GX460 vs T4R

Discussion in '150-Series Toyotas' started by bap5340, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. bap5340

    bap5340

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    I recently watched a youtube video by Alex on Autos. He's pretty thorough and insightful, and does a great review. He mentioned that the 460 is more closely related to the Prado, and that the 4R and the FJ were more like "cousins" than siblings. I understood that they were mechanically more related than not. Can anyone provide clarity on this. Clearly there are several different suspensions and trims out there.

    Do the body sizes or interior dimensions vary dramatically. The 460 is taller, without a doubt, due to the vents in the ceiling. I'm currently driving an 04 LC and love it, but am considering something a bit smaller. V8 power is desired.

    Any constructive comments are welcome.

    Thanks,

    Bruce
     
  2. Jetboy

    Jetboy

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    I drove both back to back in deciding which one to buy. v8 power means basically nothing here. The GX460 is more powerful, but also about 800lbs heavier. Actual performance is nearly identical in acceleration and the 4runner handles better due to it's lighter weight. The 4runner also is better offroad - again due to lighter weight.

    The Trail Edition is by far the closest cousin with the GX460 and Prado. The Trail has KDSS, crawl control, rear e-locker, and multi-terrain select as standard features. KDSS is standard, the others are optional on the GX460. Those are the primary "off road" features. I do not believe the GX offers a rear locker anymore.

    Interior of the GX is nicer than a Limited 4runner. The interior is very similar however to the LTD 4runner. One important condsideration between the two is whether the middle row of seats folds down. On the GX and 3 row 4runners the middle row does not fold all the way down. It merely tips the seat backs forward for a sloping interior cargo space that is about 10" higher deck than that in a 2 row 4runner where the middle seats do the traditional flip and fold method. So the 2 row 4runner has a LOT more cargo space if that is important to you. OTOH the GX has many features the 4runner does not - heated steering wheel, adaptive cruise control, smart key (only on ltd 4runner), HID headlights, air height adjustment suspension, awd (only on ltd - not a feature I want nor care about).

    So it's a mixed bag. A v8 at 4runner weight would be nice for performance. The 6 speed auto would also be nice in the 4runner and allow a bit lower gear in the diffs. I LOVE heated steering wheels in the winter - I know it's sounds silly, but it really is awesome. I chose a 4runner for the better real world mpg, better potential for offroad performance, cargo area capacity, and better resale value. I could have made very good arguments for the GX. If the GX were close in weight to the 4runner, I probably would have gone for a GX. It's a tank.

    In a perfect world we'd get a GX body with the 2 row 4runner interior seat design, the v6 is fine for me, but I'd want the 8speed auto (4.5L:1 first gear), and all of the Trail Edition suspension.

    GX:
    [​IMG]
    4Runner:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
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  3. TRD83

    TRD83

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    Im assuming you are looking new? I'm sure there are some intricacies in the redesigns that I'm unaware of as I was doing "lightly used" comparison shoping in late 2013.

    Between the T4R and GX, I thought the GX had a much better "feel." It's worth the 30 minutes of dealing with salesman to experience the difference yourself. I can't exactly quantify it so I know it's not too helpful, and given the similarities between the two it was likely a combination of the quiet V8, maybe more sound deadening material/ better door seals, extra weight, or just an interior that I felt was nicer and better thought out, but the Lexus felt nicer. I didn't opt for the "premium" - a little [more] unwanted complexity and all I wanted was the lights (which I've since added). The cost was close enough that I felt the GX was worth it. Also worth mentioning this is a DD for the wife/ baby hauler.

    Having lived with the lexus for a bit (never had these impressions of a T4R):

    The barn door rear on the GX is a bit annoying. depending on your parking situation, it could be a deal breaker; if you park on the side of a road, the door swings out the "wrong way." Parking in a driveway or garage it's less of a difference.

    The V8 is good - never searches for a gear, always feels strong, and rarely needs to downshift. It's certainly good mpg compared to a 100/200 series, and driving fairly conservatively the gauge typically reads high 18s as an average.

    Ive previously been less than impressed with the thirtyness of toyota V6s (having owned a 1993 3.0L, 2000 3.4L and 2005 4.0L), so I didn't pay much attention to the "claimed" mileage gains. I regularly get better mileage than all three of those in a 4 ton diesel F250.

    The stock tires were junk. I should have ditched then earlier, but I left them on until they needed replacing - I think the 4runners also come with the same Bridgestone Dueler HPs but I could be wrong.

    I usually end up tweaking whatever I get - if that's your goal the T4R is definitely the ticket. Aftermarket is hard to come by in North America for the GX, and there might be a slight increase as they start to see more time offroad (second and third owners) but I doubt if it will be much.

