My bad, I missed the re-gearing. The overgearing will make the mileage look better than actual - won't the larger tires negate this?
Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter SS_Storm
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
My bad, I missed the re-gearing. The overgearing will make the mileage look better than actual - won't the larger tires negate this?
I've got a GPS unit and I am close by. That is an accurate way to track milage IMHO. I also saw a little piece on Yahoo this morning briefly talking about how these kits don't work, and that they may void warranty and so on. I am willing to give it a chance no matter how skeptical I am because if it works, it works. PM me if you are interested, I would love to see your setup.
- Thread starter
- #143
Sure! anyone that wants to see it, I have kinda breezed over because I wanted to get it all tuned before people came to check it out. I don't care anymore hahaha PM me for anyone who wants to see.
So land tank- the tuning is not hit and miss, I am doing some testing for myself. I did one of these on a tacoma one time that when put into cruise control would start runnin like crap. turned out it would lean the mixture automatically when in cruise for better mileage. I am trying to see if the cruiser has this point because I do not feel good about hitting it. it is a far too lean situation and could damage the engine.
SO im just goin a little bit at a time.
So land tank- the tuning is not hit and miss, I am doing some testing for myself. I did one of these on a tacoma one time that when put into cruise control would start runnin like crap. turned out it would lean the mixture automatically when in cruise for better mileage. I am trying to see if the cruiser has this point because I do not feel good about hitting it. it is a far too lean situation and could damage the engine.
SO im just goin a little bit at a time.
A few months ago a buddy and I from my AET (automotive engineering technology) class tried playing with the hho idea for the heck of it to see if this would work. We built different set-up to see which would make greater hho gas. (They are really cheap to make). We ended up giving up on the project due to a few issues with the system.
First off, forcing the pcm into a lean state as most of these kits do is not the way to go. In order for your engine to get the best fuel economy is to have some sort of regulator/sensor that ties into the pcm letting it know how much hho gas is going into the combustion chamber just as it does for gasoline. What these systems are doing is just burning unmetered fuel (hho) causing a rich state, then your o2 sensor doesn't know what to do and it leans out your gasoline fuel. It can no way control the amount of hho gas being fed into the engine because that is fed into a vacuum line. What is the perfect air fuel mixture for gasoline? 14.7:1 and the pcm does this through sensors and the fuel injectors and it is always constantly enriching and leaning fuel to compensate. I believe doing an hho setup without sensors is like having the opposite of a vacuum leak. And worse, is leaning out your engine manually. What happens when temperatuew changes, or bad gasoline, you never know when you will hear pinging.
Secondly, I read here that the tundra leaned out with cruise control. Modern OBD2 vehicles are programmed to have what is called a lean cruise mode which is what happens when you drive 60mph on the highway (don't need to have it on cruise), you only need around 10hp at that speed to keep the car at a constant speed so some cars will just shut off the injectors on various cylinders. I will have to look it up but I believe some also do lean out the fuel to a point.
The magnets will do nothing and that has been proven. I can think of more things but these are just some of issues with hho and why we gave up the project.
I am not being skeptical, but I just want to point out that in order to take hho and really have a reputable kit you have to do a lot of measurements and calculations to get true results and that is engineering.
First off, forcing the pcm into a lean state as most of these kits do is not the way to go. In order for your engine to get the best fuel economy is to have some sort of regulator/sensor that ties into the pcm letting it know how much hho gas is going into the combustion chamber just as it does for gasoline. What these systems are doing is just burning unmetered fuel (hho) causing a rich state, then your o2 sensor doesn't know what to do and it leans out your gasoline fuel. It can no way control the amount of hho gas being fed into the engine because that is fed into a vacuum line. What is the perfect air fuel mixture for gasoline? 14.7:1 and the pcm does this through sensors and the fuel injectors and it is always constantly enriching and leaning fuel to compensate. I believe doing an hho setup without sensors is like having the opposite of a vacuum leak. And worse, is leaning out your engine manually. What happens when temperatuew changes, or bad gasoline, you never know when you will hear pinging.
Secondly, I read here that the tundra leaned out with cruise control. Modern OBD2 vehicles are programmed to have what is called a lean cruise mode which is what happens when you drive 60mph on the highway (don't need to have it on cruise), you only need around 10hp at that speed to keep the car at a constant speed so some cars will just shut off the injectors on various cylinders. I will have to look it up but I believe some also do lean out the fuel to a point.
The magnets will do nothing and that has been proven. I can think of more things but these are just some of issues with hho and why we gave up the project.
