Handbrake failure... Help please

[lostmarbles]

With the new seal in place and the backing plate back on .... I turned my attention to refitting the bit you grab hold of when applying your park brake..

Copper grease on these threads (even though I didn't use it on the backing-plate bolts):

And here's the switch that operates the "Park Brake" light on my dash:

And I always like it when "patina" shows you how to reinstall parts in exactly the same position they were originally in:

Hopefully the clips and pins and new levers will arrive tomorrow so I can finish off then

 

[FJ40Jim]

I believe that @FJ40Jim had this figured out as:

9G5611

9 = 1979
G = July
5611 serial number

Maybe he can confirm

Confirmed & correct-a-mundo.

 

[racemaniac]

you cant have to many pics! good stuff

 

[lostmarbles]

Confirmed & correct-a-mundo.

Great..

And I'd love your input on something else here Jim...

I eventually did drain the oil in that transfer case (and really I shouldn't have resisted because it holds only 1.7 litres which isn't big $$$). And I'm troubled by the fact that it was very rusty in colour.. (Not just a dye-like colour either.. You could see that the colour was caused by many fine rust-like particles held in suspension..)

Now I noted this previously when I changed all the transmission oil back in March 2012 .... just over 4000kms ago. (The transfer case had this discoloration but the main gearbox, diffs, steering box and winch box did not.)

Going back to 2005 (and a further 20,000kms back on the odo) .... no discolouration had been noted..

Bearing in mind that there's no way anything should be rusting inside my transfer case (and that it has never held any water) ... I'm suspicious of the oil.

I use EP 80W/90 oil ... and until now .... those letters and numbers are the only thing I've cared about...

However, I'm pretty sure that back in 2005 (at the start of this discolouration problem) this is the product I started using in my entire transmission:

Now .... I see it is API GL5 and there's lots of talk these days about GL5 oils reacting with the bronzes used in older transmissions (which I've ignored until now).

So Jim ... What's your opinion on whether this discolouration is proof that this oil has been munching away inside my transmission for the last 10 years?

And if some or all GL5 transmission oils are indeed problematic for us (as owners of 40-series cruisers), why do you think the transfer case would be the most affected? (Does it have more bronze inside for instance?)

And if I do need to go back to GL4, should I change the oil once again in EVERYTHING? (ie. winch, steering box, front diff, rear diff, main geabox .....and of course transfer case).

Thanks in anticipation..

Cheers - Tom

PS.

1. I'm pretty sure the discolouration I'm experiencing can only be being caused by chemical reaction..
2. While I've already drained and discarded the oil in the transfer, it shares it's oil with my power-take-off. So I may try in a minute to drain what's left in that & post up an image of the oil's colour for all to see
3. I've ignored the talk of low-sulphur-diesel harming seals inside injector pumps and have been running low-sulphur-diesel for many years without problems .. So this is probably part of what gave me the confidence to ignore the GL5 warnings (until now).

 

[roma042987]

interesting topic tom because I also noticed that a recent drain of the transfer case on one of my cruisers revealed a similarly discolored fluid. The fluid in it at the time had be changed less than 6k miles ago and I had actually planned on reusing it until I noticed how filthy it was. I too have been ignoring the ever so popular topics on low sulphur levels in diesel fuel as well as the gl5 topic.

 

[lostmarbles]

And these just arrived on my doorstep ....

Shame I probably won't have the time to fit them today..

There's been a lot going on here...

Even had a scammer on the phone half an hour ago (calling himself "David Black" and even giving himself fake Spark employee identification number DL880017) pretending to be telecom-worker ..... no doubt intended to dupe me into doing something that gives him access to my computer and passwords etc..... (This is so commonplace here now that Spark has line set up specifically for receiving calls on it.) No doubt he lives overseas.. sounded like a heavy Indian accent to me... But of course, with the wonders of modern technology he was able to give his number as an Auckland number (09 8890696). Feel free to ring him and abuse him if anyone wants to .... (What an A-hole ... wasting my valuable time...)

e

 

[FJ40Jim]

My understanding is the GL5 rated oil is bad for brass syncro rings. There are no syncros in the T-case.
The t-case is a hot, nasty environment with the gears always under heavy load. And there is not a lot of oil in the t-case. I'm never surprised when the t-case oil looks beat, and the transmission oil looks new by comparison.

