GX460 vs T4R

[tls3601]

Mall crawler and poser vehicle to pamper owners butts; GX wins hands down. However, for those more concerned about Off Road prowess in stock form like myself, then the 4Runner wins hands down. There is a reason why resale is insanely high. Function.

 

[Jetboy]

I've not compared body to frame suspension bushings but possible there are more or thicker on GX. The water repellant side glass is nice too in inclement weather.

KDSS was a must have for me too. But now a few years in and I'm finding how limiting it is in some scenarios - mainly limiting flex in the rear. I'm trying to sort out a way to modify it to change the leverage so it works more like the LC200 in the rear and the front I want to modify the sway bar and control arms so the mount on the LCA is closer to the bushings. I love the concept of KDSS, but the execution in the 150 is sort of a half measure compared to the LC200.

Bushings are universally identical. You don't have to look. Just cross reference part numbers. They're all the same. All GX suspension parts are the same as the 4runner except for shocks and springs. 4Runner TRD Pro is the only model of any 150 that has shocks and springs worth noting. They're the only ones that I wouldn't just throw away day 1. The downside is that they're OEM size, so I'd probably replace them too, but at least they're serious Fox suspension parts. The side glass is exactly the same other than the shape and tinting.

Crawl and MTS can be added to any 4runner as well, but it comes standard on a lot of them. I don't think you ever would - because you can simply buy the correct model and also get a locker. I like crawl - not because it's good at the last mile offroad, it's certainly not as good as a good driver, but because it's nice on very long rough trails for fatigue. Without a manual transmission having crawl is the next best thing.

I ran the GX460 air suspension modified for 2" more height on my 4runner for about a year. It was okay until one of the airbags popped. Height adjustment was nice. Flex was pretty good. But the highway ride was never very balanced. Fox shocks with KDSS matched springs from Dobinson offer nicer ride quality . I'm sure they would be great on a GX too if you ever need to replace the airbags. It's the shocks that hold you back more than the airbags though. You can add about 4" of travel just with longer shocks, more like 10" more travel with a long travel kit.

The 4th gen 4runner had everything identical to the GX470 including the same v8 and air suspension as the luxury model GX, but Toyota dropped it for the 5th gen when the new v6 had more power than the outgoing 4.7 v8.

I'm really excited for Rubithon this year to see a dozen or so GX's run the Rubicon. I hope we get a full spectrum of models.

 

[Jetboy]

I have driven them both readily. If the T4R is really the better vehicle, and to you, it is, that undermines the entire mindset and design philosophy of the Lexus brand. Toyota would not allow that to happen.

Yes, of course going off road you're going to take the c. $35k truck over the c. $65k one.

If you want a tin can interior, ugly looks, dinosaur 6 cylinder, terrible seats, crappy stereo and slightly douchey impression every time you pull up you get a T4R.

What exactly do you think the design philosophy of the Lexus brand is? They make luxury versions of Toyota models. Something like 40% of all Lexus sales are one model - the RX350. I have one. It's a great car. It's a Highlander with a nice interior and different sheet metal. It's $61k optioned with the lux package compared to $35k for a base model Highlander. But make no mistake - it's the same car. Is a Land Cruiser somehow a lesser vehicle than an LX570? In your mind I'm sure it is.

You keep going back to price. I've shown you that a Prado 150 is the same or cheaper than a 4Runner. Does that mean your Prado is a lesser quality vehicle? It's a bargain basement product right? A 150GX has a far cheaper interior than most 4runner models. I've driven a LC70 in Tanzania and Kenya. I can assure you the interior was as basic as it gets. Does that make it a low quality product? My own FJ40 has a tin can interior. It literally doesn't even have locking doors.

It seems as though the sales literature should include a copy of The Emperor's New Clothes.

 

[LX470Mack]

What exactly do you think the design philosophy of the Lexus brand is? They make luxury versions of Toyota models. Something like 40% of all Lexus sales are one model - the RX350. I have one. It's a great car. It's a Highlander with a nice interior and different sheet metal. Is a Land Cruiser somehow a lesser vehicle than an LX570? In your mind I'm sure it is. What about a RX350 vs Highlander/Kluger?

You keep going back to price. I've shown you that a Prado 150 is the same or cheaper than a 4Runner. Does that mean your Prado is a lesser quality vehicle? It's a bargain basement product right? A 150GX has a far cheaper interior than most 4runner models.

It seems as though the sales literature should include a copy of The Emperor's New Clothes.

I brought this point up pages and pages ago with how the Avalon is a far lesser car than an ES. The sum of Lexus isn't only an interior.

You just mentioned superchargers to equate for the power difference to the other guy. I now have you in my mind as the kind of person that Superchargers a V6 4runner or considers it a viable option.

The T4R is cheaper for reasons i've tried to convey time and time again.

