No admonishment. You have been negative this whole thread and said your reason was it didn't belong in 80's tech
Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SS_Storm
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No admonishment. You have been negative this whole thread and said your reason was it didn't belong in 80's tech
I think sceptical is an understatement. We've had over 400 posts with no tangible, testable, confirmable results. By all means, I think this thread is teaching us a lot about these "systems".
Like previously mentioned in this thread, if it worked, it would be on every vehicle, unless there is a conspiracy that involves all automakers, oil companies, and pretty much everyone other than the producers of these "systems".
That being said, I'm always interested in someone trying something hairbrained with their junk. That's where great ideas (and great explosions
) come from...
Keep it up!!!
Like previously mentioned in this thread, if it worked, it would be on every vehicle, unless there is a conspiracy that involves all automakers, oil companies, and pretty much everyone other than the producers of these "systems".
That being said, I'm always interested in someone trying something hairbrained with their junk. That's where great ideas (and great explosions
) come from...Keep it up!!!
I just got done reading all 14-15 pages of this thread. Good lord guys!
SS STORM: Thanks for doing the build-up...I hope you do a post of what your final numbers are! If your tiered of hearing everyones opinions about whether or not this HAFC is worth while...Please PM me on your results. I don't think I will be doing this system on my cruiser...but I do want to know if there is any significant gains in your MPG.
SS STORM: Thanks for doing the build-up...I hope you do a post of what your final numbers are! If your tiered of hearing everyones opinions about whether or not this HAFC is worth while...Please PM me on your results. I don't think I will be doing this system on my cruiser...but I do want to know if there is any significant gains in your MPG.
Its been 2 months
I have been returning to this thread over the last 2 months and I am little disappointed but not surprised there are no credible updates or proof. Why is it that all we are seeing is incredible mileage gains from other vehicles.
Some other issues that seemed to be glossed over:
1- If this device were credible why is it that the guarantee is only for the parts?
If a vendor is "certifying" tuners than they are issuing a stamp of approval for an individual to operate/tune their product. If that person can't do so properly and/or f's up someones vehicle they should own up to it.
2- Also if the manufacturer is providing seminars and "certifying" tuners why would they seemingly allow such disparity in these tuners capabilities as clearly pointed out by Blake. It does not make sense whatsoever. NO manufacturer with a strong product would allow the ultimate performance of the product to be controlled so far downstream.
Also, for those who keep coming to Blake's defense- any reasonable person who is a part of this as a provider, tuner or marketer should expect substantial questions and or flak from board members. If I posted a product that goes against generally accepted mpg standards I would expect to be beaten down. The other way to look at it is that Blake has provided himself an opportunity to display a product of which he has a vested interest. He is displaying it on a board whose members would have a substantial interest in the product if proven. He may or may not benefit by direct sales to any of us but ultimately positive results further contributes to acceptance of the product. If I were in his shoes and I was taking this product seriously I would have my data together from the start. Instead of waiting 2 months for O2 sensors??? and no data and back and forth on what Hydrogen does or does not accomplish I would have approached this with a little more drive and smiled stupidly as I posted the affirming numbers for all the critics.
I have been returning to this thread over the last 2 months and I am little disappointed but not surprised there are no credible updates or proof. Why is it that all we are seeing is incredible mileage gains from other vehicles.
Some other issues that seemed to be glossed over:
1- If this device were credible why is it that the guarantee is only for the parts?
If a vendor is "certifying" tuners than they are issuing a stamp of approval for an individual to operate/tune their product. If that person can't do so properly and/or f's up someones vehicle they should own up to it.
2- Also if the manufacturer is providing seminars and "certifying" tuners why would they seemingly allow such disparity in these tuners capabilities as clearly pointed out by Blake. It does not make sense whatsoever. NO manufacturer with a strong product would allow the ultimate performance of the product to be controlled so far downstream.
Also, for those who keep coming to Blake's defense- any reasonable person who is a part of this as a provider, tuner or marketer should expect substantial questions and or flak from board members. If I posted a product that goes against generally accepted mpg standards I would expect to be beaten down. The other way to look at it is that Blake has provided himself an opportunity to display a product of which he has a vested interest. He is displaying it on a board whose members would have a substantial interest in the product if proven. He may or may not benefit by direct sales to any of us but ultimately positive results further contributes to acceptance of the product. If I were in his shoes and I was taking this product seriously I would have my data together from the start. Instead of waiting 2 months for O2 sensors??? and no data and back and forth on what Hydrogen does or does not accomplish I would have approached this with a little more drive and smiled stupidly as I posted the affirming numbers for all the critics.
Then why don't you go out and prove it one way or another with all your wonderful testing?
