GX460 vs T4R (1 Viewer)

[LX470Mack]

Basically none of this is true.

The 1GR is still the top spec gasoline engine in the LC150 in every market in the entire world except the USA and China. China has the 3.5L from the Tacoma. The 1GR is even still the most common gasoline engine in the 200 series. So that means it's the "best they have to offer" in your own words.

Mate you have no clue, the 1GR-FE sold so poorly in Australia and was so dated they cut it from our 150 range entirely a few years ago. It doesn't make the cut in any Toyota vehicle sold in Oz now and this is the home of the TLC.

Sure must be "the top spec gasoline engine in the LC150 in every market in the entire world"....smh

It only made the 200 series as a poverty pack option in 3rd world countries to save significant cost and parts of Europe with ridiculous emissions restriction, and only until 2011, because those places wouldn't allow the mighty 2UZ-FE or 4.5TTD, it was laughed out of Australia.

We never had it in a 200 series ever, it was in our 120 and 150 series and took less than 10% of the sales until they scrapped it. It's a great engine, it's just Toyota offers us even better ones.

 

[LX470Mack]

Bro. The Land Cruiser nameplate, is just a that.

You just wrote a lot of words and and further confirmed my point. You get luxury features added to the same truck. It’s the 150 platform, before that it was the 120. Same story.

I wish I could live in your fantasy world of rainbows where all Toyota/Lexus products even with $40k price disparity's are considered equal in your mind. I could drive a Yaris and pretend it was an LC500

 

[Jetboy]

Mate you have no clue, the 1GR-FE sold so poorly in Australia and was so dated they cut it from our 150 range entirely a few years ago. It doesn't make the cut in any Toyota vehicle sold in Oz now and this is the home of the TLC.

Sure must be "the top spec gasoline engine in the LC150 in every market in the entire world"....smh

It only made the 200 series as a poverty pack option in 3rd world countries to save significant cost and parts of Europe with ridiculous emissions restriction, and only until 2011, because those places wouldn't allow the mighty 2UZ-FE or 4.5TTD, it was laughed out of Australia.

We never had it in a 200 series ever, it was in our 120 and 150 series and took less than 10% of the sales until they scrapped it. It's a great engine, it's just Toyota offers us even better ones.

I would say Japan is the home of the Land Cruiser (although I believe Africa is the largest market)...

Find any market in the world that has a gasoline LC150 that the 1GR isn't the top spec engine. The only one that exists is China. And it just recently moved to the 3.5L. The USA Market will make that jump soon as well.

Just to help put your myopic view in perspective. Toyota has sold about 260,000 Prado model land cruisers in the entire history of Australia. Australia averages about 15,000 per year. Even the GX460 roughly doubles that. But nothing close to the 4runner. In comparison 130,000 4runners were sold in the USA just last year. One month of USA 4runner sales are about the same as a year of Australia Prado sales. 2 Years of 4runner sales = the entire history of Australia Prado sales.

In short - Australia's market doesn't drive any choices. It's a fringe market that makes up around 3% of sales of the 150 platform. The USA sells about 40%. Australia takes what Toyota chooses to offer given the relatively low demands for engine output in Australia, lax emissions rules, and high fuel costs. Australian use is typically low speed and prioritizes fuel economy over power. The 4.0 is under powered for our market. It's overpowered for yours. A 1GD would be a tough sell at only 175hp. Of course we also have much stricter emissions requirements so it would likely be less after it was cleaned up for the USA market. I'd love to have it as an option. But I wouldn't buy it - especially if it came in at 160hp, and it would sell in very low numbers given how low the power output is.

The reason Australia only has 1 engine option is not because it's a huge market. It's because it's a small market and it's an engine that fits the usage profile. Toyota doesn't offer more engines because there isn't a big enough market to support all of them. Across the board at every level the USA market vehicles have more powerful engines. Our 4runner has more power than your Prado 150. Our GX has the same engine as your 200. Our 200 has has more power than your 200. You think the 4runner having a larger engine is an anomaly. To me it looks like it's par for the course, considering every other model across basically the entire Toyota lineup has a larger engine. Australia doesn't have a gasoline engine offered at all right now.