GX460 has a far more modern engine, with more cylinders and better power. Who actually aspires to buy a V6 that was around in 2002? Obviously you.

The GX460 has a superior gearbox. The T4R still has an antiquated 5 speed. My friends 1999 E320 has a five speed....that's now just sad.

GX460 has rear AHC offering a nicer ride.

GX460 has a far more refined and luxurious interior with higher grade materials and more features.

GX460 has a certain prestige and cachet that is attached with the Lexus brand, the T4R has a stigma of being owned by the college frat bro.

 

[Jetboy]

You were wrong pages ago. You're still wrong. An Avalon is not far lesser car than an ES. You still can't figure out that you are the naked emperor.

The problem is that you reached a conclusion and went searching for facts to support it. The facts aren't there. So you're grasping for straws. It would be a lot easier if you'd just be honest and accept that you were wrong. Acting like a child doesn't reflect well on you.

 

[Itsky]

Gx460 has ~3% better power to weight ratio. It’s ~11% less efficient. The performance is about equal. All those “modern” improvements don’t provide much, if any performance gains.

 

[LX470Mack]

You were wrong pages ago. You're still wrong. An Avalon is not far lesser car than an ES. You still can't figure out that you are the naked emperor.

The problem is that you reached a conclusion and went searching for facts to support it. The facts aren't there. So you're grasping for straws. It would be a lot easier if you'd just be honest and accept that you were wrong. Acting like a child doesn't reflect well on you.

Don't you have an RX to go supercharge? You have such a single minded mission to defend the very good, (but not quite as good as a GX) T4R.

I went for a ride in my friends 03 Grande Prado today. Guess what's under the hood! The 4.0. I sat there thinking to myself, how can Toyota still serve this up new nearly 2 decades later. Then I remembered the T4R is a budget offering.

 

[LX470Mack]

Gx460 has ~3% better power to weight ratio. It’s ~11% less efficient. The performance is about equal. All those “modern” improvements don’t provide much, if any performance gains.

Yes, but it has significantly more NM of torque, is more refined, not to mention the fact it's an 8 cylinder and isn't going to be working as hard. There is no replacement for displacement.

Imagine what our little friend above could do to it with one of his fancy little superchargers.

 

[Jetboy]

Don't you have an RX to go supercharge? You have such a single minded mission to defend the very good, (but not quite as good as a GX) T4R.

I went for a ride in my friends 03 Grande Prado today. Guess what's under the hood! The 4.0. I sat there thinking to myself, how can Toyota still serve this up new nearly 2 decades later. Then I remembered the T4R is a budget offering.

More with the childish name calling. Is that really the best you can do?

I'm guessing you probably don't know that the 4.0L was significantly updated in 2010 do you?

You probably don't even know that the current 4.0L doesn't even share the same engine block as the 03. In fact they don't share engine blocks, cranks, rods, pistons, heads, cams, or - as far as I can tell the only shared parts are the crank shaft bearings. They simply happen to share displacement and the same naming convention. You simply don't know about toyota products. Hopefully you're learning at least a little bit here so you can be more informed going forward. If you do - then this forum is a success. Informing the misinformed.

The GR design v6 is still the same base GR engine in more than half of all Lexus sales? And the GR series is still sold in the LC200, LC70, and LC150. But it's not worthy of the "land cruiser" name right? Except where it is...

 

[LX470Mack]

More with the childish name calling. Is that really the best you can do?

I'm guessing you probably don't know that the 4.0L was significantly updated in 2010 do you?

You probably don't even know that the current 4.0L doesn't even share the same engine block as the 03. In fact they don't share engine blocks, cranks, rods, pistons, heads, cams, or - as far as I can tell the only shared parts are the crank shaft bearings. They simply happen to share displacement and the same naming convention. You simply don't know about toyota products. Hopefully you're learning at least a little bit here so you can be more informed going forward. If you do - then this forum is a success. Informing the misinformed.

The GR design v6 is still the same base GR engine in more than half of all Lexus sales? And the GR series is still sold in the LC200, LC70, and LC150. But it's not worthy of the "land cruiser" name right? Except where it is...

Again with the justification. It was the same deal with the 1UZ-FE and the 2UZ-FE. Both were continuously tweaked throughout their ancient lives with the addition of new rods, pistons, vvt-i etc etc... they were still dinosaurs at the end.

It's sold in dirt poor third world markets in the 200 as a way of lowering cost or places with silly emissions standards. You bought an antique boat anchor, along with the tranny coupled to it.

 

[Jetboy]

Again with the justification. It was the same deal with the 1UZ-FE and the 2UZ-FE. Both were continuously tweaked throughout their ancient lives with the addition of new rods, pistons, vvt-i etc etc... they were still dinosaurs at the end.