I personally found that the support from Dutchman for these kits was pretty bad. Not because they would not answer, but because their tuning information changes so often... And every vehicle seems to have a quirk that takes a science experiment to figure out...
Honestly, if my Dad did not buy one I would be as skeptical as all of you. Fact is he got one, I installed it (took a long time). And after a lot of hair pulling, he has increased his gas mileage more than I could have imagined.
Having said all that, I'm waiting to see long term what this unit does b4 I'd consider putting one on my truck.
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ETD66SS,
Still curious about this:
IH8MUD™ Forums - View Single Post - Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)
Any thoughts?
Curtis
Still curious about this:
IH8MUD™ Forums - View Single Post - Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)
Any thoughts?
Curtis
My Own Mileage Test
All this talk about gas mileage got me wondering about my own mileage. I log all my mileage at every fill-up and over the past six months it averages 12.195 miles per gallon. Here are the details of the truck:
1995 Land Cruiser
199700 Miles
Arb W/ 10K winch
Storage box
285x75x16 BFG All Terrain - stock gears
SAE 30 oil (less 1000 miles on it)
So I did the "orange test" by driving my truck to a gas station right off the interstate and topping it off. Then I drove to the Crestview exit and turned around. My round trip was 58.6 miles. I did two tests. These are my results:
TEST I
Drove 58.6 Miles @ 55mph. 2000RPM. Overdive-on, PWR-off, A/C-off, windows-up, cruise-on, with one 190 pound occupant. Under these conditions I used 3.104 gallons for 18.8788mpg.
Test II
Drove 58.6 Miles @70mph. 2450RPM. A/C-ON; everything else the same. This time the truck downshifted four times during the trip. On this test I used 4.644 gallons for 12.6184mpg.
My conclusion? If you want better mileage, keep your two to three thousand dollars and go easy on the skinny pedal. Since my observed fuel economy over the past six months is pretty much identical to what I have observed over the past couple of years, I am amazed that my truck actually logged 18.8 mpg. Although at 55 on the interstate in 90 degree heat with the windows up was a miserable experience, it clearly demonstrates that better fuel economy IS possible. When I first started reading this thread I thought the initial mileage recorded by SS was wrong. If my truck, which is a beat up POS which we call "the turd" can do it, any cruiser can.
All this talk about gas mileage got me wondering about my own mileage. I log all my mileage at every fill-up and over the past six months it averages 12.195 miles per gallon. Here are the details of the truck:
1995 Land Cruiser
199700 Miles
Arb W/ 10K winch
Storage box
285x75x16 BFG All Terrain - stock gears
SAE 30 oil (less 1000 miles on it)
So I did the "orange test" by driving my truck to a gas station right off the interstate and topping it off. Then I drove to the Crestview exit and turned around. My round trip was 58.6 miles. I did two tests. These are my results:
TEST I
Drove 58.6 Miles @ 55mph. 2000RPM. Overdive-on, PWR-off, A/C-off, windows-up, cruise-on, with one 190 pound occupant. Under these conditions I used 3.104 gallons for 18.8788mpg.
Test II
Drove 58.6 Miles @70mph. 2450RPM. A/C-ON; everything else the same. This time the truck downshifted four times during the trip. On this test I used 4.644 gallons for 12.6184mpg.
My conclusion? If you want better mileage, keep your two to three thousand dollars and go easy on the skinny pedal. Since my observed fuel economy over the past six months is pretty much identical to what I have observed over the past couple of years, I am amazed that my truck actually logged 18.8 mpg. Although at 55 on the interstate in 90 degree heat with the windows up was a miserable experience, it clearly demonstrates that better fuel economy IS possible. When I first started reading this thread I thought the initial mileage recorded by SS was wrong. If my truck, which is a beat up POS which we call "the turd" can do it, any cruiser can.
Exactly my point. I don't have a material investment in this other than lost time at this point. Let me rephrase it again- If you have already made the investment to take the course, get certified, install a bunch of units, and post on a board and you have something to potentially gain it only makes sense to present it in the best scenario possible. I like many others here would be signing on board if there were verifiable results. According to your statement the blessed technology has an easy out, because it evidently depends on the application and the ability of the installer/tuner... why is it then that most cars in a certain class rarely differ in mpg by more than a few.
I didn't pay for any training, just installing this as the end user. And I am not painting any picture in any light. Just sharing what I went through to install one of these kits, and the results I'm seeing. But maybe you're talking about the OP.
I would NOT want to be a mechanic installing these kits, as it was a 2-3 month long debacle trying to setup this one. Mainly due to the fact I did not pay for trianing. Dutchman will not give you support for tuning unless you pay for training. I had to find ppl who were trained that wanted to help me free of charge.