Ultimately you're living in a dream world already. You can pretend the Prado is different from a 4runner despite all evidence to the contrary. Even if you can't point to a single difference other than "it says land cruiser on it" and the sheet metal is different but for some reason you're sure the difference is there. We just can't see it, measure it, or find any evidence of it. But it's there - just trust me...

4Runner = Prado 150 in different skin. Has been for three generations.
GX460 = Prado 150 Kakadu + V8 Engine.
GX460 = 4Runner + different skin + Luxury interior + V8 Engine.

They're all iterations of the same vehicle.

 

[Knowbuddy]

Well said! He obviously does not understand various Toyota platforms nor will he ever.

 

[Itsky]

Post #31 remains true. Jetboy, thanks for the additional lesson.

 

[LX470Mack]

I would say Japan is the home of the Land Cruiser (although I believe Africa is the largest market)...

Find any market in the world that has a gasoline LC150 that the 1GR isn't the top spec engine. The only one that exists is China. And it just recently moved to the 3.5L. The USA Market will make that jump soon as well.

Just to help put your myopic view in perspective. Toyota has sold about 260,000 Prado model land cruisers in the entire history of Australia. Australia averages about 15,000 per year. Even the GX460 roughly doubles that. But nothing close to the 4runner. In comparison 130,000 4runners were sold in the USA just last year. One month of USA 4runner sales are about the same as a year of Australia Prado sales. 2 Years of 4runner sales = the entire history of Australia Prado sales.

In short - Australia's market doesn't drive any choices. It's a fringe market that makes up around 3% of sales of the 150 platform. The USA sells about 40%. Australia takes what Toyota chooses to offer given the relatively low demands for engine output in Australia, lax emissions rules, and high fuel costs. Australian use is typically low speed and prioritizes fuel economy over power. The 4.0 is under powered for our market. It's overpowered for yours. A 1GD would be a tough sell at only 175hp. Of course we also have much stricter emissions requirements so it would likely be less after it was cleaned up for the USA market. I'd love to have it as an option. But I wouldn't buy it - especially if it came in at 160hp, and it would sell in very low numbers given how low the power output is.

The reason Australia only has 1 engine option is not because it's a huge market. It's because it's a small market and it's an engine that fits the usage profile. Toyota doesn't offer more engines because there isn't a big enough market to support all of them. Across the board at every level the USA market vehicles have more powerful engines. Our 4runner has more power than your Prado 150. Our GX has the same engine as your 200. Our 200 has has more power than your 200. You think the 4runner having a larger engine is an anomaly. To me it looks like it's par for the course, considering every other model across basically the entire Toyota lineup has a larger engine. Australia doesn't have a gasoline engine offered at all right now.

Ultimately you're living in a dream world already. You can pretend the Prado is different from a 4runner despite all evidence to the contrary. Even if you can't point to a single difference other than "it says land cruiser on it" and the sheet metal is different but for some reason you're sure the difference is there. We just can't see it, measure it, or find any evidence of it. But it's there - just trust me...

4Runner = Prado 150 in different skin. Has been for three generations.
GX460 = Prado 150 Kakadu + V8 Engine.
GX460 = 4Runner + different skin + Luxury interior + V8 Engine.

They're all iterations of the same vehicle.

You are still clueless! Australia is the largest market for LandCruisers worldwide. We take 10% of the market share, particularly with the 200s and the 70's, which you don't even get, because you are the "Fringe" market.

TLC development is based around rigorous testing in Oz and we have been a pivotal marketplace for a long time. Since the 1950s in point of fact, when Cruisers arrived for the Snowy Hydro scheme. We have more model variants than any other market worldwide. The U.S is the fringe market in terms of Land Cruisers.

With regards to the engines, you're completely and utterly wrong, again. What a surprise.

We dropped the old 4.0 because nobody bought it. The Turbo diesel in the 150 offers far more torque than the 4.0

You think your 200s are more powerful than the 4.5 Twin Turbo diesel V8 we get? Hilarious! Wrong again.

We get the 5.7 in our LX if we want it and we also get the LX450D.

You can try and justify the fact that you are driving an inferior Fratboy rig to the TLC name plate. You seem stuck on the fact they share some common architecture in the vain hopes of convincing yourself you drive a Land Cruiser. You don't.

