Help with Front end Pop-Solved! Finally. (7 Viewers)

[Patassa]

Have you inspected the front sway bar links and mounting points/bushings at the frame? Especially passenger side, AC is known to leak down and rust out mounting point, could be shifting under hard braking.

I checked this out, actually completely disconnected sway bar from the control arms and zip tied the sway bar up and out of the way, no change.

 

[ROAM]

And this is why I don't take my vehicle to shops/mechanics. Things this guy told me...

"The torsion bars look maxed out" -Not even close, I have 1" of lift and proper droop, adjusting nut is only about half way up the threads.
"Torsion bar system has to be the worst system ever designed, you should think about getting rid of this" - Um, ok...yeah Landcruiser's are poorly engineered, noted.
"Did you hit something and knock the torsion bar out of alignment" - Is this even possible, wtf? It's literally captured on two ends with splines. Ok
"I think the torsion bars just need to be adjusted" -"....um, not even sure what that means but ok yeah, I'll...try that".
"Ironman uses some cheap metal for their parts (torsion bars), we normally see OME" ...cheap metal. Ok guy.

Needless to say, still no smoking gun here. I plan to separate the ball joints from the hubs and check them for play/noise/range of motion etc. Will report back.

A lot of us are having the pop after installing the lift. Mine started instantly. It is possible that a run of parts slipped through QC?

As far as I can tell, this is a fairly new complaint from those of us with recently installed IRONMAN kits exclusively.

I plan on getting under truck this weekend but it does seem to be a bushing pop that realigns when the truck tracks straight. Like the diff is twisting. Like it's not torqued correctly. It was.

 

[Patassa]

A lot of us are having the pop after installing the lift. Mine started instantly. It is possible that a run of parts slipped through QC?

As far as I can tell, this is a fairly new complaint from those of us with recently installed IRONMAN kits exclusively.

I plan on getting under truck this weekend but it does seem to be a bushing pop that realigns when the truck tracks straight. Like the diff is twisting. Like it's not torqued correctly. It was.

I'm wondering if it's possibly the splines on the torsion bars. I may drop both of them and grease or never seize all 4 ends and see what happens. Can't hurt.

 

[Patassa]

Update: Torsion bars have been thoroughly lubricated. No change.

 

[Patassa]

Torn down the front drivers side, replaced the lower control arm ball joint with new 555 brand from Napa. Pulled hub off and checked wheel bearings, they have roughly 70k on them and look brand new. The grease inside was still bright red like it's never seen water. The bearings and races showed zero sign of wear, couldn't find a single mark on them after degreasing them. Will put this side back together and see if that was the culprit, if not, will tear down both sides completely, dropping lower control arms, and take pictures of all bushings, looking for something out of whack. Will also pull CV's and test for unusual play/wear. All of these components have been replaced in the past 50-70k so I don't expect to find much but I'm open to the possibility that something failed earlier than it should have. This isn't much fun, but with a 2 week road trip coming up, much of it overlanding off-road, I don't want to constantly be thinking an impending failure is coming nor take any chances on the highway.

 

[Patassa]

A lot of us are having the pop after installing the lift. Mine started instantly. It is possible that a run of parts slipped through QC?

As far as I can tell, this is a fairly new complaint from those of us with recently installed IRONMAN kits exclusively.

I plan on getting under truck this weekend but it does seem to be a bushing pop that realigns when the truck tracks straight. Like the diff is twisting. Like it's not torqued correctly. It was.

Any news on this? I dropped my iron man torsion bars, looked for damaged splines or cracks, didn't notice anything. So I put never seize on both ends and re-installed them. No change in my pop.

 

[excessive]

on another thread related to this one, someone said it was their body mount. have you checked that? a simple test could be just removing the body mount bolt to inspect the bushing

 

[mckunz]

on another thread related to this one, someone said it was their body mount. have you checked that? a simple test could be just removing the body mount bolt to inspect the bushing

I am experiencing this same thing currently. Mine started after running through a barbed-wire fence though...