Honestly, as I have previously said. Some of you will not be satisfied until a big automaker tells you it works, or you try it yourself. In the mean time, why argue about it if you intend to not do anythng about it? You're not really gaining anything by being a debunker of a fuel cell kit unless you get one and prove to the world why it does not work...
CFJ, I do not I want to run it without the fuel cell on and the Optimizer leaning out the mixture... Maybe if I had an engine I didn't care about blowing up, I'd try it.
my posts were directed at the original post but more generally anyone that has a vested interest in a product that is going to put it on a thread. I wasn't trying to single you out nor hack at anyones credibility. I would like this to work then I could fill up and drive 1100+ miles with my subtank
Speaking of engines and blowing them up...
Did you ever replace the spark plugs on your dad's rig?
- Thread starter
- #432
FINALLY I GOT IT TO WORK!!!
I got my wiring to go right. I have re wired my system about 6 times and nothing has worked, I just figured out I had a bad ground.
So Ill tie up loose ends and get you guys a new mileage number asap.
heres one of my other installs YouTube - H.A.F.C Dodge Dakota 2001
2001 dodge dakota.
Thanks for all the support
Sorry for being gone I was on vacation than my girlfriend broke her arm on a mountain bike ride and my life has been insane (my mom just started chemo) So! any questions or needs for help please set them up in an orderly manor like seperate them from the body of your post so I can find them. I will get to all that I can. again I am very sorry for my disappearance
I got my wiring to go right. I have re wired my system about 6 times and nothing has worked, I just figured out I had a bad ground.
So Ill tie up loose ends and get you guys a new mileage number asap.
heres one of my other installs YouTube - H.A.F.C Dodge Dakota 2001
2001 dodge dakota.
Thanks for all the support
Sorry for being gone I was on vacation than my girlfriend broke her arm on a mountain bike ride and my life has been insane (my mom just started chemo) So! any questions or needs for help please set them up in an orderly manor like seperate them from the body of your post so I can find them. I will get to all that I can. again I am very sorry for my disappearance
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I would like to add that following the "orange Test" that I performed on my truck, I have been trying to see if using that information gained form that test, can I increase the mileage I observe during normal driving by modifying my driving habits. Right now I am on track to get about 16mpg by just going easy on the gas pedal. The only draw back? Make sure you leave early to get where your going on time.
Welcome back Blake.
Would you mind taking a picture of this setup on your rig, or even another youtube of it? Now that you have the wiring figured out, what are your mileage numbers?
Would you mind taking a picture of this setup on your rig, or even another youtube of it? Now that you have the wiring figured out, what are your mileage numbers?
- Thread starter
- #435
Hey I have to make a mileage run yet so Ill get those numbers up asap-
the wiring looks the same only that the Piggy back ECU wiring changed Ill get you some good overall pics of it
Blake,
The reason I did what you call the "Orange Test" was because I wanted to "de-bunk" the test and your results as total BS. As you can see, my numbers were hard to believe too, and would have probably matched yours is I had corrected for my oversized tires and driven 55mph be GPS instead of my speedometer which is 5mph over.
Although I am sure lots of folks want to know what kind of returns your mods will give you in another controlled "Orange Test," I would like for you to keep mileage logs by the tank. The best mileage I got with my test was about 3mpg better than I can get in real world driving, so I am interested to see what kind of mileage you get in traffic.
I appreciate your input, and thank you for starting this fascinating thread.
The reason I did what you call the "Orange Test" was because I wanted to "de-bunk" the test and your results as total BS. As you can see, my numbers were hard to believe too, and would have probably matched yours is I had corrected for my oversized tires and driven 55mph be GPS instead of my speedometer which is 5mph over.
Although I am sure lots of folks want to know what kind of returns your mods will give you in another controlled "Orange Test," I would like for you to keep mileage logs by the tank. The best mileage I got with my test was about 3mpg better than I can get in real world driving, so I am interested to see what kind of mileage you get in traffic.
I appreciate your input, and thank you for starting this fascinating thread.
You will never get close to 25 mpg regardless of how slow you drive or which tires you use. That is provided of course that Storm can put those numbers up with his device.
- Thread starter
- #438
Ok I know its off topoic but I just got a 1965 Shelby cobra from a customer the guy wants a HAFC installed on and OH MY! this car is amazing it pulls so hard!!! ok so i'm done LOL ill be doing a mileage test thursday night if everything goes to plan.
lx450landcruiser
Moderator
original? if so that guy needs a swift kick to the nuts
Doubtful. Authentic 65 Shelby Cobras sell upwards of $600,000. Authentic 65 Shelby Mustangs sell upwards of $200,000. He said it was a Cobra and I don't think anyone with one of those cares 1 iota about fuel mileage. Hell, they can't even burn pump fuel anyway and NOBODY with an authentic Cobra is daily driving the thing.
-B-
