Harmonic balancer pulleys don't line up... (1 Viewer)

[Outback]

Okay, I'm well into my p/s conversion on Buddy. I'm wrapping up all the front end stuff and ready to tackle the steering column and gearbox next. But I ran into a small problem last night...

Once I had pulled off the single pulley harmonic balancer and put the double pulley balancer on I noticed I had a problem. I had bolted up the water pump and alternator temporarily to see if everything was kosher. Well.... The harmonic balancer needs to go further in by about 1/4" and the belts don't line up as I'd like them to.

The balancer is torqued to 130 ft/lbs. There is about 1/4" (ironically) of the polished seal surface showing still.

The water pump and alternator line up perfectly

What do you guys think? Should I continue to crank on the balancer and get it on there that last 1/4" or will that little bit of mis-alignment make that much difference with the thick belts FJ40's use???

I ask the wisdom of 'Mud to come to my aide here.... I really want to wrap up the front end and get on with the hard stuff

 

[65swb45]

The balancer is torqued to 130 ft/lbs. There is about 1/4" (ironically) of the polished seal surface showing still.

This is the part that would worry me. If you were to remove the balancer [which is what I recommend at this point] you would see that the rear of the two balancers is the same. Therefore, you should not see any of the polished seal surface. It makes me wonder if perhaps the splash shield that sits in front of the crank timing gear has somehow cocked and will not let the balancer seat. This would require removing the timing cover to fix.

 

[Outback]

I think I should add that my torque wrench may not be all that accruate. I'm sure that this could be a problem but it should be pulled in tighter than this... Right?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Do not run belts that are out of alignment no matter how small the misalignment is. You will have rapid belt wear and risk the belt jumping off the pulleys.
Find the cause of the misalignment and fix it before proceeding.

 

[Outback]

I think I just need to crank on it some more until it is lined up.

Should there be any of the shiny surface of the seal area showing? I would think that if there is any that it would be all crudded up and not nice and shiny. Hmmm....

I'll crank on it tonight. I hope the "big 'ol nut" don't give up on me and strip out. So close to buttoning this project up....

Jody.

 

[Pin_Head]

Take it back off first amd make sure that there is no obvious reason why it shouldn't slide on completely. I suspect that your Woodruf key slipped and is now carked.

 

[Outback]

Boys... I f'd up big time...

I pulled it off Pin_Head.... The nut came off really hard... Yeah, you guessed it, somehow I stripped the threads on the "big 'ol nut". It looks like there is some damage to the crankshaft threads too, but not much. I think they will clean up by running a die over them. The woodruff key looked okay and not carked. Hmmm...

I KNOW WHAT I DID WRONG THOUGH... I tapped the balancer on with a dead blow hammer around the edges and not with the "big 'ol nut's" socket in the center I guess I got it cock-eyed and it bound up. I should have known better but I didn't want to take the bib off... Dumbass lazy idiot!! I dunno though, the nut threaded on good for a while and was pushing the balancer back okay and then it got tight and I went on to torque it down. Hmmm... You know, this is the 2nd "big 'ol nut" I have gone through on this engine. The other one was wasted the exact same way about 5 years ago when I first got Buddy and was fixing the front seal oil leak Back then I didn't know squat, I should know better now.... !!!!!!!!!

I need to know...

1) What is the size and pitch of the crankshaft threads?? I measured 20mm x 1.50 with my calipers and thread file. I need to buy a VERY expen$ive die.

2) Does anyone have a spare "big 'ol nut" they'd like to donate to a idiot??

Jody <---- (The grand poobah fawking idiot.)

 

[65swb45]

There is a tool you can purchase called a thread restoring file. It is a long square-ish tool, about 12" long and 1/2" on each side and has 8 different thread pitches on it. You can usually chase the threads down pretty clean with this tool. It just takes LOTS of patience. And you will have to remove the radiator and the lower splash shield to make clean passes all the way around the crank.

 

[Lusedekache]

Yeah, thread files are nice. They've saved my butt once or twice.

 

[Outback]

I have a metric thread file and have been using it tonight with pretty good luck. I would just feel better running a die down those threads just to be sure... Lemme get a new big 'ol nut and see how the thread file has done...

Thanks for the advice though, maybe someone else will find it helpful too.

BTW... What are YOU doing up at midnight????

Jody.

 

[treerootCO]

Nutley just did his ps conversion and he bought a dual pulley for the water pump and the dual pulley for the crank. Turns out the dual pulley does not work with earlier style water pumps. There are two pumps and two different pulleys. If you added a later style balancer then you need a later style water pump. Not sure if this is the problem but I thought I would mention it.

SST for tightening or loosening the big ole nut:
Wrap a tiedown around the balancer pulley a few times and tie it off to the shock tower. As the balancer turns, the tie down gets really tight and will eventually prevent the pulley from moving.

