Help with traction control warning light & wheel locking - 2001 LC (1 Viewer)

[MattOOTO]

Hello all. Apologies for a long post, but this issue has taken up many hours of my time (including reading hundreds of posts and links from here) and I wanted to be as thorough as possible in describing the issue and background.

First a quick & dirty summary: my 2001 LC (~240k miles) has issues with traction control and a front wheel locking. I have owned this vehicle for ~3 years, starting at ~193k on the odometer. These issues only started occurring after work was done on the truck in Bogota, Colombia at ~220k.

1) the least dangerous, when driving at highway speeds (80kmph+) on the highway, when making a slightly sharper than normal turn (let's say taking a turn rated for 60kmph), the traction control light will come up and beep beep beep.

2) the main concern, when driving uphill OR downhill over 60kmph and I turn the steering wheel more than ~15 degrees, the traction control warning comes on and the outside front wheel locks. Both of these stop as soon as I put on the brakes myself. When going uphill, there seems to be about 20-30% chance for the wheel to lock. Downhill it will lock all the time (unless I already have the brake pressed, in which case only the warning happens).

I can reproduce both of these issues close to 100% of the time.

Now I'll give a much longer summary of what led to this. To start with, my wife and I have been traveling for ~18 months in this truck; we started driving in Seattle and we're currently in Santiago, Chile.

2001 Land Cruiser. Bought it with 193k miles, no major work needed.
At 197k, replaced the right CV axle.
At 207k, was T-boned by someone running a red light; replaced rear driver side door, some cosmetic work and re-aligned rear axle (was shifted about 3cm).
209k, full inspection (fluids, suspension, tires, engine, etc) by Toyota dealer in CA.
218k, replaced all four tires with Toyo AT2 in Guatemala City.
225k in Bogota, Colombia went in for a general check on things and a few pieces of work. Primary related being replacement of all frame bushings and steering bushings.

Driving south after Bogota, a couple of times while driving around 80kmph on a flat highway, while taking a corner sharply (but not enough to drop below ~80kmph) the traction control light and beep beep beep would come on briefly. This happened 2-3 times. In Ecuador, it got worse; going uphill or downhill (but NOT on flat), above ~60kmph and when turning the wheel more than ~15 degrees, the "outside" front wheel would lock until I stepped on the brake myself. This scared me a lot. However, it was easy to avoid these circumstances so not too dangerous.

Took it to a shop in Lima and they adjusted the alignment of the steering wheel sensors with the computer and checked codes. No clear issue OR solution, but cleaned wheel sensors and checked the steering bushings and they thought with the realignment of the steering wheel sensors/computer, they thought it should be fixed.
I test drove it with the mechanic there extensively; I was able to reproduce the traction control warning but not the wheel lock (probably because there's not a lot of hills in Lima).

Drove about 1000km with the only issues being the traction control warning when I drove very aggressively (not often, I did it on purpose primarily). Then on a highway going downhill, the wheel lock occurred again. I was then able to reproduce it with the same actions as previously.

In La Paz, the guy thought he found the issue. Error code with traction control on his computer. The steering column was not aligned, the wheel turned too far left compared to right. He fixed this and the error code went away.

After La Paz, we drove for about another 500k without any issues. Then within the period of a few hours, it occurred again going uphill and downhill both. I was then able to reproduce it as I have before using the same steps.

We're now in Santiago and I have the chance to take it to a number of reputable shops. However, I don't want to do this until I have a better idea of what could be actually wrong.

Any ideas, suggestions, recommendations, etc? I would love ANY advice or ideas!

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Mike6158]

You'll get more than one answer. My guess is that all are correct. I had the same problem and replacing the steering rack solved it. However, about a year earlier I was able to clear snow from around the wheels and get somewhat normal behavior. My cruise control would also turn off in turns but only one direction (I believe it was right turns but I don't recall)

It's pretty unnerving when it slams on one brake while in a turn.

 

[ton504]

I had the same issues and my inner tie rods had lots of play. I only replaced the inner tire rods and that fixed it. Have them checked out and report back.

