Help Troubleshooting a Self Inflicted Electrical Issue (1 Viewer)

[bemerritt]

Ok folks, this may get long, but I wouldn’t mind some other opinions on the matter. Hell, just writing out all of the facts may lead myself to the answer.

First, the relevant mods that have been done that involve electrical
- Slee group 31 Upgrade Kit
- Odyssey Extreme Series Battery - 31-PC2150T
- Comeup SEAL GEN2 12.5rs, 12V WINCH
- ARB Twin Compressor with switch mounted
- 10 gauge wire thru passenger side firewall ran to rear for accessories (Fridge)
- Alternator Diode

All of this had been installed for over 6 months for the most part and haven’t had any issues.

About a month ago I had a couple instances where I pushed the button to start the cruiser and failed to start. I always assumed I shifted too soon out of park which seems to stop then ignition process. Shifted back into park and started up no problem.

Two weeks after that My wife let me know that it wouldn’t start while I was away on business. But later it did start. We assumed user error.

A couple weeks ago it failed to start again. This time it seemed stuck in a weird limbo, would start and wouldn’t power down. Lifted the hood to find this weird sound.



Trying to figure out what was going wrong, I started poking around with a multimeter and checking solid connections. What I noticed quickly that the ground wire leading to the winch was oddly heating up. So I disconnected power and finally got the system to shut down. After attempting this startup I forget the exact voltage of the battery but it was sub 12 volts.

I measured the resistance between the positive and negative cables leading to the winch and found there to be some resistance, I think in the 200k ohm range.

SO i charged the battery and added a couple gallons of gas, as I was parked on an incline and figured it wouldn’t hurt since by range was all the way down to 10 miles. After a little while, cruiser started right up.

Drove around for 2 weeks and no more issues. I have noticed the battery usually reads 12.4 after sitting for a little while, and will even go lower once not driven for a while.

I reconnected the winch for 2 days and noticed a similar slowly draining of the battery but didn’t experience any more failures. REally need to test this more, but had to head out on a trip and didn’t need dealing with a problem on the trail.

So...
- Battery voltage drops to 12.2 over the course of a couple days when disconnected from the vehicle.
- The battery is certainly wounded. I have trickle charged it occasionally to give it its proper charging voltage.
- The charging diode helps boost the voltage, but still isn’t ideal. However, It wouldn’t be this bad at holding a charge given these latest two points
- I drive this car maybe 5 miles/day when not using for a trip on weekends. A parasitic drain could be bad enough to not be overcome by minimal alternator activity
- Resistance form the positive and negative winch hookups. Is this normal?
- I first used the winch last November to pull people out in the dunes.

What would you all do next? Safe to assume the failures were from some sort of low voltage cutoff of sorts? It doesn’t seem to be a starter issue, as I do know those exist (I’m at 70,000 miles)

My plan is long term to have a solar panel trickle charging the game at its voltage It likes. BUT, before I install that, I want to get to the bottom of this. Solar at this point would just act as a bandaid I feel.

 

[bemerritt]

So I obviously think the winch is involved somehow. Interestingly enough, when it was first used, I noticed some oily residue on the outside of the bumper.

When I went home and cleaned the winch line, noticed it had deformed. Some sections very altered to almost a flat state.

No Idea if it is related at all. But it seems odd nonetheless.

 

[TeCKis300]

It does appear there is some odd parasitic drain or electrical issue. I would attribute the intermittent failure to start due to battery being low.

It wasn't clear, but did you isolate (disconnect) the suspected winch? Has the problem gone away since disconnecting?

Get a current meter so you can measure any phantom loads on wires (that warm ground wire).

The battery is also likely compromised at this point, whether you isolate the winch or not. I would also replace the battery.

The alternator diode is a misguided bandaid and if anything, further degrades an AGM when used in a hot engine compartment as it will cause it to vent electrolyte and die prematurely.

 

[bemerritt]

It does appear there is some odd parasitic drain or electrical issue. I would attribute the intermittent failure to start due to battery being low.

It wasn't clear, but did you isolate (disconnect) the suspected winch? Has the problem gone away since disconnecting?

Get a current meter so you can measure any phantom loads on wires (that warm ground wire).

The battery is also likely compromised at this point, whether you isolate the winch or not. I would also replace the battery.

The alternator diode is a misguided bandaid and if anything, further degrades an AGM when used in a hot engine compartment as it will cause it to vent electrolyte and die prematurely.