    Overall I'm happy with the GX.
     
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  4. bap5340

    bap5340

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    Thanks for your comments. I am looking more at used than new. Most likely 2010-2012. I wish there was more to know about the next generation T4R. More power would be nice. I've driven the Gen 5 and felt the power could be much better. In fairness, I am comparing the current T4R to my LC100, which has a greater throttle response. I really like what the GX has to offer (minus the barn door), but don't feel I need the Lexus badge. For me this is all about a great blend of capability, size, and value. I'm not knocking the Lexus badge, but if all things were equal, I'd opt for the more stealth appearance. Toyota/Lexus is the brand I'm staying with.
     
  5. Jetboy

    Jetboy

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    Where I live the used GXs are very similar priced to similar used 4runners. I bought a new 4runner in large part because the resale is so high that it didn't make sense to buy a used 4 year old 4runner with 50k miles for 5k less than a new one. OTOH a 4yr old GX is closer to half the price of a new one. On that basis the used GX is probably a better value. And the early 5th gen 4runners will have what is IMO kind ugly red interior dash lights. Only '14 and later have the updated dash.

    The throttle response is pretty weak on the 4runner. You have to dig really deep for power. Compared to our RX350 that has a 2Gr, the 4runner feels a lot weaker, but in reality if you get deep into the throttle it has more power. I think a gearing change could go a long way toward making the 4runner more peppy. 3.73 diffs with a moderate 3.5:1 first gear is just ok. The GX has 3.9 diffs and the same 1st gear, so it's not much different in that respect. The one advantage is with the 6 speed you could go to 4.56 diffs and still have a similar highway rpm as 3.73 diffs with the 5 speed auto. Unfortunately there is nothing in between - no one is making 4.10 or 4.30 gears for the 8.2 Toyota diffs. 4.10s would be ideal for the 4runner IMO.

    I hate my lexus dealer. Larry Miller in SLC. Worst dealer experience I've ever had. That was a big deciding factor for me as well - not having my car broken into and stripped at the dealership when I leave it for service. That happened to our IS250 last summer - $22k worth of damage and unconscionably bad attempts at fixing and overall response by the manager. They left it outside unfenced in a specific spot that was out of camera coverage and it was specifically targeted - pretty likely it's an employee doing it. So for me after our RX350 Lexus is a - never ever again so long as I live in Utah.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  6. Moose545

    Moose545

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    With the seats folded like that in the GX, is the surface still flat enough to sleep on although still angled a bit? I know in my FJ there was no way in $%$^ for a 6'2 person. 4Runner is an obvious yes, anyone know the length on either and if it's possible to open the rear hatches from the inside rear area, is there a handle or button on either?
     
  7. Schattenjager

    Schattenjager

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    I just finished an exhausted search for a mid $30's priced rig. Wanted Toyota of course, so I looked at early LX570 / LC200s, 4Runners and only near the end, the GX460. One problem was availability as I am remote and had to travel to see anything. My quest revealed that the LC200 and Lexus variant have a very unfortunate propensity for rust due to the second party coating used at the factory. Poor Toyota and rust issues... This will certainly prove to be something for future LC200 buyers to watch for as they depreciate. After seeing three total rust buckets, I scratched it off my list.

    The 4Runner is compelling and I while the resale value is super strong, I would hate to have to sell a 4 or 5 year old 4Runner when new is easily financed and darn near the same price. I found a 2015 Limited with 15K miles for $39 and thought this would be my next ride. My hesitation was the super horrid interior - the thing I look at all the time and have to use. It looks like it was designed by Mattel. Well screwed together of course, but that tiny screen, cheap plastic cosmetics (tactile stuff is good) and layout were really off putting, but I needed a rig for this winters commute to Calgary and Anchorage.

    Thankfully, my hesitancy paid off. I found a beautiful GX460 Premium with all four switches by the shifter, clean carfax and good maintenance history. 2012, 69K miles - $28K. The build is excellent, as is the design. The interior is a very comfortable place to be and it enjoys all the robust goodness that a Land Cruiser brings to the table. The V8 gives a 6500 tow rating and is silky smooth. 6 Speed tranny is smooth and unnoticeable as well. Truly, it is a 3/4 sized Land Cruiser that Toyota calls a Land Cruiser Prado. Done deal!

    As far as a 4Runner being the same thing as a GX - well, it is not. They share a platform of frame and corner equipment such as breaks and hubs. That is it. The Tacoma and the FJ have far more in common. There are people who think the Tacoma is really a HiLux too, but its not that either. The 4Runner is a global platform like the GX, but you see the GX (Prado) in serious duty around the world. 4Runner, too, but not the same.

