GX460 & GXOR B.S. thread (6 Viewers)

[r2m]

Both of our Subies were a bit better than my GX in the snow. My 5MT Forester was the most fun with the viscious center coupling. Our CVT Outback was also pretty darn good, but not as fun. Not really sure why they were better than the GX, but they were. May have just been feeling more planted due to the lower COG.

Regardless, the Torsen center diff in the GX is significantly better in snow/ice than a normal part-time 4WD system.

Are you saying you lock the center diff in snow/ice? Hummm. Never considered doing that.

 

[Rednexus]

Are you saying you lock the center diff in snow/ice? Hummm. Never considered doing that.

Only if it's super-deep. Otherwise, I leave it unlocked for minor amounts of snow/ice.

 

[jdam]

Both of our Subies were a bit better than my GX in the snow. My 5MT Forester was the most fun with the viscious center coupling. Our CVT Outback was also pretty darn good, but not as fun. Not really sure why they were better than the GX, but they were. May have just been feeling more planted due to the lower COG.

Regardless, the Torsen center diff in the GX is significantly better in snow/ice than a normal part-time 4WD system.

Honestly it might be because of the "symmetrical AWD" in the Subies - they only ever do 50/50. The GXs are rear biased unlocked, 40/60 I believe, so great in the dry for swinging that weight around but makes it a a bit unstable in no-traction situations. I've definitely gone sideways into an intersection on an icy morning before.

 

[Acrad]

I thought I’ve heard the Subarus of “now” you really need a manual transmission to get the AWD system of “old” and the CVT ones are neutered in comparison to the older versions. Timeframes I don’t know.

I constantly hear from Subaru friends.. I don’t need snow tires since the AWD system is so good. That’s fine for the go.. but many don’t understand the stopping is arguably more important. I’ve never had a Subi myself.. almost bought an 83 Turbo wagon when I was a kid though.

The ATTESA-ETS system in my G35x and even the basic Haldex type system in my CX-5 has never left me stuck anywhere but I do attribute a lot to tires.

GX Torsen:
“The torque distribution during straightline driving is 40/60 (front/rear), which is helpful for an appropriate steering response during the initial stage of a turn. During the acceleration stage of a turn, the torque distribution increases in the rear wheel”

460_Transfer_Case_VF4BM PDF - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

A technical document that provides detailed information on the VF4BM transfer case used in four-wheel-drive systems.

www.clublexus.com

Of course 50:50 with CDL locked but I have heard some speculation.. (can’t find documented so far) that 30-53 front and 47-70 front-to-rear are achievable.. again just undocumented speculation that could be wrong

We all probably experience vastly different types of snow at times too. I’m more apt to be in deeper Cascade concrete heavy slush.

 

[Rednexus]

The MT subies have a viscous center differential with a default 50/50 torque split. Since the differential is viscious, it allows for slip between the front and rear axles, in terms of difference in wheel speed. But, the torque split is fixed and does not change.

The AT and CVT subies use a different electronic system that is front biased (default 80/20, but it can get closer to 50/50 when needed). Snow traction in our CVT subie was just as good as my 5MT subie, if not better since it had a effective traction control system that my 5MT didn't, but the fun factor was completely absent with the CVT. The 5MT was a ton of fun to slide around in the snow.

Stock vs. stock...both on all-season/all-terrain tires....both subies will out perform a GX. If the GX has tires aired down, it will perform better due to bigger tires/ground clearance. For whatever reason, the ATRAC on my GX completely neuters snow performance, by all but stopping wheelspin, and I've gotten really close to getting the rig stuck in snow our subies would have plowed through, since the Subie systems (or lack thereof for the 5MT) allowed wheelspin. Aired down, it's not an issue in the GX, but I still made a ATRAC/VSC off button which allows for wheelspin and makes the rig a lot better in the snow, as I'm not going to air down for every minor snow section.