 

[lostmarbles]

My understanding is the GL5 rated oil is bad for brass syncro rings. There are no syncros in the T-case.
The t-case is a hot, nasty environment with the gears always under heavy load. And there is not a lot of oil in the t-case. I'm never surprised when the t-case oil looks beat, and the transmission oil looks new by comparison.

Thanks Jim

So, just to try and alleviate my concern even more, you wouldn't be worried then if your transfer oil turned to this colour in just 3 years and 4000kms without anything "extreme" being involved (ie. no V8 power, no turbo, no deep water crossings etc)?

(Ignore the lumpy bits... It's not debris. It's just roughness in the plastic bottom of the container. ........ I saw very little sign of metal particles in the oil .... but of course you always get at least some metal-sludge around the drain plugs and I did get that.)

This oil came from the bottom of my power-take-off box a few minutes ago...

As you can see, I dropped the sealing washer.. (and it is inevitable that I'll always drop at least something into any dirty oil I drain)...

BTW - These days I like to use soft aluminium washers on all my drain/fill plugs from this set:

 

[FJ40Jim]

To my eyes on this monitor on the other side of the planet that oil looks a little moist. Check to be sure the breather is clear. It may be pulling in atmoshpheric humidity and not letting it escape.

 

[thebigredrocker]

I am learning from this post. Thank you for taking the time to include all the small but important details. Your photo's are top notch and very helpful. Grand Champion post in my opinion.

 

[Feistl]

Hey guys,

I just thought id share my experience with doing the Subaru rear handbrake conversion....
I got the idea from Sadam a few weeks ago, and have just finished (as in 3 days ago) installing the setup into my FJ40.

From what i have found the calipers are the same across most Subaru models which have front handbrake. In Australia that means the Leone and Vortex, however in the USA you can find them from the Subaru Brat models. I was very nearly going to buy a set of rebuilt ones on US Ebay for ~$60, but shipping was a bit expensive plus i found a decent set locally.

To do this conversion there are a couple of steps...

1. The hubs need to have some material shaved from the outer ring.
2. The rotor (I used a FJ40 front rotor from a 81-84 model) needs to have some material shaved from the inner part so it will clear over the hub. (Otherwise the rotor)
3. You require a matching pair of calipers and mounts from a donor vehicle (Leone, Brat, Vortex etc)
4. You will need to cut out a bracket to bolt up to the diff. I used and recommend 10mm steel.

Here are some pictures below of my setup including the bracket i made...

I found i needed a 1mm shim between the bracket and the caliper to align the caliper directly in the centre of the rotor.

Sorry those are the only photos i currently have on me (Im at work), however i can probably grab some more pictures if required. I am also contemplating making a digital template and laser cutting a couple more sets as i am rebuilding 3 FJ40s currently. If i do make a template i am happy to post it up.

Cheers

 

[handcannon]

Many thanks for this post Feistl!! I guess I'm being lazy, but any templates you are willing to post will be much appreciated. I would especially appreciate any dimensions you have concerning how much you had to take off the hubs. I've been busy enough that I forgot to dig out the Subaru calipers I have. Too many other projects not related to my 40 going on.

Just did some calculating of thickness. 10mm + 1mm = .43307 inch ------ 3/8" + 1/16" = .4375 inch. So, after looking up the average diameter of human hair, the inch measurement thickness plate is just over the thickness of a thick human hair thicker than the equivalent mm measurement plate.

Don

 

[lostmarbles]

interesting topic tom because I also noticed that a recent drain of the transfer case on one of my cruisers revealed a similarly discolored fluid. The fluid in it at the time had be changed less than 6k miles ago and I had actually planned on reusing it until I noticed how filthy it was. I too have been ignoring the ever so popular topics on low sulphur levels in diesel fuel as well as the gl5 topic.

I think we can relax again Roma (and remain being skeptics as far as "GL5 transmission oils causing significant negative effects to 40-series transmission components").

