The canister of water that the electrolysis unit bubbles into acting as a buffer? The tube goes from the bubbler to the intake?
Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)
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The canister of water that the electrolysis unit bubbles into acting as a buffer? The tube goes from the bubbler to the intake?
Check this guys videos out he has a pretty good way to measure how much hho your getting too.
YouTube - Smack Install part 1!!!!!!
His site:
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
YouTube - Smack Install part 1!!!!!!
His site:
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
Don't forget you're only getting to use a bout a third or less of that potential energy in the gas, now if the HHO allows you to get at more of that energy in the gas then I can see it working.
Is there any shadytree way to tell if your running to lean?
You can examine the spark plugs and tell if the engine is running lean. There are hundreds of pictures on the internet but let me know if you want me to find and post one.
The other way is by pulling a plug and looking through the hole in the top of your piston and observing the con rod below it. That's a pretty good indication you've been running too lean for a week or two.
-B-
EDT66SS,
Any chance of you getting a pic or two of the spark plugs? It'd go a long way towards answering questions.
the bubbler acts like a water pipe in that it filters out the foam from the HHO. Usually they try and have a link between the cell and the bubbler so as the bubbler fills with foam and then settles out the extra fluid in the bubbler is drained back into the cell automatically. Other wise the bubbler will eventually fill and the engine will ingest some foam anyway.
I've also seen a barrier in the cell that once the foam builds to a point this barrier helps break it down and not let it build up any further.
Go to you tube and look for the zero fossil fuel channel. This guy has some very good experiments and everything you need to know and diagrams on how to build his projects. Pretty interesting even if you think it's BS.
not exactly. very nearly 100% the energy contained in the
gas is actualized, it's the IC engines inability to convert that
energy into "work" that is grossly inefficient....
This is how I have the fuel cell hooked up. We keep the water level about 1 inch below the bottom of the top PVC cap. The fitting on top of the reservoir in the pic that does not show a hose on it actually goes to the bottom of the air box. That 1" gap filled up with foam until it got sucked into the engine.
The thing is, the fuel cell is not supposed to generate foam. If it's generating foam, it means it's drawing more than 30 amps and there is too much caustic in the solution. Unfortunately my Dad did not take an amperage reading during the foam incident.
Here is the pic:
I'll see if I can get a pic of a spark plug.
I think the next step is to take out the fuel cell, take it apart & clean it. Then mix a new batch of caustic and start over. They say you're supposed to clean it after 3 weeks, it's been 3 weeks since he's been making HHO.
I still don't understand why ppl think the system makes HHO to burn it as a fuel? That's not the theory behind the system. The theory is to use the HHO to make the air/fuel mixture burn slower, therefore using less gas per stroke cycle... You're not creating hydrogen via electrolysis to burn it as a fuel. Of course it's not a perpetual motion machine, that's not what it's designed to do...
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my understanding is that the HHO has a higher flash point so it's the gasoline that actually ignites it. And once ignited it burns faster than the gasoline which helps burn the gasoline more effectively resulting in a higher efficency.
From what I've seen simply adding HHO to the air stream will help fuel economy but because this throws off the O2 sensor readings which results in richening the mixture you need to alter those signals to get the most benefit.
And that diagram doesn't make any sense to me. I was expecting the plates to be in the water bath.
From what I've seen simply adding HHO to the air stream will help fuel economy but because this throws off the O2 sensor readings which results in richening the mixture you need to alter those signals to get the most benefit.
And that diagram doesn't make any sense to me. I was expecting the plates to be in the water bath.
fjfar80
GOLD Star
I have a few questions in regards to the actual testing of this system - what were/are the testing parameters for the system - vehicles, mileage, conditions, variables, etc. As with any system - especially one that is being used on a vehicle's engine - I would imagine some substantial longterm data supporting the system. If possible, could you post that? I would like to see the vehicles it was tested on prior to commercial sale - the miles tested, testing results, associated maintenance costs, etc. Additionally, I am assuming that this voids all new vehicle warranties - is that a correct assumption? Last - has this device been DOT approved - since we are dealing with a "fuel cell" would it have to be DOT approved? Thanks in advance for your time.
I made that diagram in a 3D modeling software. I did not have the internal dimensions for the fuel cell. What you don't see in that pic is in between the plates are delrin spacers. The center upside down T shape is the grounding plate, the series of plates separated by the spacers is what you apply the current tom one #10-32 stud each side. It is a double fuel cell if you jumper a wire across the studs, single if you only use one.
The electrolyte is gravity fed into the bottom ports, when the fuel cell is turned on, the solenoid opens allowing flow into the bottom ports, and HHO gas comes out the top and fills the upper part of the reservoir, where the air cleaner cab suck it out.
Sorry, I don't have a cross section of the fuel cell, I only modeled what it looks like from the outside. When I take it apart to clean it, I'll take pictures.
Storms comments were confusing me too, as when he started this thread I was just starting to install my unit.
You can listen to the teleconferences here, it's where I get most of my info on this system.
Teleconference
Here is a link the the installation manual, if you look on page 29 of the pdf, you can see the test they give to check HHO production, I'll have to try that...
Manual
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seems somewhat strange to me that major auto makers
would rather hemorrhage hundreds of millions of dollars
in sales rather than install this technology on there cars.
any one car maker would dominate the world market and
make billions of dollars if they could increase the fuel
efficiency of their product line by 50% -100%....
As far as I know it's not DOT approved.
