Got a line in a M416 trailer, another hole to dump money into?

[rutbeer]

Couple of things I can throw in to the mix here. The pintle hitch can be bought as a flat plate design, then an adjustable mount for it to bolt to. Stay away from the ball one's though...too much noise back there on the trail.
Okay, so having had a Canadian version of this trailer for some time now, I can say they are "neat" but not a great trailer out of the gate. To really be useful, it needs to have a tail gate in it or at least a dump feature for hauling landscape stuff. I made a gate for mine and I don't regret it at all. I also put a fold up wheel on the front for moving it around and that makes it much nicer because the boogers are HEAVY.
You can put a tremendous amount of weight in the CND versions, but I don't know about the us version. These trailers are HEAVY even unloaded. My v6 exploder knew it was there and my 40 does too. It's not too bad once up to speed, but you will feel it on hills. Off road, they bounce like the dickens....the springs are just so stiff. Maybe you can change shocks or remove a spring leaf to make it better. You would need to really have the trailer full to keep it tracking smooth back there otherwise.
Backing up on the trail is a PITA. Scary really....I don't like doing it at all. It's difficult to back one of these on pavement because they are so short. The good thing is that they track very close to the truck, so if the truck makes a turn, it's likely the trailer will find the path too. (Read: no real reason to swing wide on turns) Some people have retrofitted an extendable tongue, which I have considered doing as well.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Couple of things I can throw in to the mix here. The pintle hitch can be bought as a flat plate design, then an adjustable mount for it to bolt to. Stay away from the ball one's though...too much noise back there on the trail.
Okay, so having had a Canadian version of this trailer for some time now, I can say they are "neat" but not a great trailer out of the gate. To really be useful, it needs to have a tail gate in it or at least a dump feature for hauling landscape stuff. I made a gate for mine and I don't regret it at all. I also put a fold up wheel on the front for moving it around and that makes it much nicer because the boogers are HEAVY.
You can put a tremendous amount of weight in the CND versions, but I don't know about the us version. These trailers are HEAVY even unloaded. My v6 exploder knew it was there and my 40 does too. It's not too bad once up to speed, but you will feel it on hills. Off road, they bounce like the dickens....the springs are just so stiff. Maybe you can change shocks or remove a spring leaf to make it better. You would need to really have the trailer full to keep it tracking smooth back there otherwise.
Backing up on the trail is a PITA. Scary really....I don't like doing it at all. It's difficult to back one of these on pavement because they are so short. The good thing is that they track very close to the truck, so if the truck makes a turn, it's likely the trailer will find the path too. (Read: no real reason to swing wide on turns) Some people have retrofitted an extendable tongue, which I have considered doing as well.

Thanks for the info and feedback Barry. I'm right there with you on every aspect of your advise. Its supposed to arrive on Sat and first thing will be to get it sandblasted so I can do a "real" assessment of what its going to take to make it functional.

I know that the "purists" hate having tailgates put on these things but I couldn't agree more that to be really functional, having one will be critical. I'm contemplating putting "barn doors" like our 40 just to be different but I'm sure that once I figure out how much more difficult that will be, I'll revert to the more simple tailgate. And, making an extendable tongue is also on the rough plan.

Regardless, it should be a fun build up since the only limitation is imagination and money. Since money is pretty tight, it will be first about function, then the rest a piece at a time...

 

[southerncruiser62]

Jerry, I like your thought on barn doors, if you need something to work with let me know, I have a set of barn doors from a forty laying around.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Jerry, I like your thought on barn doors, if you need something to work with let me know, I have a set of barn doors from a forty laying around.

Oooh, now that would be a HUGE help. We need to talk...

 

[rutbeer]

I like the barn door idea a lot. I do use my tailgate as a cooking table and a bed extender though, which is nice. Whatever combination you use, be sure to make the latch a tension latch and not a straight up barrel bolt or similar. The military trailers don't have much support for the sides when you cut the gate, so not only did I reinforce the sides, but the tailgate latching in makes it a rigid square once again.

There's one more thing I plan to do with mine and that's to make "stake pockets" at the corners. I want a ladder rack of sorts that goes on top. Something to haul lumber, plywood, etc. where I can distribute the load over the axle better and still have room in the bed for stuff. I hauled some plywood with the gate down and the trailer just about swayed me off the road. No tongue weight is a BAD thing.

 

[Mtbcoach]

I like the barn door idea a lot. I do use my tailgate as a cooking table and a bed extender though, which is nice. Whatever combination you use, be sure to make the latch a tension latch and not a straight up barrel bolt or similar. The military trailers don't have much support for the sides when you cut the gate, so not only did I reinforce the sides, but the tailgate latching in makes it a rigid square once again.

There's one more thing I plan to do with mine and that's to make "stake pockets" at the corners. I want a ladder rack of sorts that goes on top. Something to haul lumber, plywood, etc. where I can distribute the load over the axle better and still have room in the bed for stuff. I hauled some plywood with the gate down and the trailer just about swayed me off the road. No tongue weight is a BAD thing.