 

[bpe3]

No hills here in the Houston area, but I had the front brakes on my 2001 LX470 activating on their own for no apparent reason. Replaced right front wheel sensor and problem was solved.

 

[MattOOTO]

You'll get more than one answer. My guess is that all are correct. I had the same problem and replacing the steering rack solved it. However, about a year earlier I was able to clear snow from around the wheels and get somewhat normal behavior. My cruise control would also turn off in turns but only one direction (I believe it was right turns but I don't recall)

It's pretty unnerving when it slams on one brake while in a turn.

That's what I'm expecting also, seems to be a number of slightly different situations. The locking brake is definitely the most annoying part, but at least I know how to prevent it from happening. Steering rack is my main culprit now, given the issues only started happening after all of the bushings on the rack were replaced.

I had the same issues and my inner tie rods had lots of play. I only replaced the inner tire rods and that fixed it. Have them checked out and report back.

Very interesting, I'll do that.

 

[DaKruiser]

I had the same issue on my 01’ just a month ago. After reading a few posts here and checking tie rods and other suspension components I disconnected the battery for an hour letting the computer reset as well as verifying all tires were at correct pressure. That fixed it for me, so far.

 

[Skidoo]

I have had that issue of VSC braking one of the front wheels in tight turns. I found ball joints were bad, but have not driven it enough since to know if it is fixed.

 

[2001LC]

Wheel speed sensor(s) reading a difference in wheel speed from one to another. WHY?

Bad sensor possible loose, cracked or short in wire harness. But this will usually kick off a DTC. It's possible the sensor(s) is not secured (loose bolt or cracked) and moving around in knuckle didn't kick off a DTC.

Steering Rack mounting bushing are typically replaced with poly. The hard poly bushing will increase stress on RACK, TRE and Ball Joints. This can accelerate a mild issue of say TRE ball joint being a little loose, to wearing out prematurely. As ball joint or rack gears loosen up we get excessive play in front end. This can give confusing signal to wheel speed sensor. But this alone generally will not set off ABS via wheel speed sensor.

Loose Wheel bearings:
Wheel speed sensor can get a confusing signals when wheel bearings are loose. We can get play between Wheel hub and steering knuckle. The speed sensor is attached to steering knuckle with a 10mm bolt. As wheel hub spins the sensor reads at inner point on the hub that looks like gear teeth. The sensor rides very close to the hub. If bearings loose the hub may be shifting during turns. Factory recommend we repack wheel bearing 30K miles interval. From the first mile we drive after wheel bearings service (repacked), they start to loosen. As bearings loosen they start chattering (vibration). This chattering then starts causing wear on claw washer (scoring), this loosen bearing even more.

Most shop do not set breakaway preload when servicing bearings. They use old school technique to torque down adjusting nut on wheel bearings hand tight, leaving bearings way loose. I find it take 45ft to 74ft-lb (max I'll go) on adjusting nut of wheel bearing to get the proper breakaway preload of 9.5lb to 15lb of pull spring scale (fish scale).

Easy test to see if wheel bearings loose: With just one front tire off ground. Place a finger between wheel and caliper. Then try to move wheel in and out so wheel pinches finger between caliper and wheel. If you feel any pinch, wheel bearings are to loose. You can also watch TRE and rack for side to side play while one tire off ground. Also by using bottle jack under lower control arm to raise tire off ground, you can then test ball joints on that side. Just place a 20# pry bar under tire raising & lower bar pry up on tire, watching ball joints for movement.

Cracked wheel speed sensor:

Scored claw washer from loose wheel bearings:

Wheel speed sensors reads wheel speed here.

Ball joint inspect with 20# pry bar used under tire


Setting wheel bearing breakaway preload (at last few minutes)

 

[I Lean]

It's not exactly fixing whatever problem is causing the VSC to get mad, but you can very easily disable it. VSC OFF switch install.

 

[MattOOTO]

I had the same issue on my 01’ just a month ago. After reading a few posts here and checking tie rods and other suspension components I disconnected the battery for an hour letting the computer reset as well as verifying all tires were at correct pressure. That fixed it for me, so far.