Thanks for the video, I’ll have to check it out. When I went with the diode I knew it wasn’t perfect, but I didn’t expect negative results.

I installed a manual shutoff switch for the winch and am keeping it disconnected for the time being.

 

[lcforlife]

I have the same exact winch and bumper, likely installed by the same exact person at Dissent no issues here, but I don’t have the Slee upgrade or diode. I’m not sure why the winch would play a factor in your car not able to power down?

 

[silverhorse]

Just for the fun of it. I would add an extra ground from your battery to the frame. . This has been an issue for me over many years with different Vehicles. A lot of it electrical issues. Come down to ground problems. Not saying that that's true in this case, but maybe worth a shot.

 

[bemerritt]

Just for the fun of it. I would add an extra ground from your battery to the frame. . This has been an issue for me over many years with different Vehicles. A lot of it electrical issues. Come down to ground problems. Not saying that that's true in this case, but maybe worth a shot.

Thought is that the winch is causing a static load on the battery. If there is any chance you could see if there is any resistance between the positive and negative winch hookup when disconnected from the battery, I would be very interested in the results. Thanks!

 

[cboyd]

there is some discussion on this thread which might be relevant:

Question: Auxiliary Battery Grounding

All, I've got my dual battery setup wired, and am happy with it, but after Googling around I see that there is a debate about where to ground the auxiliary battery. I have wired the auxiliary ground post to the nearby body ground along the inside of the engine bay. The ground point has good...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[OregonLC]

I don’t know what the draw is, but winches with wireless remotes (like my Comeup) have the radio powered continuously.

 

[empty80]

- Resistance form the positive and negative winch hookups. Is this normal?

When you measured the resistance reference above, was this positive and negative on the battery side, or was this positive and negative on the switching side. What was the status of the on/off switch? If the switch was open, there should have been no voltage, no current, and depending on your multimeter, it should have read OL. If the switch was closed, then it is possible for a resistance to be present. It is possible to have a faulty switch that appears off, but is still allowing current to activate the relay causing a constant drain on the battery, likewise with a faulty relay.

You said the ground wire was heating up? Is this cable a battery or chassis ground? Is it part of the source power for the winch?

 

[bemerritt]

- Resistance form the positive and negative winch hookups. Is this normal?

When you measured the resistance reference above, was this positive and negative on the battery side, or was this positive and negative on the switching side. What was the status of the on/off switch? If the switch was open, there should have been no voltage, no current, and depending on your multimeter, it should have read OL. If the switch was closed, then it is possible for a resistance to be present. It is possible to have a faulty switch that appears off, but is still allowing current to activate the relay causing a constant drain on the battery, likewise with a faulty relay.

You said the ground wire was heating up? Is this cable a battery or chassis ground? Is it part of the source power for the winch?

I measured the resistance before I installed the switch, so it should have just been the winch, which i expected to be OL. The ground wire that was heating up was the negative cable connecting the winch to the negative terminal of the battery.

 

[sleeoffroad]

FWIW, please check that your terminal extensions are tight on the military terminals. We have also seen some cases in high corrosion areas where the terminals corrode between the aluminum and the military terminals and cause a bad contact. If that is the case, the military terminal typically gets pitted. If so, clean, dress with a file, apply di-electric grease and re-install. You can also measure voltage while starting on the terminal directly, and then on the terminal extension to see if there is a voltage drop.

As for the winch, not sure on why the ground would get hot on the winch with no load on the winch.

 

[Fisher23]

I would wonder if the winch was powering on, and that is why the wire was hot and the line was pulled flat?
Maybe some celluloid issue with the winch?

 

[bemerritt]

Well it happened again. And wouldn't you believe it, it happened in the parking lot of the 4x4 expo in Costa Mesa a couple of weeks ago. Only had minimal tools and the only multimeter i had at my disposal was one of those cheap 12 volt socket ones, with two crying kids in the car ready to go home after being dragged around all day haha.

Anyways, tried my jumper pack and all sorts of stuff without success. Finally noticed the terminal connection to ground was loose, so tightened that. About this time a youtuber that I had for sure watched before was asking if i needed help, and sure enough it turned over next try.

Loose ground simple enough. But i still was using my jump pack and was not thorough with the troubleshooting to really figure it out.

So luckily, it happened again the following day in my driveway. Took off the whole slee kit extension that comes with the group 31 battery kit and cleaned it, noticed some pitting and sanded those clean. Put it back on and haven't had a problem since. So seeing as this has happened to others, i guess the case is closed. I'll have to look into other extensions i guess.