Seems to be coming from the body mounts on slight articulation and turns and when comprising the side of the cruiser.

I will be trying to diagnose a fix here soon but have not tried removing the mount.

 

[mckunz]

I am experiencing this same thing currently. Mine started after running through a barbed-wire fence though...

Seems to be coming from the body mounts on slight articulation and turns and when comprising the side of the cruiser.

I will be trying to diagnose a fix here soon but have not tried removing the mount.

UPDATE: I sprayed the body mount with WD-40 and it is gone now.

 

[Patassa]

Interesting, Ill have to try spraying the body mounts.

 

[Patassa]

UPDATE: I sprayed the body mount with WD-40 and it is gone now.

How did you narrow it down to which body mount or did you just spray them all?

 

[Red Beard]

I might try spraying some lube into the Lower Control Arm bushing No. 2 and see if that helps.

 

[mckunz]

How did you narrow it down to which body mount or did you just spray them all?

I rocked the vehicle back and forth from the front passenger fender while listening and then feeling where it was coming from, for me it was the passenger forward mount by the radiator.

I then sprayed it and rocked again without the sound and test drove it without the sound as well, I'm guessing some rock or dirt or grime got stuck up there or it was really dry after my accident and then the wd-40 cleared it out and lubed it up.

 

[UltTrail runner]

Would this be the source of the sound? Sound is coming from the inner end of CV I believe it is from where the car receive the CV axle.

 

[Patassa]

Would this be the source of the sound? Sound is coming from the inner end of CV I believe it is from where the car receive the CV axle.

That looks like normal lash inside the front CV to me.

 

[Patassa]

Update:

I've replaced both front lower control arm ball joints. No change, but at least I can get on the road for our 2500 mile road trip next weekend knowing my ball joints aren't about to give way. Re-packed both front wheel bearings, they were in great shape. Thrust bushing also functioning perfectly and regreased. All three diffs were serviced with new lube, nothing concerning on the magnets. CV's have no play, I even pulled the passenger side one and reseated it. No change.

I did find this though, and I'm wondering if this could be the cause. The tabs that hold the brake pad in the caliper were either broken (on one side) and not make any contact on the other. If I'm understanding the tabs correctly, they are what is needed for the pad to be pulled off of the rotor when the calipers retract, so maybe the pad is "sticking" to the rotors, instead of the usual caliper sticking problem some people have. I'm going to order new hardware asap and see if this fixes it.

In the mean time I'm about to drop the sliders off and see if they are the source while I'm waiting for the brake pad hardware. I'm also going to loosen up my diff drop and spray the aluminum spacers with grease where they contact the frame mounting points in case those surfaces are causing the pop for some reason too.

I'm running out of ideas though of none of these things fix it. Also running out of give a s***s, this has all been a ton of work.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Update:

I've replaced both front lower control arm ball joints. No change, but at least I can get on the road for our 2500 mile road trip next weekend knowing my ball joints aren't about to give way. Re-packed both front wheel bearings, they were in great shape. Thrust bushing also functioning perfectly and regreased. All three diffs were serviced with new lube, nothing concerning on the magnets. CV's have no play, I even pulled the passenger side one and reseated it. No change.

I did find this though, and I'm wondering if this could be the cause. The tabs that hold the brake pad in the caliper were either broken (on one side) and not make any contact on the other. If I'm understanding the tabs correctly, they are what is needed for the pad to be pulled off of the rotor when the calipers retract, so maybe the pad is "sticking" to the rotors, instead of the usual caliper sticking problem some people have. I'm going to order new hardware asap and see if this fixes it.

View attachment 3014778

In the mean time I'm about to drop the sliders off and see if they are the source while I'm waiting for the brake pad hardware. I'm also going to loosen up my diff drop and spray the aluminum spacers with grease where they contact the frame mounting points in case those surfaces are causing the pop for some reason too.

I'm running out of ideas though of none of these things fix it. Also running out of give a s***s, this has all been a ton of work.