I am not being skeptical, but I just want to point out that in order to take hho and really have a reputable kit you have to do a lot of measurements and calculations to get true results and that is engineering.
Last edited:
I tracked down the Mythbusters where they were trying to run a car on hydrogen.
They couldn't get their internet system to work (though I did see a few flaws with it), but they actually got the rig to run on pure hydrogen (bottled).
The problem was, the second time they tried it, they had a nice backfire that would have caused some serious damage had the hood not been open.
What prevents this system from having the same issue, since you're just dumping the "water gas" into the air intake?
They couldn't get their internet system to work (though I did see a few flaws with it), but they actually got the rig to run on pure hydrogen (bottled).
The problem was, the second time they tried it, they had a nice backfire that would have caused some serious damage had the hood not been open.
What prevents this system from having the same issue, since you're just dumping the "water gas" into the air intake?
That would be another problem. As the water level in the hho gas goes low, there is a greater potential for an explosion as there is more gas than water in the holding tank. A backfire can easily be prevented into going into this type of setup by using a pcv valve or something similar, but regardless you still have the potential of an explosion.
Ali,
I've already agreed that it won't affect the delta increase.
The issue that I have is with posting MPG figures which he has done at least 3 times, the last one being 18.1 MPG. In reality, he is getting 18.1 of whatever distance his buddy's Honda travels in 1 "mile." You can also see the confusion in subsequent posts... some thinking his tyres cause an understatement of the MPG and who knows what else people are thinking.
Test results need to be accurate if you are posting information like this in a technical thread. Some will disagree with me and that's fine. AFAIC, he is getting 18.1 "units" per gallon and right now, nobody really knows what those "units" are. If the ~6% variance is accurate then he is getting 17 MPG highway using the "orange" method.
I hope he gets the 35 MPG that he set for the goal of this project. That would be an eye opener for certain.
-B-
Not sure I get your point? Are you saying that running 35's doesn't cause an understatement of the MPG?
i have watching the post with interest. my little brother did a home hydrogen job for his 540 bmw. no extra computer or anything. he ran it 2 months and several tanks of gas and saw no increased mpg. nothing like this but his didn't work. n=1 for whats its worth
This reminds me of a episode on King of Queens the water filter sales pitch and the license to sell water filters. lol There is a sucker born evey minute.
- Thread starter
- #151
Thanks for the input guys! hopefully I don't blow up my engine. 
I'm wondering if that thing is anything like the Methane/Alcohol/Water Injector that I just installed in my 80.
Kalawang
Kalawang
I didn't make the point very well. You are correct that larger tyres will understate the MPG. You mentioned that you missed that the OP had also regeared which throws off the odo/speedo in the other direction. My poorly made point was that all of these variables (mentioned and unmentioned) will cause confusion unless he factors those things in when he posts his MPG numbers.
In summary, there is already enough confusion in this thread and the point that I was trying to make was that bad MPG data causes more confusion.
-B-
I'm with you on that. As much as people know that this system doesn't work, gas prices have many wanting to believe. Kind of reminds me of the scene at the end of Man on the Moon where Andy Kaufman goes to meet the faith healer.
I'll go on the record here and say that I've been interested in the HHO stuff for a while and think if it is properly designed can add some benefits. As posted earlier the biggest hurdle is controlled delivery of the gas. Combusting un-metered fuel CAN NOT BE TUNED, period! From what I've read here this system is a joke and I'd never consider putting it on anything I owned. That's not to say it's not the best out there but in my eyes it falls well short of what I'd consider the minimum requirement to be considered an operational system.
I did however stumble upon a automotive platform that has a sub system that might easily be adapted for metering HHO throughout the operating range of the engine which would lend itself to proper tuning, and it's NOT a Land Cruiser.
I did however stumble upon a automotive platform that has a sub system that might easily be adapted for metering HHO throughout the operating range of the engine which would lend itself to proper tuning, and it's NOT a Land Cruiser.
- Thread starter
- #156
Newsflash sunday punch this is a build thread im not asking if you think it works.
Just a data point....
With cruise control on, MY 80 does not lean out. The wideband indicates the same AFR.
With cruise control on, MY 80 does not lean out. The wideband indicates the same AFR.
No need to get your panties in a bunch. The results will speak for themselves.
- Thread starter
- #159
Thanks 97!
Thanks for the input guys! hopefully I don't blow up my engine.
Soo.....nothing in the system to control how far back the hydrogen can burn?
Having seen (on mythbusters) what just a little hydrogen can do, I wouldn't want a tank full sitting in my engine bay (or for that matter anywhere in my rig) without some serious safety features.