I've just developed another theory (and I think I'm on the right track this time) as to why my transfer oil turned that nasty rusty colour..

And, although I didn't say so in my last post, the oil I drained from the power-take-off actually shocked me.. The contamination appeared considerably worse than with the previously discarded oil I had drained from the main transfer drain plug a few days previously.

To confirm my theory, I've just got to now go through my maintenance records and check what I did just prior to March 2012... and I'll do that shortly.

To my eyes on this monitor on the other side of the planet that oil looks a little moist. Check to be sure the breather is clear. It may be pulling in atmoshpheric humidity and not letting it escape.

Thanks heaps Jim..

In the absence of seeing any other plausible explanation for why my transfer oil colour could turn so ugly in such a short time with such low mileage ..... I thought it had to "GL5 (chemical-reaction) related".

I've never been inside my transfer case and when you revealed to me that it didn't hold much in the way of brass/bronze for the GL5 to attack ..... blaming the GL5 no longer made sense ........so I had to continue pondering for some other cause...

The breakthrough came when I was walking the last leg to work yesterday ..... An idea suddenly entered my head when I wasn't knowingly even thinking of the problem!

BTW ... I still don't think anything has been rusting inside my trnasfer case .... but I do think what we're seeing in the oil really is rust!!

Confused? .... Never mind... All will be revealed soon. (Hopefully.)

I am learning from this post. Thank you for taking the time to include all the small but important details. Your photo's are top notch and very helpful. Grand Champion post in my opinion.

thanks...

 

[lostmarbles]

Found it.... I did the job quite a bit earlier than 2012 though ... My records show I did it in September 2007 and this timing still fits with "no discolouration noticed during my 2005 oil change" and "discolouration first noticed on my 2012 oil change".

What did I do you may ask?

Well .... in Septemeber 2007 I removed my speedo cable and lubed it with heaps of grease before reinserting it back in its sheathing (as part of my sometimes-obsessive preventative maintenance program).

Now what I believe has been happening since then (and accounting for the rust contamination of my transfer oil) is that this grease has been continually oozing down the sheathing into my transfer case taking 30-years worth of rusted metal-dust with it....

Da da!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys think of my theory?

So, based on this theory, I have no intention of discontinuing my use of Castrol EPX 80W/90 API GL5 in the near future (despite respecting the opinions of those who warn against using GL5 transmission oils in 40-series).

My policy has always been to stick with reasonably-priced mainstream lubrication products and only go to more-expensive non-mainstream products when I have convincing evidence of the need to do so. (I have never seen that evidence yet. )



BTW. I'll increase the frequency of the oil changes on the transfer case now until the oil ceases to show any significant rust contamination (with my next change probably in 1500km's time).

 

[Wes]

Found it.... I did the job quite a bit earlier than 2012 though ... My records show I did it in September 2007 and this timing still fits with "no discolouration noticed during my 2005 oil change" and "discolouration first noticed on my 2012 oil change".

What did I do you may ask?

Well .... in Septemeber 2007 I removed my speedo cable and lubed it with heaps of grease before reinserting it back in its sheathing (as part of my sometimes-obsessive preventative maintenance program).

Now what I believe has been happening since then (and accounting for the rust contamination of my transfer oil) is that this grease has been continually oozing down the sheathing into my transfer case taking 30-years worth of rusted metal-dust with it....

Da da!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys think of my theory?

So, based on this theory, I have no intention of discontinuing my use of Castrol EPX 80W/90 API GL5 in the near future (despite respecting the opinions of those who warn against using GL5 transmission oils in 40-series).

My policy has always been to stick with reasonably-priced mainstream lubrication products and only go to more-expensive non-mainstream products when I have convincing evidence of the need to do so. (I have never seen that evidence yet. )



BTW. I'll increase the frequency of the oil changes on the transfer case now until the oil ceases to show any significant rust contamination (with my next change probably in 1500km's time).

Isn't there a seal that keeps oil, grease, and dirt from leaking into and out of the transfer case through the speedo gear?

 

[roma042987]

interesting theory Tom but now I wonder my transfer fluid was discolored? I haven't been lubing my speedo cable.