It's sold in dirt poor third world markets in the 200 as a way of lowering cost or places with silly emissions standards. You bought an antique boat anchor, along with the tranny coupled to it.

Dirt poor like Australia? You're country is dirt poor to us... It would be the 3rd poorest state in the USA.

 

[LX470Mack]

Dirt poor like Australia? You're country is dirt poor to us...

It isn't sold here anymore for the umpteenth time. I'm not going to steer the ship to an US vs AU argument with you. You should show a little respect to the only country that has stood by the US in every single major war or conflict since WW2.

This isn't an Oz vs US argument. They are both amazing countries. This is an argument that the T4R is an ageing dinosaur and a budget one at that in comparison to the GX460.

 

[Jetboy]

It isn't sold here anymore for the umpteenth time. I'm not going to steer the ship to an US vs AU argument with you. You should show a little respect to the only country that has stood by the US in every single war or conflict since WW2.

This isn't an Oz vs US argument. They are both amazing countries. This is an argument that the T4R is an ageing dinosaur and a budget one at that in comparison to the GX460.

Thin skin? I'm just providing a mirror. You look down on markets with less income, but get offended when someone does the same to you.

Your logic is that lower income markets = lower quality products. The only logical conclusion is that your market is lower income than ours so we have better options. Or your reasoning is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

 

[LX470Mack]

Thin skin? I'm just providing a mirror. You look down on markets with less income, but get offended when someone does the same to you.

Your logic is that lower income markets = lower quality products. The only logical conclusion is that your market is lower income than ours so we have better options. Or your reasoning is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

I don't look down on them at all. I simply stated that is why the 4.0 is in the 200 series in those countries, because they don't have the wealth and GDP of places like the US or Oz. Or.....due to Emissions regulations. Where did I look down on them?

 

[Jetboy]

I don't look down on them at all. I simply stated that is why the 4.0 is in the 200 series in those countries, because they don't have the wealth and GDP of places like the US or Oz. Or.....due to Emissions regulations. Where did I look down on them?

And I say that's why you only get the 1GD. So... You said "dirt poor third world markets" I said to the USA, Australia is a dirt poor third world market.

 

[LX470Mack]

And I say that's why you only get the 1GD. So...

You spew so much bollocks. Apparently we're poor too, in your eyes, which is hilarious.

We get the 1GD because the 4.0 is an old dog and nobody here would buy it. It sold so badly they had to scrap it.

Care to explain why we get 3 engine variants on the 200 series platform.... it's because the 200 is a volume seller in Australia and a very minor seller in the US.

 

[Jetboy]

You spew so much bollocks. Apparently we're poor too, in your eyes, which is hilarious.

We get the 1GD because the 4.0 is an old dog and Australians would not tolerate buying it.

Care to explain why we get 3 engine variants on the 200 series platform to your 1 then.....

It's funny how you struggle being on the other end isn't it? We get the most powerful engine in the 200 series as the only option because no one would buy a lower powered engine. And it's generally considered on the low end of the power spectrum even with the biggest engine offered. I don't think any other full size SUV here has less than a 400hp engine option. The 5.7 is considered a dinosaur engine in our market. It's unchanged since 2007. It's an older engine design than the 4.0L. It's a fine engine, but it's not very powerful or fuel efficient.

The same reason we get the most powerful 150 engine and our budget model has more power than your highest spec LC150. And the most powerful Tacoma engine. etc. We don't have a market for lower power models like you because our fuel is a LOT cheaper and our highways are a lot faster. A 1GD would have a 5% take rate or less. It simply doesn't have enough power to manage in our traffic. It's just a different market with different needs.

 

[Knowbuddy]

You spew so much bollocks. Apparently we're poor too, in your eyes, which is hilarious.

We get the 1GD because the 4.0 is an old dog and nobody here would buy it. It sold so badly they had to scrap it.

Care to explain why we get 3 engine variants on the 200 series platform....

Enjoy your 4runner. I won't be replying anymore. I've wasted enough of my time on a fruitless endeavor. I'm going to go turn on the ventilated seats and luxuriate in the shimamoku woodgrain of my LX.

Bye Felicia. Hope you learned something from the countless points made by various members especially Jetboy and Itsky(you are both the real MVPs) Enjoy your rebadged luxury Toyota.

 

[LX470Mack]

Bye Felicia. Hope you learned something from the countless points made by various members especially Jetboy and Itsky(you are both the real MVPs) Enjoy your rebadged luxury Toyota.

Sigh....

 

[Knowbuddy]

How have I not contributed? Good thing there are these little buttons at the bottom and top of the screen that allow you to view the conversation. But if we were to read them again it would just show you are a stubborn dumb ass not to mention a bigot so... like I said bye! Feel free to call everyone more names but facts are facts.