i was being facetious....
(although i would love to hear an explanation from anyone who
believes this stuff works as to why car makers would prefer to
lose money than use this ""technology")
Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)
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i was being facetious....
(although i would love to hear an explanation from anyone who
believes this stuff works as to why car makers would prefer to
lose money than use this ""technology")
The more cynical members here might point out how much $$$ Toyota is making off replacement parts and such on their hybrids.
Have seen several comparisons of the Hummer (H1) and Prius. Prius is about 3 times as expensive to run (after you figure in the gas) due to the cost of replacement parts.
There are known technologies that companies are ignoring. Diesel is one of them. But personally I don't believe that this (HHO/HAFC) is one of them.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Let me know when you have some.
Uhm, he went from 16 mpg to 28...
The best we can do is 30 mpg. Not sure that is extraordinary, but it's better than 16.
This kit does not claim 100 mpg for this vehicle. That is the PICC, not the HAFC that claims that...
That is an extraordinary claim - but a statement on an internet board by a previously unknown member with little detail is far from extraordinary evidence. I'd start becoming interested if you could show the records and testing done pre-install. Then a vehicle inspection and confirmation of the 28-30 MPG post-install by well known & trusted person(s) or organizations. A dyno run would be interesting also.
so a cynical person would assume GM decided to lose 37 billion
dollars last year because toyota makes a lot on replacement
hybrid parts....
seems that makes my point, more expensive to run yet toyota can't make the prius fast enough
to keep up with demand and GM is s***-canning the hummer because they can't sell them...
they're ignoring diesel? i can buy diesels from Ford, GM, Chrysler, VW, Mercedes, and as demand increases so will the number of diesel offerings. next year toyota, audi....
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What parts? Linky?
I don't believe that.
I only recall one bogus article about that that was floating around for a while. Got a link?
The reason for that is pretty simple: It's too hard to meet US emissions requirements. So the rest of the world gets them, and we don't.
I know you stay out of chat, but we've really hashed a lot of this out over there; I'll find ya a couple good threads on hybrid/diesel/hybrid-vs-diesel if you're interested.
Curtis
Hybrids great on gasoline savings but not expense, study finds
Hybrids may be tops when it comes to saving gasoline, but they're far from the best choice for budget-conscious car buyers, a new study says.
The four-door hatchback Chevy Aveo from General Motors Corp. leads the ranking of the best new-car values in terms of "total ownership cost" as calculated by automotive data firm Edmunds.com, based on $5-a-gallon gas. The highest-ranked hybrid was the Honda Civic at No. 10. The Toyota Prius hybrid -- No. 1 in the government's fuel economy rankings -- came in 26th.
Hybrids, which are powered by both an electric motor and a gasoline engine, typically get better gas mileage than their non-hybrid counterparts but carry higher price tags.
A 2008 Aveo hatchback with manual transmission lists for $10,235 and is rated by the Environmental Protection Agency at 27 miles per gallon in combined city-highway driving. The Prius, by contrast, has a combined fuel economy of 46 mpg and a suggested retail price of $21,500 -- and typically sells for thousands of dollars above that because of high demand.
The study's purpose "isn't to discourage people from buying hybrids," said Jesse Toprak, head of industry analysis for Santa Monica-based Edmunds.com. However, "consumers ought to consider regular-engine small cars if their goal is just to save money."
Hybrids may be tops when it comes to saving gasoline, but they're far from the best choice for budget-conscious car buyers, a new study says.
The four-door hatchback Chevy Aveo from General Motors Corp. leads the ranking of the best new-car values in terms of "total ownership cost" as calculated by automotive data firm Edmunds.com, based on $5-a-gallon gas. The highest-ranked hybrid was the Honda Civic at No. 10. The Toyota Prius hybrid -- No. 1 in the government's fuel economy rankings -- came in 26th.
Hybrids, which are powered by both an electric motor and a gasoline engine, typically get better gas mileage than their non-hybrid counterparts but carry higher price tags.
A 2008 Aveo hatchback with manual transmission lists for $10,235 and is rated by the Environmental Protection Agency at 27 miles per gallon in combined city-highway driving. The Prius, by contrast, has a combined fuel economy of 46 mpg and a suggested retail price of $21,500 -- and typically sells for thousands of dollars above that because of high demand.
The study's purpose "isn't to discourage people from buying hybrids," said Jesse Toprak, head of industry analysis for Santa Monica-based Edmunds.com. However, "consumers ought to consider regular-engine small cars if their goal is just to save money."
one more making my point. if this tech worked any car
company could take their current lineup of cars and cash
in on the high demand for fuel effeciant cars and would
be able to charge a premium for these cars as well. so
why don't they...
That is a good question.
I would like to hear an answer from an automotive engineer familiar with the technology. You would think that if it worked they could engineer a super efficient version.
ok how about this one, **** ********. he's associate dean of
the college of technology and innovation at ASU. according to
him the answer to the question is "because it's nonsense"...
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Well, sorry to say I'm not here to satisfy you.
I searched the internet for someone installing one, and found this board. I don't own a cruiser... I'm just sharing my HAFC experience. If you don't want to read about it because you don't trust someone on a message board, I really don't care. I'm not an HAFC salesperson, I'm not trying to get you to believe anything. It's not up to me to do all kinds of extravagant testing to satisfy you. I'm sure if you listened in on the Dutchman LLC mechanics hotlines they have twice a week, even call in and ask questions, they would be able to give you answers, even point you to independent studies & testing. I'm just a Mechanical Engineer installing one of these because my Dad wanted to try it, nothing more.
Believe me, I am a skeptical person too, have to see something to believe it. Well, my father filled up last week, went 108 miles, then filled up again and the tank only took 4 gallons of gas. That's all the proof he needs to be honest.
Here are some pics of the spark plugs ppl requested, as well as some of the disassembled fuel cell. I just got done cleaning it. It's pretty black for only 3 weeks of operation...
That is a flippant answer to me. I would like to hear *********** expand on why he thinks it is nonsense.
I have seen the gas make a torch and I have seen many, many positive reports of HHO technology in cars. I have also seen that there are many complaints regarding the tuning process and uncertainty regarding risk of damage to the engine.
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(480) ***-**** or ******** "at" asu.edu
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I sent the email. We'll see if he cares to respond.
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Give Dale a couple of beers and he'll explain just about anything to you. Ask him about how he tested the thigh-master for Suzanne Summers....funny story!
***This concludes the hijacking of this thread***
***This concludes the hijacking of this thread***
That's fine. But it's the same story everywhere you look on this stuff. Lot's of "grass roots" (indistinguishable from astroturf) and company claims of phenomenal mileage improvements. But nobody willing or able to stand up and have the performance of the system verified by any reputable & independent 3rd party.
Excuse me if I'm not convinced - but good luck to you & your pistons.
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I would be fine with that if he wouldn't mind coming to South Texas. I'm not spending the gas to drive there.
Ok, well it was definitely the dirty fuel cell plates that was causing the amp draw problem.
Here is the amp reading after cleaning the fuel cell, it shows 34 amps, but we added a bit of distilled water and got it down to 30.4 amps.
I did a water bottle test. It took 75 sec for the fuel cell to make 2L of HHO. So 1.6L/min.
I'll have my dad do another mpg test.
Here is the amp reading after cleaning the fuel cell, it shows 34 amps, but we added a bit of distilled water and got it down to 30.4 amps.
I did a water bottle test. It took 75 sec for the fuel cell to make 2L of HHO. So 1.6L/min.
I'll have my dad do another mpg test.