Your replacement nut will be in the mail tomorrow. Don't worry about the shipping costs.

 

[madams557]

Water Pump Pulley

TreerootCO - you mentioned in your post about having concerns about the dual groove water pump pulley that Nutley was trying to install didn't fit his water pump. Does he have by chance the same single groove water pump pulley that I have shown in my post - "Help Identify this Water Pump Pulley"?

Also, on a side note. To remove the monster nut on the crank shaft pulley, I took a shop rag and wrapped it around the pulley. Then used a pipe wrench over the rag and leveraged it against the inside frame rail. Worked brilliantly.

 

[CruisinGA]

SST for tightening or loosening the big ole nut:
Wrap a tiedown around the balancer pulley a few times and tie it off to the shock tower. As the balancer turns, the tie down gets really tight and will eventually prevent the pulley from moving.

Or put it in 4th and set the parking brake good and tight.

 

[dd113]

Ya got all types of pumps out there. Early F/late F, basically the same. Mid years (75ish -77 ish 40 series) w/o fan clutch but with dbl pulley, some had an oil cooler option, most did not. 55 Series single F pullies, 55 series long single pulleys, 55 series shorts, all of the above in dbl pulley for tth mid years w or w/o oil cooler, later on to fan clutch with all dbl pullies and most with oil coolers. Later 40 series with fan clutch maybe with or w/o oil cooler then after 1979 it got easy. Most all of them are the same 40-60 fan clutch and oil cooler dbl pulley.

 

[Outback]

More details...

I got a new '76 water pump w/o oil cooler and w/o AC knowing I would need the longer shaft to accomodate the double pulley I acquired for the water pump.

When I mounted up the alternator in it's "2F" bracket up high on the passenger side and bolted up the water pump and double pulley, both lined up perfectly and led me to believe I was on the right track...

Last night a buddy and I looked closely at the crank and balancer surfaces. Looks like the crank is good but the balancer seems to have a slight groove/ridge/"spot" right in the middel of the mating surface. Not sure how to describe it but it is "there" and not present in the original balancer that came off. I may just need another double pulley balancer to cure this problem.

Treeroot -- you got a double pulley balancer up there in your stash????? I think I'm in the market for one I'm not interested in wasting another "big 'ol nut".

Jody.

 

[Outback]

A good-news update!!

Well, it looks like everything will be fine on the harmonic balancer thing now...

Last night I cleaned up the mating surface on the balancer, polished the seal surface and proceeded to put the balancer on PROPERLY!!!! with a big socket and my dead-blow hammer. It went on very nicely and STRAIGHT this time. I got it to go on all the way to where the pulleys line up perfectly!!!!

What a relief...

I also got my PS pump mounted up with the Mark's Offroad bracket and cleanly fabbed an adjustment arm with bracketing from the old alternator mount and what came with the Volvo 240 PS pump. Sweet

Now all I need to do is put the water pump on and get some belts. I'm almost done with the front end stuff....

Next thing to tackle is the steering column. I have a plan.... that will make it a job to complete. I may have PS by this weekend!!!

I hope so, I still need to install the front locker and swap sides with my rear springs before the picnic on Oct. 16th.

Anyhow, that's the update. Thank you all for the advice. I mostly messed this one up myself. Oh well, this is how we learn...

Jody.

 

[amandap]

Would you be willing to post a photo of your ps pump adjustment bracket? I'm at the same point considering how to modify one of the brackets laying around. Looks like a couple well placed 90 bends might do it. Nice to see what others are doing!
Don't feel too bad about your "big ol' nut" problem...these are the things that keep us humble! I just stripped out a water pump mounting hole...after chasing every hole in the block and already mounting this thing once! Boy do I feel foolish! where are those little censor guys?
thanks

 

[Outback]

Here 'ya go amandap.... As you requested That piece I am holding in the 3rd pic is exactly the same as the one I used. I'll send it to you if you can use it.

I used the original adjuster piece from my original "F" alternator location(attached to the water pump) and that new crooked piece. The crooked piece is solidly bolted to the pump and came with it. It's a Volvo 240 DL PS pump and came with some brackets and such still attached.

I don't think this setup is "booty fab" at all now that I think about it. I think it's a pretty clean setup... Well, except for all the washers on the water pump bolt....

Here's the Mark's Offroad PS pump bracket. Had to grind out the middle some, but not all Saginaw pumps have exactly the same reservoir.

 

[ian]

Stick a few more washers on there! Make a spacer and weld it onto the arm. It'll be a lot stronger. If you don't weld, go to a fabricator. Take a six pack.

Thanks for putting pics up. I'm thinking about moving my alternator over in prep for power steering (still debating). Looks like a good place to mount the pump.

 

[65swb45]

Toyota still offers an adjuster arm spacer with the bright zinc cad plate. It's only a few dollars and is about 3/4" long IIRC.