You are going through a very similar process to me. I have a pop that feels like tension building and then a pop. It happens when I turn in and the suspension rocks in the turn, or pull in/pull out of an "uphill" driveway or approach where the frame torsions.

I too have nearly everything replaced in the front suspension, wheel bearings are good, etc. That being said, steering rack number 2 (likely non-OEM) is at about 65k and could be the problem; and I have some diff bushings on order. The main diff bushings have been replaced, but the front arm has not. I did wedge in shims on the front arm bushing until it was centered, and didn't see any change in behavior when it was supported.

I'm curious on if this is a steering rack related issue; or something related to the foam cell shocks I have (Tough Dog) which have been leaking since about 20k miles.

I haven't tried greasing body mounts, but could see those being a source of the noise. It is very consistent now and I can replicate it easily; just cant find the source.

I have tried driving with hub flanges off and front driveshaft removed as well as a club member said it might be a diff issue; but no change there so I've eliminated the diff. Also think that by doing this I've likely eliminated the diff bushings as the noise as with everything disconnected they wouldn't be loading/unloading.

I dropped all of my skids as well, no change at all in noise.
Dropped my sway bar end links and zip tied that up as well, no change in noise.

Thinking about other potential items:

Steering rack bushings
Steering rack lash/preload (skipping teeth)
Steering shaft - U-Joints? Seems unlikely but I feel a pop in the wheel somewhat.

Motor/Trans mounts? Seems unlikely
Aftermarket front bumper binding and releasing? Have tightened some of the bolts and noticed no change. Can spray gaps down with oil and see if any change; unlikely.
Torsion Bars? Seems unlikely but am going to spray with oil today as well.
Lower Control arm bushings? I replaced these a few thousand miles ago, so am going to retorque everything related to that and see. All of my ball joints, etc. were good when inspected at that time; and I'm not just going to throw parts at the problem - but would like to figure it out.

Definitely an odd issue.

 

[Patassa]

You are going through a very similar process to me. I have a pop that feels like tension building and then a pop. It happens when I turn in and the suspension rocks in the turn, or pull in/pull out of an "uphill" driveway or approach where the frame torsions.

I too have nearly everything replaced in the front suspension, wheel bearings are good, etc. That being said, steering rack number 2 (likely non-OEM) is at about 65k and could be the problem; and I have some diff bushings on order. The main diff bushings have been replaced, but the front arm has not. I did wedge in shims on the front arm bushing until it was centered, and didn't see any change in behavior when it was supported.

I'm curious on if this is a steering rack related issue; or something related to the foam cell shocks I have (Tough Dog) which have been leaking since about 20k miles.

I haven't tried greasing body mounts, but could see those being a source of the noise. It is very consistent now and I can replicate it easily; just cant find the source.

I have tried driving with hub flanges off and front driveshaft removed as well as a club member said it might be a diff issue; but no change there so I've eliminated the diff. Also think that by doing this I've likely eliminated the diff bushings as the noise as with everything disconnected they wouldn't be loading/unloading.

I dropped all of my skids as well, no change at all in noise.
Dropped my sway bar end links and zip tied that up as well, no change in noise.

Thinking about other potential items:

Steering rack bushings
Steering rack lash/preload (skipping teeth)
Steering shaft - U-Joints? Seems unlikely but I feel a pop in the wheel somewhat.

Motor/Trans mounts? Seems unlikely
Aftermarket front bumper binding and releasing? Have tightened some of the bolts and noticed no change. Can spray gaps down with oil and see if any change; unlikely.
Torsion Bars? Seems unlikely but am going to spray with oil today as well.
Lower Control arm bushings? I replaced these a few thousand miles ago, so am going to retorque everything related to that and see. All of my ball joints, etc. were good when inspected at that time; and I'm not just going to throw parts at the problem - but would like to figure it out.

Definitely an odd issue.