I have read that the sides will need some additional support once the "box" has been compromised. And, that makes sense to not use a bolt but something that offers some support/structure to the box.

I'm still trying to figure out how to do the RTT and still be able to remove it and use it as a "hauler". I was thinking some type of stake pockets also that held the frame which I mount the RTT on and swap out for another rack for hauling other stuff. I know that it all sounds complicated but my "vision" is to be able to pick up the frame w/RTT, drop it in/on, bolt it down, load up and go. If want to haul, all I would have to do is remove the frame w/RTT and load up the box and/or put the "load rack" on for longer/wider stuff.

All this while trying to keep the heritage of the M416 somewhat intact...

 

[Mtbcoach]

I asked the seller for pics and the were not very flattering but I went for the sale anyway since I was having such a hard time finding one at a decent price. This just goes to prove that seeing in person is very valuable. I'm not saying that I have any regrets, I "only" paid $300 for the trailer as it sits. I just hope there is something left after I get it sandblasted next week.

The owner claims that its actually an M614 trailer, which is the Marine variant of the M416. He makes this claim due to the loops on both sides, front and rear which were used to pick up the trailer and transport via helicopter. It does have the original placard that I have to try and clean up in order to see of I can verify this. From my reading, it will still have the M416 serial number but have the 614 listed as part of the model number.

I'm not saying there is any rust, I'll let the pictures tell the tale. Bottom line is that it will give me a great deal of experience in fabrication skills and techniques by the time I have the project complete. At least, I'll have an empty canvas to work with, lets just see if I'm a good enough artist to make something of this lump of clay. Greg and Ramon were lucky enough to have witnessed the delivery. I couldn't help but hear the screaming going on inside their heads...Jerry, what the F... are you thinking! But, they were gentle and supportive enough to keep their comments to themselves though I'm sure they were scratching their heads with wonder as they were driving away. That's ok because I'll be bugging them for advise and input which I'm sure they will get sick of quickly.

Enough BS, here is the ugly truth (all the pics can be seen on my Photobucket site)...

 

[southerncruiser62]

Jerry, I did think he's got his work cut out but more than willing to lend a hand. But at the same time price wise you have deal none the less. I hate I kindof ran out as it was being delivered, I do have some ideas pondering and I am sure you do too so don't hesitate to give me a call with your thoughts.

I am glad I left when I did, I am not quite sure I am going to be able to make it back to wherever I ended up, It was an eventful ride none the less as I watched a plan land about 40' from me, and yes I was driving at the time. Little did I know it was actually a runway/landing strip....as well as tobacco farm, as well as a storage yard.....

 

[rutbeer]

Holy.....
I suspected something was up with the frame when I noticed the reinforcements on the neck. Well, I have seen worse brought back from the dead.
Do you have a welder?
My opinion is the best way to tackle this is to take it over to the sandblaster and find out what's left. From there, start plasma cutting and welding in replacement parts to whatever design you like. You won't be going for a restoration anyway, so.....
Probably just lop off the whole top rail and then weld on a replacement square tube.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Holy.....
I suspected something was up with the frame when I noticed the reinforcements on the neck. Well, I have seen worse brought back from the dead.
Do you have a welder?
My opinion is the best way to tackle this is to take it over to the sandblaster and find out what's left. From there, start plasma cutting and welding in replacement parts to whatever design you like. You won't be going for a restoration anyway, so.....
Probably just lop off the whole top rail and then weld on a replacement square tube.

I want to get the tub separate from the frame so the blaster can get to most everything above and below. I've got a tentative appointment with the blaster mid-week so I'll be busy tomorrow.

I did finally convince Regina that I "needed" a welder and picked up a Miller 180 w/autoset on Friday. Couldn't afford the plasma though, it'll have to be sawzall and cuttoff wheel for now...

 

[mtweller]

It's a lot of rust, but for $300 I think you are fine. I think you have the perfect project to start burning bead there! Plus, you can really use your creativity on a project like this. As far as help and advice, hell, I'm less than 5 mins up the road!

R

 

[shinton]

Honestly, it doesn't look all that bad!! 90% of the rust is surface, I saw one hole in the floor and the top rail looked rotted thru as well.

Most of the metal there will be very thick/heavy gauge stuff and the sand blasting will take off the surface junk.

As far as the supports for the sides, first thing to do is build the support, weld it in place, THEN cut the doors out!

SCRAP yards are your best friend... we go to a place here in Greensboro and load up on material and the guy comes out, charges us $20 and we are on our way. You can find all sorts of sheets of metal that could be used to replace the flooring as needed, etc.

(which by the way, I bought scrap to just cut up / and re-weld back together / learning how to weld! I have a few pieces left on my workbench still!)

The rear gate / reinforcement I would get a large piece of flat steel, 1/4" thick or maybe 3/16" Basically enough to cover the entire rear/inside of the bed. Then basically weld it to the sides/corners and then when you cut out the "U" shape you cut it out of both the existing rear and the new plate.