The sellers claim that this will not effect your warrantee, however they recommend (at least from what I've read on one site) removing everything and going back to a factory configuration before taking it into the dealership for warrantee service. They also recommend setting it up in such a way that when you go back to stock config, there's no evidence that the HHO system was installed.
This leads me to believe that this will void your warrantee. Of course every dealership is a bit different, for example I know people who have a 3" lift and wheel hard (breaking stuff) that's been fixed under warrantee, while another dealership will tell you that any lift will void the warrantee.
Go into your local dealership and ask, but I'm willing to bet what they're going to say....
You: "Yes, I'm highly modifying my engine by leaning it out a huge amount, modifying a whole bunch of signals that the ECU receives, and dumping an unknown quantity of hydrogen into the intake. If I blow up my engine, is this covered by warrantee?"
Dealership:
From my research there are VERY conflicting claims on what the hydrogen does.
I've read everything from "your engine doesn't even burn it" to "it's the special sauce that makes it all work".
Here's what I know about it:
Hydrogen ignights at a higher temp than gas, which (if you had enough hydrogen) might lead to some sort of two stage combustion, which would fit with the claims of "extending the burn time".
Hydrogen burns faster and hotter than gasoline, which conflicts with the "slows the burn down" and claims I've seen of "making your engine run cooler." Now, you are dumping some water vapor down the engine, so those claims may come from that...
All that being said, I don't believe there's enough hydrogen being produced (even at max capacity) to make a large difference. Additionally since it's completely unmetered, there's no way of evenly distributing the hydrogen over all 6 cylinders.
As for the first, I believe that the cells produce so little hydrogen due to the inherent risks of it. First, if you produced too much, you start intoducing problems like backfires and such (look at the Mythbusters video clip on YouTube when they dumped hydrogen into a car). Secondly, since hydrogen burns much hotter than gas, you run the risk of physically damaging the engine very rapidly (think of melting aluminum hot).
As for the second, it's expensive and requires fairly extensive modifications to meter and evenly distribute the hydrogen. Plus there's no way of covering it up by removing it, unlike the setup now. Look at the propane kits that folks are using, and you can see an example of a working and proven setup. But even with that setup there are risks and dangers....the difference is the claims being made and the acknowledgement of the risks. It's all up front--unlike the HAFC stuff, which has some silly claims out there (100+ MPG from a 20 MPG vehicle), TONS of conflicting information, and claims zero risk.
As far as I know it's not DOT approved.
The sellers claim that this will not effect your warrantee, however they recommend (at least from what I've read on one site) removing everything and going back to a factory configuration before taking it into the dealership for warrantee service. They also recommend setting it up in such a way that when you go back to stock config, there's no evidence that the HHO system was installed.
This leads me to believe that this will void your warrantee. Of course every dealership is a bit different, for example I know people who have a 3" lift and wheel hard (breaking stuff) that's been fixed under warrantee, while another dealership will tell you that any lift will void the warrantee.
Go into your local dealership and ask, but I'm willing to bet what they're going to say....
You: "Yes, I'm highly modifying my engine by leaning it out a huge amount, modifying a whole bunch of signals that the ECU receives, and dumping an unknown quantity of hydrogen into the intake. If I blow up my engine, is this covered by warrantee?"
Dealership:
From my research there are VERY conflicting claims on what the hydrogen does.
I've read everything from "your engine doesn't even burn it" to "it's the special sauce that makes it all work".
Here's what I know about it:
Hydrogen ignights at a higher temp than gas, which (if you had enough hydrogen) might lead to some sort of two stage combustion, which would fit with the claims of "extending the burn time".
Hydrogen burns faster and hotter than gasoline, which conflicts with the "slows the burn down" and claims I've seen of "making your engine run cooler." Now, you are dumping some water vapor down the engine, so those claims may come from that...
All that being said, I don't believe there's enough hydrogen being produced (even at max capacity) to make a large difference. Additionally since it's completely unmetered, there's no way of evenly distributing the hydrogen over all 6 cylinders.
As for the first, I believe that the cells produce so little hydrogen due to the inherent risks of it. First, if you produced too much, you start intoducing problems like backfires and such (look at the Mythbusters video clip on YouTube when they dumped hydrogen into a car). Secondly, since hydrogen burns much hotter than gas, you run the risk of physically damaging the engine very rapidly (think of melting aluminum hot).
As for the second, it's expensive and requires fairly extensive modifications to meter and evenly distribute the hydrogen. Plus there's no way of covering it up by removing it, unlike the setup now. Look at the propane kits that folks are using, and you can see an example of a working and proven setup. But even with that setup there are risks and dangers....the difference is the claims being made and the acknowledgement of the risks. It's all up front--unlike the HAFC stuff, which has some silly claims out there (100+ MPG from a 20 MPG vehicle), TONS of conflicting information, and claims zero risk.
If ppl are afraid to do it, oh well, don't do it?
My dad's truck is 9 years old, has 120,000 miles. I don't think he'd be doing it on a brand new vehicle...
If I get it working on his truck somewhat reliably, and his engine doesn't blow up after 1 year, I'm not going to buy a kit for my truck, I'll just make one. Excluding the Optimizer circuit board, everything else is very easy to make yourself.
Don't you think they would do it if they could get it to work? On a micro level it would only take one working install on a known/trusted members Cruiser here to sell dozens of these things.
I don't think it's that simple. It's a matter of trust.
If I get my Dad's working, most of you still won't believe me.
But if an automaker or dealership is incorporating them with warranties & all, only then would they be widespread...
People want to be told what to do, told what works, etc. They generally are afraid to find out for themselves.