I've done that, didn't make a difference. Thanks tho!

Wheel speed sensor(s) reading a difference in wheel speed from one to another. WHY?

Bad sensor possible loose, cracked or short in wire harness. But this will usually kick off a DTC. It's possible the sensor(s) is not secured (loose bolt or cracked) and moving around in knuckle didn't kick off a DTC.

Steering Rack mounting bushing are typically replaced with poly. The hard poly bushing will increase stress on RACK, TRE and Ball Joints. This can accelerate a mild issue of say TRE ball joint being a little loose, to wearing out prematurely. As ball joint or rack gears loosen up we get excessive play in front end. This can give confusing signal to wheel speed sensor. But this alone generally will not set off ABS via wheel speed sensor.

Loose Wheel bearings:
Wheel speed sensor can get a confusing signals when wheel bearings are loose. We can get play between Wheel hub and steering knuckle. The speed sensor is attached to steering knuckle with a 10mm bolt. As wheel hub spins the sensor reads at inner point on the hub that looks like gear teeth. The sensor rides very close to the hub. If bearings loose the hub may be shifting during turns. Factory recommend we repack wheel bearing 30K miles interval. From the first mile we drive after wheel bearings service (repacked), they start to loosen. As bearings loosen they start chattering (vibration). This chattering then starts causing wear on claw washer (scoring), this loosen bearing even more.

Most shop do not set breakaway preload when servicing bearings. They use old school technique to torque down adjusting nut on wheel bearings hand tight, leaving bearings way loose. I find it take 45ft to 74ft-lb (max I'll go) on adjusting nut of wheel bearing to get the proper breakaway preload of 9.5lb to 15lb of pull spring scale (fish scale).

Easy test to see if wheel bearings loose: With just one front tire off ground. Place a finger between wheel and caliper. Then try to move wheel in and out so wheel pinches finger between caliper and wheel. If you feel any pinch, wheel bearings are to loose. You can also watch TRE and rack for side to side play while one tire off ground. Also by using bottle jack under lower control arm to raise tire off ground, you can then test ball joints on that side. Just place a 20# pry bar under tire raising & lower bar pry up on tire, watching ball joints for movement.

Lots of great info! The steering rack mountings were replaced with poly. I've had the sensors checked (and just checked them again myself) and no issues there. The wheel bearings were tightened in La Paz, they were a bit loose; but may have loosened after that and before the issue occurred again. Driving on terrible washboard, dirt and other very unpleasant roads is a large bit of our trip so far.

I will also check the tie rods, as these two seem like possible candidates that I have not yet ruled out.

It's not exactly fixing whatever problem is causing the VSC to get mad, but you can very easily disable it. VSC OFF switch install.

Thanks for that. I found this previously and am considering this only as a last resort, given that I can still control via driving technique if the issue happens or not.

Thanks again to all for lots of great help and responses.

 

[MattOOTO]

I've had the sensors checked again, and also had the tie rods checked. No issues there.

However, the shop I went to is pretty sure they know exactly what the issue is. I'm skeptical, but curious what folks here thought. He said he is certain it is the clock spring in the steering column not being aligned with the steering wheel. He said it's likely when the steering bushings were replaced in Bogota (after which this issue started), they mis-aligned it at the same time. He thought this was likely the cause of the erratic wheel locking (i.e. system thinking we were skidding).

His additional evidence of this was to show an alert on the computer tester where the steering wheel turning angles (on the computer) did not match the actual angles (sometimes showing no turning, when the wheel was actually turning).

Thoughts?

 

[2001LC]

Interesting. I've never had to deal with clock spring. Ask them if they've seen this before?

 

[MattOOTO]

He said he hadn't seen it in a LC specifically but other vehicles (they are one of two specialized shops in Santiago who do high performance/racing/offroad/etc) with traction control/ABS it is something they have seen a few times.

The lock spring replacement seems relatively cheap/easy to do myself if that is the actual issue, but I won't be able to get the part for a few months. Until then I'll just turn ABS off since I feel confident it isn't a mechanical issue at this point. Until then I'm really curious to see what else I can find out about it.