You wouldn't have to do it in that order but would keep the sides from having a chance to flex out at all...another option is to put a rachet strap around them in a big loop and then cut out the U and THEN put in the reinforcement...then letting pressure off the ratchet strap.

In either case, keeps the box rigid while doing this / if that is a real concern. We did something similar when restoring the bed/etc on my 72 GMC Jimmy.

But...trailer really doesn't look bad, throw a coat of primer over it after getting back from the sandblaster. (I probably would coat the bottom/underside with bedliner type stuff, either the rollon version or spray it if you know how/have right spraygun)

Sam

 

[Mtbcoach]

Honestly, it doesn't look all that bad!! 90% of the rust is surface, I saw one hole in the floor and the top rail looked rotted thru as well.

Most of the metal there will be very thick/heavy gauge stuff and the sand blasting will take off the surface junk.

As far as the supports for the sides, first thing to do is build the support, weld it in place, THEN cut the doors out!

SCRAP yards are your best friend... we go to a place here in Greensboro and load up on material and the guy comes out, charges us $20 and we are on our way. You can find all sorts of sheets of metal that could be used to replace the flooring as needed, etc.

(which by the way, I bought scrap to just cut up / and re-weld back together / learning how to weld! I have a few pieces left on my workbench still!)

The rear gate / reinforcement I would get a large piece of flat steel, 1/4" thick or maybe 3/16" Basically enough to cover the entire rear/inside of the bed. Then basically weld it to the sides/corners and then when you cut out the "U" shape you cut it out of both the existing rear and the new plate.

You wouldn't have to do it in that order but would keep the sides from having a chance to flex out at all...another option is to put a rachet strap around them in a big loop and then cut out the U and THEN put in the reinforcement...then letting pressure off the ratchet strap.

In either case, keeps the box rigid while doing this / if that is a real concern. We did something similar when restoring the bed/etc on my 72 GMC Jimmy.

But...trailer really doesn't look bad, throw a coat of primer over it after getting back from the sandblaster. (I probably would coat the bottom/underside with bedliner type stuff, either the rollon version or spray it if you know how/have right spraygun)

Sam

Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I took some preliminary measurements and it looks like a set of doors from a 40 is very close to the right dimensions. I'd have to figure out the hardware part but it looks to be a possibility.

I'm hoping to get it dropped off this weekend to be blasted then I'll see what is left of it...

 

[mtweller]

Jerry, let me know if you need to use my trailer. I have a lot going on this weekend and would need to talk beforehand so we could get times etc.

R

 

[Mtbcoach]

Jerry, let me know if you need to use my trailer. I have a lot going on this weekend and would need to talk beforehand so we could get times etc.

R

Thanks Ramon. I'm heading off to Fabco right now to see if I can get enough steel to do my first fabrication of a trailer hitch mount. This won't be a permanent solution, just an excuse to start burning up some metal and get a functional hitch so I can get this thing going in the right direction.

If I can't get something going, I may be in touch. It does look to be towable as it sits, just not legal.

And, you forgot to take home that bag I've got for you...

 

[southerncruiser62]

Jerry, I believe you can place a reflective Farm Triangle on the back of that trailer for temporary use should you need to tow it.

 

[mtweller]

Grrrrrrrrrrr. I did, and I was so stoked. I spent so much time going through the pics when I got home, I spaced. I'll swing by sometime this week if it's cool.

Hijack over.

R

 

[Mtbcoach]

Jerry, I believe you can place a reflective Farm Triangle on the back of that trailer for temporary use should you need to tow it.

Good idea. I'll probably be taking it all the way up to N Raleigh (Perry Creek Rd and 401) since they quoted prices over the phone much better than others I contacted. Its a pitty that some of these businesses don't even call back. The one we talked about this weekend hasn't returned my phone calls/messages. I guess business is good for them...

Grrrrrrrrrrr. I did, and I was so stoked. I spent so much time going through the pics when I got home, I spaced. I'll swing by sometime this week if it's cool.

Hijack over.

R

Most anytime is good, just remember I don't typically get home until around 8pm, after 9 today and Friday due to late night basketball games...

 

[mtweller]

Any updates on the trailer. I need to swing by for a cal, so I could check it out then....but just curious how it's coming.

R

 

[Mtbcoach]

I'm stagnated with the sandblasting. I got the compressor upgraded and installed. Dug out the old "bucket blaster" and it wasn't functioning well. After some troubleshooting, the handle was shot. Went to get a new one and it cost me $40 for a new "kit". Decided to pony up $100 for a new sandblaster instead. But, I can't find any media that will run through it.

According to the manufacturer (after I had to call customer service because all the "cheap" stuff at Northern/Harbor Freight plugged it), I need 80 grit media. Best I can find is 60-80 grit so far. So, I've either got to find a way to get a larger opening for the nozzle or find some 80 grit media. Then, I can get it blasted, evaluate and start working on the frame...