Thanks for the feedback, sounds very similar indeed. My steering rack and bushings are new, I've also replace both steering shafts a few thousand miles ago to elimate the feedback problem I was having off road, all that has worked and feels really right now so it's probably not that. Motor and trans mounts have been replaced. Torsion bars are new and been lubed. Control arm bushings only have 50k on them.


Just took the sliders off. No change.

I convinced my wife to drive over me to see if I could pin point the problem from under the car, no chance. Ever where I am under the car it sounds like that's where the sound is coming from,.it's just conducting through all the steel so no easy way to pinpoint it. In fact I couldn't even tell if it was originating in the front or the back when I was under it. Whatever it is, I think I've ruled out anything that could break or leave me standed for now so I may just have to live with it until something finally breaks or become more obvious. I should get the brake pad hardware next week, I'll put those on and report back.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Thanks for the feedback, sounds very similar indeed. My steering rack and bushings are new, I've also replace both steering shafts a few thousand miles ago to elimate the feedback problem I was having off road, all that has worked and feels really right now so it's probably not that. Motor and trans mounts have been replaced. Torsion bars are new and been lubed. Control arm bushings only have 50k on them.


Just took the sliders off. No change.

I convinced my wife to drive over me to see if I could pin point the problem from under the car, no chance. Ever where I am under the car it sounds like that's where the sound is coming from,.it's just conducting through all the steel so no easy way to pinpoint it. In fact I couldn't even tell if it was originating in the front or the back when I was under it. Whatever it is, I think I've ruled out anything that could break or leave me standed for now so I may just have to live with it until something finally breaks or become more obvious. I should get the brake pad hardware next week, I'll put those on and report back.

Looks like we are both using our Saturday similarly.

I just sprayed down body mount bushings, sway bar bushings, control arm bushings, steering rack bushings, etc. No change (test drove individually after each component was lubricated).

Sprayed down all of the gaps and hardware on my bumper, no change.

Lubricated torsion bars at the mounts. No change.

Removed my front shocks and drove around without them. The extra movement in the suspension (swaying in turns and additional compression pulling in and out of driveway) *seemed* to cause some more popping. But its tough, as there is no set number of "pops" that it does; regardless of how closely I mimic the previous test drive.

One item I did note is it looks like my lower control arm bushings have settled since I installed them. Unlikely, but I'm going to retorque them.

I also can confirm that my front diff's torque arm bushing is towards EOL and so I'm going to order a replacement. Am going to inspect the others, but PO's maintenance records show they were done about 75k ago.

I think you're right that the noise is transferring through metal, which is disguising it's origin; but I am highly confident it is originating from the T-bar adjustment forward. I sat in the backseat and went for a ride and could hear it up front; nothing in the rear.

It's puzzling for sure.

Do you have aftermarket upper control arms? What Torsion bars do you have?

 

[Patassa]

Looks like we are both using our Saturday similarly.

I just sprayed down body mount bushings, sway bar bushings, control arm bushings, steering rack bushings, etc. No change (test drove individually after each component was lubricated).

Sprayed down all of the gaps and hardware on my bumper, no change.

Lubricated torsion bars at the mounts. No change.

Removed my front shocks and drove around without them. The extra movement in the suspension (swaying in turns and additional compression pulling in and out of driveway) *seemed* to cause some more popping. But its tough, as there is no set number of "pops" that it does; regardless of how closely I mimic the previous test drive.

One item I did note is it looks like my lower control arm bushings have settled since I installed them. Unlikely, but I'm going to retorque them.

I also can confirm that my front diff's torque arm bushing is towards EOL and so I'm going to order a replacement. Am going to inspect the others, but PO's maintenance records show they were done about 75k ago.

I think you're right that the noise is transferring through metal, which is disguising it's origin; but I am highly confident it is originating from the T-bar adjustment forward. I sat in the backseat and went for a ride and could hear it up front; nothing in the rear.

It's puzzling for sure.

Do you have aftermarket upper control arms? What Torsion bars do you have?

Lol it does indeed.

I have new OEM (Toyota) upper control arms,. probably 50k on them.

I have the iron man 4x4 tosions bars installed.