Fortuner: GX, GXL, Crusade. Our equivalent of the 4runner, based on the Hilux.

150 Prado: GX, GXL, Anniversary Editions, Altitude Edition, Kakadu

70 series Landcruiser: Workmate and GXL trims available on the single cab, dual cab and wagon. 4.5TD V8

200 series: GX, GXL, Anniversary editions, Altitude edition, Sahara, Lexus LX. V8 Petrol or Diesel options available on both.

 

[LX470Mack]

Well said! He obviously does not understand various Toyota platforms nor will he ever.

Oh look, you're up to 6 likes. Carry on.

 

[Itsky]

You are still clueless! Australia is the largest market for LandCruisers worldwide. We take 10% of the market share, particularly with the 200s and the 70's, which you don't even get, because you are the "Fringe" market.

TLC development is based around rigorous testing in Oz and we have been a pivotal marketplace for a long time. Since the 1950s in point of fact, when Cruisers arrived for the Snowy Hydro scheme. We have more model variants than any other market worldwide. The U.S is the fringe market in terms of Land Cruisers.

With regards to the engines, you're completely and utterly wrong, again. What a surprise.

We dropped the old 4.0 because nobody bought it. The Turbo diesel in the 150 offers far more torque.

You think your 200s are more powerful than the 4.5 Twin Turbo diesel V8 we get? Hilarious!

We get the 5.7 in our LX if we want it and we also get the LX450D.

You can try and justify the fact that you are driving an inferior Fratboy rig to the TLC name plate. You seem stuck on the fact they share some common architecture in the vain hopes of convincing yourself you drive a Land Cruiser. You don't.

Fortuner: GX, GXL, Crusade. Our equivalent of the 4runner, based on the Hilux.

150 Prado: GX, GXL, Anniversary Editions, Altitude Edition, Kakadu

70 series Landcruiser: Workmate and GXL trims available on the single cab, dual cab and wagon. 4.5TD V8

200 series: GX, GXL, Anniversary editions, Altitude edition, Sahara, Lexus LX. V8 Petrol or Diesel options available on both.

FYI

 

[LX470Mack]

FYI

You're really clutching at straws. My latest point highlights the delusional view I've been arguing for the last week.

The T4R is a cheaper, lower cost option for people who can't swing for a real TLC or GX.

Oh look, even wiki states the Prado and GX are the same. But hang on a minute, if the T4R was in the same category, why don't they mention that too? I mean if it's an equivalent of the Prado/Gx and all.....?

Oh wait, I know, it's because it isn't. It jacked the architecture and put a cheap ass plasticky body on top of it, to hock at significantly less money.

 

[Itsky]

Run along boy, I think it’s your nap time.

 

[LX470Mack]

Run along boy, I think it’s your nap time.

Run out of facts have we now? Enjoy you're chintzy frat bro wannabe TLC.

 

[Knowbuddy]

Wow very intellectual Wikipedia! Come back when you have better sources. Otherwise have fun pretending that your geographical location means you are an expert on Toyota marketshare and branding.

 

[LX470Mack]

Wow very intellectual Wikipedia! Come back when you have better sources. Otherwise have fun pretending that your geographical location means you are an expert on Toyota marketshare and branding.

I never stated to be such, I held my position when my country was called a "Fringe" market by a complete clot, when it is quite the other way around. It's quite as simple as this. The T4R is Toyota's entry level Frat bro off roader and not as good as a GX/Prado. End of story. You can be bitter about it all you like.

I live in a country town half the year and I see maybe 50-60 Land Cruisers of various generations a day. It's all anybody drives in the Australian regional areas. We even have quite a few 90s and early 2ks Jap import 4runners. If you tried to launch this argument over here or on an Australian forum you'd be laughed at.

We have a body on frame entry level off roader called the Fortuner. Based on our Hilux platform. It too is great off road, to compare it to the Prado though would be a joke.

 

[Knowbuddy]

Yep you have no idea. So have fun in your disillusion thinking. Like I said let us know when you have actually driven a 5th gen 4runner extensively and then we can talk. Until then your opinion is just that an opinion that has no backing of reality or fact.