 

[Acrad]

I typically use the Mud/Sand MTS mode on my 460 in snow since that is allowed to work in 4H as well. This allows for a lot more wheel spin that full on ATRAC. I’ve never had a reason to defeat ATRAC or Traction control completely on my 460…. the variable aspect of MTS in controlling ATRAC aggressiveness probably has helped mitigate that IMO. I did try years back to defeat all when I first got my GX (didn’t know how anything worked with AWD system on rig) and quickly realized it put me in a simple open diff 4WD vehicle and lots of wheel spin that didn’t get me anywhere.

 

[Banandalorian]

^ Mud/Sand MTS mode, center diff locked, and keeping it in a lower gear are definitely the way to go for deeper snow or on ice/very slippery stuff whether you are 4H or 4L. I learned that off roading in the snow last winter when I also learned that half-worn Pirelli Scorpions stop working in the snow and ice. The other MTS modes are all meant to limit wheel spin and the difference is basically how quickly and/or aggressively ATRAC will clamp down on a wheel. Mud/Sand allows for a lot of wheelspin and uses ATRAC to try and keep all 4 wheels spinning close to the same speed.

If nothing else, the reason a Subaru feels better on snowy/icy roads than a GX is because the Subaru weighs literally a ton less than a GX. You're never more aware that despite its trick sway bars and oddly good weight distribution, the GX is still a 5500lb body on frame truck than when you are going through an icy off-camber turn or braking down a hill.

 

[Hiluxforever]

I thought I’ve heard the Subarus of “now” you really need a manual transmission to get the AWD system of “old” and the CVT ones are neutered in comparison to the older versions. Timeframes I don’t know.

I constantly hear from Subaru friends.. I don’t need snow tires since the AWD system is so good. That’s fine for the go.. but many don’t understand the stopping is arguably more important. I’ve never had a Subi myself.. almost bought an 83 Turbo wagon when I was a kid though.

The ATTESA-ETS system in my G35x and even the basic Haldex type system in my CX-5 has never left me stuck anywhere but I do attribute a lot to tires.

GX Torsen:
“The torque distribution during straightline driving is 40/60 (front/rear), which is helpful for an appropriate steering response during the initial stage of a turn. During the acceleration stage of a turn, the torque distribution increases in the rear wheel”

460_Transfer_Case_VF4BM PDF - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

A technical document that provides detailed information on the VF4BM transfer case used in four-wheel-drive systems.

www.clublexus.com

Of course 50:50 with CDL locked but I have heard some speculation.. (can’t find documented so far) that 30-53 front and 47-70 front-to-rear are achievable.. again just undocumented speculation that could be wrong

We all probably experience vastly different types of snow at times too. I’m more apt to be in deeper Cascade concrete heavy slush.

It was this way in the late 90s. Stick shifts were 50/50, auto was 90/10.

Also both are viscous couplings with clutches vs a torrent based diff with gears in our trucks and most rear biased AWD or full time 4WD systems

 

[Cold Iron]

I typically use the Mud/Sand MTS mode on my 460 in snow since that is allowed to work in 4H as well. This allows for a lot more wheel spin that full on ATRAC. I’ve never had a reason to defeat ATRAC or Traction control completely on my 460…. the variable aspect of MTS in controlling ATRAC aggressiveness probably has helped mitigate that IMO. I did try years back to defeat all when I first got my GX (didn’t know how anything worked with AWD system on rig) and quickly realized it put me in a simple open diff 4WD vehicle and lots of wheel spin that didn’t get me anywhere.

I think it was because of you I started using Mud/Sand MTS mode in the snow. It works. I don't usually bother to blow my driveway of snow until after the plow goes by at the end of it. And normally back in when I know snow is coming to drive straight out, it is long and steep and also park near the top. Prefer to clean the driveway before driving on it but sometimes I have to just blow through it. The GX will do it without missing a beat.

Like a T shirt said that I wore while on the rock in Hawaii for 6 months Just another chitty day in Paradise

The Taco would often go sideways or get stuck and at first I would defeat ATRAC and traction control. Didn't matter. Neither does sandbags in the bed, weight of topper, etc. The more equal weight distribution of a SUV over the axles trumps any pickup in the snow. And off road for that matter IME.