    So beware what conventional wisdom folks tell you. I had no idea what a GX really was until three weeks ago. I have owned several Land Cruisers and two Tacomas. The GX feels Land Cruiser great, is comfortable, has plenty of aftermarket support, and saved me $9K.
     
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  8. tls3601

    tls3601

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    @Schattenjager all of the above is true, but I would still want the 4Runner Off Road. I think it really comes down to usage.
     
  9. Jetboy

    Jetboy

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    I think there might be a little confusion here. The GX and 4runner are more similar than 4runner and Tacoma or 4runner and FJ Cruiser. Although the FJ Cruiser is also really similar - but shorter wheel base.

    Interiors are quite a bit different. Materials, dash layout, etc. I think stereo is the same as the Limited in terms of JBL system. Middle and rear seats are the same except for the covering materials. All the hidden stuff like the fan motor for example is identical - they share all the same part numbers for things like the HVAC internals. They share everything underneath except for engine/transmission and a few minor bits depending on model. The AWD 4runner has the same transfer case. The other models are part time 4x4 - so obviously different. Unfortunately they've all taken a downgrade from the multi-mode offered in the 3rd gen. The Trail 4runner has the exact same KDSS system and parts and same suspension. All the GX and KDSS 4runners share all the same spindles, brakes, steering equipment, bushings etc except. Because of course they're all 150 platform. The really unique part is the v8 option. I wish both 150 models would update to the Prado interior.

    Some GX models have air suspension - which also fits the 4runner (I ran GX460 air springs for about 2 years until I popped one of them). My setup was manually adjustable with a wireless control unit to the manifold/compressor so I could choose ride height, but also I had a lot more range of height available doing it that way. Oddly enough, they were fantastic offroad, but I never loved the highway ride quality. Shock valving is tricky with exponentially progressive rate springs. I think it's hard to use anything other than OEM Lexus shocks with that system and they don't offer much in terms of offroad performance or travel.

    My biggest beef with the GX - and why I don't own one is that they weigh 5,400lbs. For that reason they're really handicapped for offroad use. They weigh about the same as a suburban. I'm amazed how well the drivetrain lasts with that kind of mass to move. Otherwise I think it's a better value. Especially used. My beef with the 4runner is how ridiculously deconteted it is. There are literally self driving cars you can buy and yet Toyota doesn't even put automatic headlights in? Even my 1992 GM work truck has them. How is that possible? I've added it aftermarket - but that's nuts that it lacks features included on even the cheapest model toyota sells. It even has the wiring run - and a blank plastic plug in the dash where the sensor goes. Just buy a Camry sensor - plug it in - do some minor wiring and it works. Why would Toyota intentionally build the dash and wiring for it - then not even make it an option you can order? I don't get it. Auto headlights are not exactly advanced technology..

    My 15 4runner Trail Premium is worth more used than a '15 GX460 that has a lot more features, better engine, better layout for me (I like the rear door), more headroom, - pretty much everything I would change. Since I already have an RX350 it doesn't make much sense for me to give up the offroad benefits of my 4runner. But it's easy to make the argument that a GX is a better value. Especially used ones. I do love me a nice heated steering wheel! I keep being tempted to trade across and swap all my 4runner mods to the GX. I'm just not sure how hard it will be to strip 5-700lbs of weight out of a GX to get down to a more manageable weight for offroad use.

    What I think is the missing goldilocks vehicle would be a Limited 4runner with KDSS. I would have bought one if it were an option as my first choice of all of them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  10. 22Eyunu35VO

    22Eyunu35VO

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    • GX460 doesn't use JBL stereo. It is a Mark Levinson on high end.
    • On '10-'13 GX all have powered 3rd row / '14+ just on Luxury model

    I equate it more to a bed... same box spring different mattress. For me 5th generation 4Runner would have been inadequate for my towing needs. I can also get 21MPG on freeway so V8 penalty isn't there.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  11. Moose545

    Moose545

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    I love a 460 until I see a 470 done up nicely, makes it hard to think about spending 10k+ more for one opposed to a 470 and have dough left to put back in it. Gorgeous.
     