 

[LX470Mack]

Yep you have no idea. So have fun in your disillusion thinking. Like I said let us know when you have actually driven a 5th gen 4runner extensively and then we can talk. Until then your opinion is just that an opinion that has no backing of reality or fact.

Is the fact that my mother is from DC anything to go by?.....she drives a 2011 in the winter, its 60-70% of what a Prado/GX is imo. My father owns a Prado.

What gives you the right to comment? Your massive contributions to mud?

Does the fact I sold Lexus and Toyota for 5 years also contribute to my argument....yes. You don't even have an Avatar. Almost everything you say is chiming in on somebody else's points. Off you go Jonny Utah.

 

[Knowbuddy]

Johnny Utah? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Do you think it insults me that I live in a lovely state that enjoys the greatest snow on earth and is considered the off-road mecca for the USA? The fact that you do not understand various platforms and have worked for toyota is alarming. Dealers are know to be dumb but you take it to an entire new level. The jab that I do not post a lot on Mud holds little weight to knowledge of a platform that I personally have drive extensively in various iterations. So until you have personally owned a 4runner and do not go off of what MOMMY and DADDY say your opinion holds little weight with me.

 

[LX470Mack]

Johnny Utah? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Do you think it insults me that I live in a lovely state that enjoys the greatest snow on earth and is considered the off-road mecca for the USA? The fact that you do not understand various platforms and have worked for toyota is alarming. Dealers are know to be dumb but you take it to an entire new level. The jab that I do not post a lot on Mud holds little weight to knowledge of a platform that I personally have drive extensively in various iterations. So until you have personally owned a 4runner and do not go off of what MOMMY and DADDY say your opinion holds little weight with me.

You're clearly a highly eductaed fellow. Excellent points you make. I sold cars for five years to put myself through college debt free, I learned a tonne about cruisers. You have not been able to refute a single one of my points.

If you think you got a LandCruiser/Prado/GX wrapped up in a T4R package then good for you.

It was a Point Break reference in regards to your location. You're probably a Mormon too. Did the cult budget not have room in the kitty for the GX?

 

[Knowbuddy]

Thanks! I am a highly educated fellow. Want me to brag about my two Bach degrees in Finance and Economics, an MBA, and CFA? You seem like an ignorant individual so there is no point in arguing with you. Oh thanks for trying to insult a religion that you assume I belong to. Not sure what that has to do with my buying power or my knowledge of a platform you can't seem to comprehend. So I am done because you can't seem to compile a proper argument other than you are from Australia and seem to know more then all the individuals that can piece together an actual argument here on mud.

 

[LX470Mack]

Thanks! I am a highly educated fellow. Want me to brag about my two Bach degrees in Finance and Economics, an MBA, and CFA? You seem like an ignorant individual so there is no point in arguing with you. Oh thanks for trying to insult a religion that you assume I belong to. Not sure what that has to do with my buying power or my knowledge of a platform you can't seem to comprehend. So I am done because you can't seem to compile a proper argument other than you are from Australia and seem to know more then all the individuals that can piece together an actual argument here on mud.

There is NO argument though....

An entry level $35k vehicle is never going to be better than a c. $55-70k one. Two Bach degrees and you live in Utah and drive a 4runner, yeah that makes sense.

 

[Itsky]

You're clearly a highly eductaed fellow. Excellent points you make. I sold cars for five years to put myself through college debt free, I learned a tonne about cruisers. You have not been able to refute a single one of my points.

If you think you got a LandCruiser/Prado/GX wrapped up in a T4R package then good for you.

It was a Point Break reference in regards to your location. You're probably a Mormon too. Did the cult budget not have room in the kitty for the GX?

You have proven now, that despite having sold Toyota’s for five years, you are clueless about 150 platform which you choose to argue about.

Above you reference points that you have made, can you summarize those for us? Because, I don’t remember you having any besides price and general ausie perception.

I’ll start with the pros:

- luxury interior
- v8
- +1,500 towing

Now the cons:
- about 8% heavier, so the ~11% power gain is nullified, largely
- 11% less efficient and 11% less range

So let’s have them, once and for all, set us straight. Please list the facts why the gx460 is better than the 4Runner.

Pins and needles.