^ Mud/Sand MTS mode, center diff locked, and keeping it in a lower gear are definitely the way to go for deeper snow or on ice/very slippery stuff whether you are 4H or 4L. I learned that off roading in the snow last winter when I also learned that half-worn Pirelli Scorpions stop working in the snow and ice. The other MTS modes are all meant to limit wheel spin and the difference is basically how quickly and/or aggressively ATRAC will clamp down on a wheel. Mud/Sand allows for a lot of wheelspin and uses ATRAC to try and keep all 4 wheels spinning close to the same speed.

If nothing else, the reason a Subaru feels better on snowy/icy roads than a GX is because the Subaru weighs literally a ton less than a GX. You're never more aware that despite its trick sway bars and oddly good weight distribution, the GX is still a 5500lb body on frame truck than when you are going through an icy off-camber turn or braking down a hill.

Nailed it on the Scorpions

Went through a fair number of tires over 11 years on the Tacoma. Scorpions were the last ones got them right after they came out and the last time I will buy them. First year they were surprisingly good. After that not so much LOL.

 

[Arailt]

Are you saying you lock the center diff in snow/ice? Hummm. Never considered doing that.

I used to lock the center diff in my 470 back in PA anytime there was snow on the ground. Mostly because it turned the traction control off so I could slide around

 

[r2m]

I typically use the Mud/Sand MTS mode on my 460 in snow since that is allowed to work in 4H as well. This allows for a lot more wheel spin that full on ATRAC. I’ve never had a reason to defeat ATRAC or Traction control completely on my 460…. the variable aspect of MTS in controlling ATRAC aggressiveness probably has helped mitigate that IMO. I did try years back to defeat all when I first got my GX (didn’t know how anything worked with AWD system on rig) and quickly realized it put me in a simple open diff 4WD vehicle and lots of wheel spin that didn’t get me anywhere.

Are you limited in MPH when using MTS Mud/Sand mode?
And what I seem to be hearing from all you folks in snow country, that for our GX's, the best setup for driving may be Center Diff Lock "ON", MTS: Mud/Sand

 

[Acrad]

On MTS... you have to engage under 7MPH but can't recall a top speed where it isn't working in 4H

It kind of depends for me on CDL if really curvy snowy/ice road... I don't want to end up in the ditch but on my fairly straight steep and deep drive up to cabin in winter it is definitely CDL on.

 

[snowGX460]

my old 2005 Subaru Legacy GT automatic was a 45/55 split and not the electronically controlled version. it was the 5EAT transmission. that thing with blizzaks (ws-# snow tire, not the LM-# winter performance tire) was an absolute tank in the snow, even lowered.

sigh... my GX wheel order from Japan just got delayed again. they were supposed to arrive this month (after the first delay) and are now slated for early April. i was really looking forward to the new look of the truck. maybe i'll slap an exhaust on there to scratch the mod itch...

 

[Arailt]

my old 2005 Subaru Legacy GT automatic was a 45/55 split and not the electronically controlled version. it was the 5EAT transmission. that thing with blizzaks (ws-# snow tire, not the LM-# winter performance tire) was an absolute tank in the snow, even lowered.

I had a 99 Forester S (parents) in high school. I used to love driving it around on fresh snow, using the parking break to drift around the back roads. I think a lot of it had to do with the confidence the low center of gravity gave me. It beat all of my friends trucks and Jeeps in the snow. Absolute beast with just all-seasons.

 

[Banandalorian]

Are you limited in MPH when using MTS Mud/Sand mode?
And what I seem to be hearing from all you folks in snow country, that for our GX's, the best setup for driving may be Center Diff Lock "ON", MTS: Mud/Sand

I think MTS shuts off above 35mph. Acrad is right that you have to be crawling along below 7 to turn it on regardless of which mode you are selecting. I do wish you could at least select Mud/Sand up to like 15 or 20 since you can use that one in 4 high and being able to flip it on/off on snowy roads without causing a pile up would be nice.

