Zjohnsonua]

@wngrog , you're experiencing the same issue I've seen on two other trucks. Datalogs don't catch the deep throttle sputter in good resolution, and this leads me to think the ECU can't see the sputter clearly enough to self-tune it out. I've had success in improving the condition by throwing fuel at it in the acceleration table, but the solution hasn't been a one size fits all kind of thing yet.

 

[wngrog]

@wngrog , you're experiencing the same issue I've seen on two other trucks. Datalogs don't catch the deep throttle sputter in good resolution, and this leads me to think the ECU can't see the sputter clearly enough to self-tune it out. I've had success in improving the condition by throwing fuel at it in the acceleration table, but the solution hasn't been a one size fits all kind of thing yet.

I use stock Toyota plugs and monkey with the gap up from stock. I may have a bit too much gap. Have you messed with that at all?

 

[Zjohnsonua]

I've not. The ignition components are all OE and not controlled by Sniper on the trucks I've worked on, so it hasn't seemed connected to ignition. In each case, the sputter kicks in when manifold pressure is around 0.8 x Absolute Ambient Pressure, and when watching the sputtering event unfold on a PC, the AFR is jumping across 3-4 base fuel table cells at the same time as MAP is oscillating as the computer is trying to normalize the AFR. IIRC the AFR goes high and the MAP goes low before the sputter sets in. Given that I've been able to clear up the sputter with more fuel in some scenarios, I think the engine is simply leaning out in places and quasi-backfiring before sending a pressure wave through the inline manifold, which is screwing with stable fuel delivery to all 6 holes. My plan was to get the table fat enough to stabilize AFR, and then let the learn function pull fuel out as needed.

 

[TEQ]

I'm just starting to get my head around Sniper tuning. For now, I'm pushing the shop that installed it to "get it right" vs doing it myself. In the spirit of doing this, does anyone have anything to comment on with this short video I took yesterday?



The rig runs well, but I think there are issues that can be fixed to make it better. Given my limited knowledge here's a start:

1. TPS never goes higher than ~62. I understand it should go to 90% or more on pedal to floor. Is that right?
2. I have tons of pressure in fuel tank. I should be able to remove the cap without a big hiss, right?
3. Duty cycle seems high?
4. I rarely see anything close to 14.7 AFR. Seems rich. Too rich?
5. Charging ain't right. My ammeter is horked and the voltage shown on Sniper is clearly low.

Any help appreciated I as I get smarter about this!