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  12. Jetboy

    Jetboy

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    I'm kinda excited for Rubithon this year. Apparently there's a gx group going with a bunch of vehicles. I'm going with the land cruiser wagons, cuz they're the coolest :) But it'll be a good chance to sort of compare notes on the small differences between them on the trail. A chance to see who broke what and how. I'm sure they'll be at least a little carnage for some of us. It's a great way to test things like skid plates and such. And with a bunch of similar vehicles it'll probably be a better way to compare things as opposed to last year when I was the only 150 on the trail. I'm not aware of any GX's having run the Rubicon other than the 4wheeler magazine. I'm sure it's happened, but I just haven't seen much about it. Of particular interest to me is whether the spindles and front axles hold up well on loaded up GX at 7000+ lbs. I'm sure at least one GX will show up with 1500lbs of armor and extra weight bolted on and loaded in. That's really where the true test of the durability of the parts is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  13. CreeperSleeper

    CreeperSleeper SILVER Star

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    I will be on that run stacking rocks and taking pics. :)
     
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  14. 22Eyunu35VO

    22Eyunu35VO

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    I can't find it now but I heard Andrew St Pierre say on one of his videos that he wouldn't have any reservations taking a Prado 150 on the Canning Stock Route. Even though he doesn't like the look of the Prado he felt it was more than tough enough to handle it.
     
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  15. LX470Mack

    LX470Mack

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    In my opinion, it's not really a comparison. The GX460 is the superior.

    Better suspension, engine, gearbox, interior, features, fit and finish, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  16. Jetboy

    Jetboy

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    I'm not sure where you are getting this information from. They are the same platform. They are built on the exact same frame. In the same tahara Japan factory. With the same parts. The 4Runner is closer to a Prado 150 than a GX in most ways. The 4r has the exact same drive train and almost all parts throughout as the gasoline Prado 150's sold under the "land cruiser" name. The difference between the GX and 4R is drive train, sheet metal, and most interior parts (most of the stuff under neath in the interior is still the same like fan motors, etc). The 4runner has the advantage of being lighter weight, better body clearance all around, better mpg, more cargo space (2 row model), and has a rear locker. GX has better headroom, larger engine, 6AT, and luxury interior.

    The extra weight really is entirely the result of the engine and all of the interior luxury parts. The 1GR Prado 150 essentially identical weight to the 4runner. It's not built heavier. It's doesn't have thicker sheet metal. It doesn't have larger bearings. It doesn't have different electronics. It's all the same. The 4runner is literally a Prado 150 with north american styled sheet metal. Even the Prado 150 interior is nearly identical to the 4runner. It's basically Camry vs ES350. The similarities are 99% the differences are 1%.

    Where the comparison starts to get pretty interesting to me is Limited 4runner plus supercharger vs GX460. Price gap is about $5k. And the supercharger is also about $5k. But the 4runner then would have a lot more power ~400hp/400tq vs the GX at 301/315. Would that make up for the interior features the GX has? Probably depends on the buyer.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  17. tls3601

    tls3601

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    @Jetboy excellent synopsis. I have seen some of the foreign market stuff up close and you are right on! Toyota knows they can get big money for the Landcruiser name here, not so much in foreign markets.
     
  18. LX470Mack

    LX470Mack

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    They are completely different cars. Some of the architecture is the same.

    Anything bearing the LandCruiser name plate which the Prado does and by proxy the GX is significantly better engineered and more expensive than a 4-runner.

    The FJ was also built on the same platform and in Japan too (At least our examples in Oz were), with the same gearbox and engine and it is a great vehicle, however, it is inferior to a Prado/GX. In terms of safety, insulation, material quality, general fit and finish and refinement.

    It is the same with the 4runner and GX. The 4runner is outmatched.

    An Avalon and an ES are same platform etc....apples and Oranges. Shared parts and architecture equal kin, not equals.
     
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  19. tls3601

    tls3601

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    I would take a 4Runner any day over the GX. Weight and lack of clearance work against it Off Road. The GX is a good value used as they don’t hold value anywhere close to a 4Runner, but then again what does? The Tacoma has strong resale value too. They were built for different purposes and in a sense different markets as well.
     
  20. Knowbuddy

    Knowbuddy

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    Whatever helps Prado owners sleep at night. But They have the same underpinnings. Yes, it is not named a Land Cruiser Prado because the 4runner is a household name. But bottom line is if we are going off what you are saying then the GX is not a Prado. Because it comes with the V8 and different front end. I've driven both and the 4runner has same build quality. You can argue it all you want but it's the same platform with a different skin. American Markets are a funny thing and we don't follow the logic of the rest of the world. But bottom line is the 4runner is more than just a cousin to a prado. People get a hard on for the Land Cruiser name but Toyota could throw the land cruiser badge on a highlander if they wanted. If they felt the need they could throw the land cruiser name on the 4runner and I bet the general populous would accept it no questions asked. So why are we trying to analyze why things are marketed differently? It's because different markets have varying demands. As for your last comment the 4runner is far from outmatched. The GX is heavier, less offroad ready out of the box. V8 vs V6 is a wash because the GX is heavier. So where is it outmatched? If we are comparing new to new then I could easily argue that the 4runner is a better value from an offroader's perspective. Used vs Used is different due to depreciation. But it stands it still takes more work for trail worthiness with the GX.
     
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