 

[Cold Iron]

Never seen a side-by-side comparison of all three types of tires. That was truly educational, especially for someone as myself who has never known anything but So. Cal.
Yeah, I'm in Tahoe every year, but still it's only a few weeks at a time, not an entire season.
Wonder how my BFG T/A's would preform? My guess, much like the all season.

Come on out to Mn. and you can find out!

Bosch winter proving grounds in Baudette to be exact. It is the largest winter testing track in North America, many auto manufactures use it. Population ~900 including Willie the Walleye.

Honda and several other makers have made commercials there



Before I moved over to the Mn. Arrowhead to camp and hunt would hang out between International Falls and Baudette

When I needed cell reception or supplies would head to Baudette.

 

[Rednexus]

I had a 99 Forester S (parents) in high school. I used to love driving it around on fresh snow, using the parking break to drift around the back roads. I think a lot of it had to do with the confidence the low center of gravity gave me. It beat all of my friends trucks and Jeeps in the snow. Absolute beast with just all-seasons.

I pulled a F150 out of the ditch on a snowy road with my 2000 Forester L. It was a great little car, I still love the way even the N/A EJ25 sounds and how they build good upper-RPM power. It was also small enough to fit down ATV trails, although I did get it high-centered a couple of times. I ran Yokohama Geolandar AT/S tires on it, which were the only ATs available in the 205/70R15 size.

It was my hiking/camping/bike/canoe hauling beater for a full 7 years after it had been retired from daily-driver duties. I sold it to my neighbor when I bought my GX and she made it into a hippie art car - and is still driving it.

 

[Hiluxforever]

Had an EJ22 in my 98 Legacy. Car was a great

It had the 4 speed auto, and someone had toasted the viscous coupling so it was converted to 2wd. Someone just cut the rear driveshaft and every once in a while it would spin up and hit the under side of the car.

 

[MeefZah]

I really dislike the look of the alzetta (sp?) taillights and would rather have the red sport ones. I actually want the pre-14 ones which are just red, not "scarlet", but whatever.

No way I am getting a new set of OEMs for $800, that's insanity. Used ones all have broken tabs and aren't really that cheap anyway. Wrap will wear off pretty quick, I think (I wash my truck daily). Solution: Ebay Chinesium ones for $260 for the pair. God I hope these aren't pieces of s***. They are advertised to fit the Fexus GX460 so I'm sure they'll be fine...

I could not really find any useful info about OEM style aftermarket red Sport taillights on here, FB GXOR, Redditt, ClubLexus. Nothing good but also nothing bad. Ebay has a pretty stout return policy so if they feel cheap and aren't decent, back they go. But man I really want them to be great...

EDIT 1-12-25 I received these and they seem decent. Pics and impressions here, several posts further on in this thread:

GX460 & GXOR B.S. thread

I'm late to the party for Subaru Chat, but having owned 6 different Subarus with 6 different drivetrains there isn't really a "rule" for these and "symmetrical" means nothing but a marketing slogan. The worst I had in the snow was my SVX with the aforementioned 90/10 torque split. The best was...

forum.ih8mud.com

OEM part numbers to pull search data:

PN: 81561-60841 / 2010-2013 Left (Red)
PN: 81551-60A01 / 2010-2013 Right (Red)
PN: 81561-60B11 / 2014-2021 Left without Sport Package (Clear)
PN: 81551-60B31 / 2014-2021 Right without Sport Package (Clear)
PN: 81560-WY030 / 2017-2021 Left with Sport Package - (Red)
PN: 81550-WY040 / 2017-2021 Right with Sport Package - (Red)

 

[BigSwede]

I really dislike the look of the alzetta (sp?) taillights and would rather have the red sport ones. I actually want the pre-14 ones which are just red, not "scarlet", but whatever.

Sometimes people sell 'em here. I bought a set of red 2013 taillights here for my 2018 a few years ago, definitely like them better than the Altezza style (Which I still have in a box and would sell cheap, BTW ).