 

[lostmarbles]

Isn't there a seal that keeps oil, grease, and dirt from leaking into and out of the transfer case through the speedo gear?

Well.... Yes. Here's the setup for my July 1979:

But I can't see that seal as being anything but "ineffective".

That spinning cable doesn't exactly spin "true" because it isn't a tight fit in the sheathing and there's always going to be a lot of wear and slop.

I think any oil that happens to go up the cable (inside the sheathing) from the transfer case would be seen (by the Toyota design engineers) as being benificial in helping lube the rotating cable too .... although gravity would tend to prohibit any such movement of course.

And Toyota never applied much in the way of lube to the cable so movement of grease or oil in the other direction (ie INTO the transfer casde) wouldn't have been expected either.

interesting theory Tom but now I wonder my transfer fluid was discolored? I haven't been lubing my speedo cable.

The small volume of oil in the transfer (compared to the main gearbox) and the fact that the oil there has more work to do (see Jim's comment in post #47) could maybe account for it.. (unless the oil you drained was as putrid as mine LOL)...

 

[Feistl]

Many thanks for this post Feistl!! I guess I'm being lazy, but any templates you are willing to post will be much appreciated. I would especially appreciate any dimensions you have concerning how much you had to take off the hubs. I've been busy enough that I forgot to dig out the Subaru calipers I have. Too many other projects not related to my 40 going on.

Just did some calculating of thickness. 10mm + 1mm = .43307 inch ------ 3/8" + 1/16" = .4375 inch. So, after looking up the average diameter of human hair, the inch measurement thickness plate is just over the thickness of a thick human hair thicker than the equivalent mm measurement plate.

Don

Hey,

Basically when you get the hub and a new rotor and try to fit them together, you can see the two areas which need material removed. I took 6 rotors and 6 hubs to a local machine shop who machined out the required material. I didnt get exact measurements of how much they removed...

Also, i should note at this point it seems that all Australian 40 series came with full floating rear diffs, so i have no idea if the semi float diff also require the hubs to be machined or not.

As for the thickness of material, the 10mm value is irrelevant in terms of alignment, you could use anything from 6mm up to 25mm+, i just recommend 10mm as that what local engineers and ADR (Australian Design Rules) specify to be safe. Now using my l33t paint skillz ill try show how it works...

Firstly, obviously nothing is drawn to scale

When you bolt the custom bracket onto the axle housing and put the calliper over the rotor (Centered in the middle) there is a small gap between the calliper mounting face and the "back" of the custom bracket. This will need to be filled with a shim (Or at worst some washers). If you bolt it up directly the calliper will be offset and the rotor will rub on the calliper housing rather than the pad.

In an ideal world, i would machine off the bottom of the bracket where it bolts up to the axle as this would also remove the gap. However i don't have the tools to machine off enough material accurately, and the shim/washer method allows you to a few different combinations to find what works best.

As you can see you could make the bracket out of any thickness as it doesn't effect the relationship between calliper and mounting surface of the axle.

This took a fair bit of stuffing around to get it working, but it does appear to be a fantastic solution to getting a handbrake that actually works. Plus in my case allowed me to fit a H55F 5 speed gearbox.

Cheers,

 

[lostmarbles]

I've done a bit this morning (before work this afternoon/evening) and taken quite a few pics too. So I'd better carry on and post up the pics...

Here's the new lever (exactly as supplied) alongside the old stuff:

I decided to put a bit of moly grease on the pivot pin areas:

Here's me sqeezing together one of the new clips:

And here's how I got off the old ones:

 

[lostmarbles]

Looking at the finished assembly from the rear (towards the front of the vehicle):

And looking at it from the other direction:

You'll note that Fig. 9-300 in 1980 FSM 36044 shows all the clips in the last view (directly above) but in my photo you can see only one. Well Toyota determined which way the pins were pointing when they assembled my new lever-mechanism. They chose not to comply with the FSM ... and hell it makes no difference anyway to the operation of the whole thing ... so I'm not caring...

Then I added some copper grease to a few places as follows:

This time I have the lower spring correctly BEHIND the shoes: