Goal Zero Lithium 1000 > Dual Batteries or >Single Group 31? (1 Viewer)

[Itsky]

So I’m having trouble deciding which direction to go with my 200. Any assistance would be great!

Needs:
- I take a few, 7-14 day camping trips a year, where we stay in the same spot usually 2-3 nights at a time
- Power my ARB 50 qt, Nikon and Fuji camera batteries, phones and iPad with moderate use

Options:
1. Single Group 31 AGM battery in stock location + Anti-Gravity Lithium Jumper
2. Goal Zero Lithium 1000 + Anti-Gravity Lithium Jumper
3. Dual Battery Kit using Slee trays, switching stock and auxillary positions such that group 31 deep cycle is in stock location, and starting battery is in Slee 2nd tray + Anti-Gravity Lithium Jumper
* Supplementing any of the above with “adequate” solar

Concerns:
- There are many great threads on here, many of which report issues with the stock alternator adquetely charging AGM batteries
-Would prefer as simple, as light as possible

Thoughts:
- I was going down the route of option #1, I bought the Slee group 31 tray, but this will give me only about 50ah (+solar), I’m a bit worried about having fridge run off starting battery, and is my alternator going to work well with AGM?
- Option 2 seems the simplest, plus has some nice features. The goal zero 1000 lithium price is $800 + $250 for their solar, if I choose I need it. Since it’s lithium, wont this give almost double the usable aH as compared to the single AGM?
- Option 3, is the more traditional “overland” setup, and what I had in my 4Runner, but it will be most expensive, and heaviest, and most complex.

What route should I go?

Thanks,

 

[indycole]

What's your appetite for doing a bit of driving during those periods where you're camping in the same spot for 3 days in order to charge the batteries?

 

[Overland Tailor]

@Itsky - Another option might be the National Luna Aux Battery Box as this would not require a full dual battery setup.. Can fit up to a 115 amp/hour battery...

I can tell you that my ARB 50qt would probably not go a full 3 days without some supplemental charging and while I carry a NOCO GB40 Jump Pack, I don't want that to me my only backup plan.

Looks like you do a fair amount of camping (7-14 Trips) and having a true dedicated dual system might pay dividends. Understand that the alternator issues is the same for any series truck with AGM batteries. The alternator maintains an AGM battery, but will not fully charge one to its true potential. I would recommend that if you run an AGM battery you have a charger that has a AGM profile and you maintain that battery every day on that charger when the truck is not in use.


I think that @LandCruiserPhil has had great results with single battery setup (Group 31) and jump pack... Phil also does a huge amount of overnight / multi-day trips. His experience and insight might help you with a decision regarding a single battery setup.

Personally, I've gone to a dual setup and would do a dual setup again, but one thats more simple...

Battery Box Below:

Auxiliary Battery Box

Cheers -

John

 

[blatant]

@Overland Tailor or @LandCruiserPhil or folks. So you're saying if I'm a several day camper or just a general user, that using an AGM, the battery is never going to be up to par ( fully charged ), regardless of vehicle use, since the alternator simply can't charge it fully? What if I drive 500 miles at once? Curious. What if a bigger alternator? Solar trickle charger? Testing show's 13.2-4 after a few days sitting...

Asking b/c I went with one, simply thinking that type of battery was the best bet. They certainly are not the least expensive.

 

[Itsky]

What's your appetite for doing a bit of driving during those periods where you're camping in the same spot for 3 days in order to charge the batteries?

Good question, usually, we would be doing at least some driving during those 2-3 day spans. But, not always. For example, we camped at Bryce for days last spring, and we barely drove anywhere, just hiking and biking.

 

[Itsky]

@Itsky - Another option might be the National Luna Aux Battery Box as this would not require a full dual battery setup.. Can fit up to a 115 amp/hour battery...

I can tell you that my ARB 50qt would probably not go a full 3 days without some supplemental charging and while I carry a NOCO GB40 Jump Pack, I don't want that to me my only backup plan.

Looks like you do a fair amount of camping (7-14 Trips) and having a true dedicated dual system might pay dividends. Understand that the alternator issues is the same for any series truck with AGM batteries. The alternator maintains an AGM battery, but will not fully charge one to its true potential. I would recommend that if you run an AGM battery you have a charger that has a AGM profile and you maintain that battery every day on that charger when the truck is not in use.


I think that @LandCruiserPhil has had great results with single battery setup (Group 31) and jump pack... Phil also does a huge amount of overnight / multi-day trips. His experience and insight might help you with a decision regarding a single battery setup.

Personally, I've gone to a dual setup and would do a dual setup again, but one thats more simple...

Battery Box Below:

Auxiliary Battery Box

Cheers -

John

Thanks John, I hadn’t previously considered the battery box idea. Looking into a bit, I’m not sure it’s a better option than that Goal Zero though. Side to side, the goal zero seems to be about 60% the size and half the weight, perhaps about 50% more useable amp hours (?), can use solar, offers more functions. $325 + ~$300 for a battery puts me at about the same cost.

Poor wording on my part, I usually take 2-3 trips a year, that are 7-14 days long, and a few long weekends. So I’m definitely not getting out as much as many on this forum.

Thoughts?

Thanks Again,
Ryan

 

[Overland Tailor]

@blatant Not saying that at all. AGM is the way, but what I’m saying is that it needs properly maintained over time..

My had only been charged by the alternator for 12 months prior and my resting voltage had been reduced to 12.6 volts... basically I’m just about 80% of battery capacity.

That’s why I’ve gone to a dedicated charger for the main battery as well as the house... I also don’t run a group 31 size in the 80 so I can’t comment on what that might do over 3 days but mine wouldn’t do 3 days...

Hope that helps....

 

[eatSleepWoof]

You can buy your own lithium batteries and a cheap ($30-50 on Amazon) battery box, or even make one out of plywood. Failing that, I'd absolutely go with your option #2.

I ran dual batteries in my Tacoma. It worked great, but it was a considerable amount of extra cost, weight, and complication for what amounted to being little gain (for me). I have no interest in doing that again.

The aux 50ah battery I had was able to keep my ARB 63QT fridge (in their insulating cover) running for about 24hours (in Death Valley temperatures). Keep in mind that traditional, deep-cycle batteries only provide roughly half their rated ah as usable energy, so the fridge used about 25ah per 24hrs. A lithium battery that's rated at 50ah will give you considerably more usable ah (something like 80%, if I remember correctly).

I would get that Goal Zero kit, and plug it into your rear 110v while driving. Then I'd supplement it with solar while parked, and run the vehicle for an hour per day to charge it up even more, if necessary.

 

[619TOY]

I'd start with option #1 plus supplemetal solar and transition into option #3 with the same solar as time, money and necessity dictate.

While we have AGM's in the 200, I've had better luck historically with flooded batteries, both life expectancy and premature failures, so AGM's certainly aren't any necessity.

 

[indycole]

I've never been able to get my X2 Power Group 31 AGM above 75% charged regardless of the amount of driving. I have to hit with a charger to fully charge and condition it. I do still prefer a 75% full AGM to 100% lead acid for offroad driving just based on past failures. One note here, though, is that folks with a pre 2016 may be able to get more charge out of their AGM by installing one of those modified ALT-S fuses to fool the alternator to putting out more voltage.

I also never got a full charge on my Group 35 Odyssey aux battery out of the Blue Sea ACR. The Redarc BCDC does an excellent job fully-charging the Odyssey, though. The Group 35 Odyssey easily makes it through 24 hours of powering the fridge, OBW pumps, charging stuff, a bit of camp lighting, etc. but there's no way it'd last more than 36 hours without some actual driving (not just idling the truck). I could potentially stretch to to two days if needed. I have an Anderson plug for solar panels but haven't been on a trip yet where I'm stationary enough to need it. I guess the current setup works well enough it's just frustrating that I can't get a full charge on the primary.

With the amount of complexity and expense you'd need for a dual battery system that actually charges all the way, I'd definitely consider seeing how far you can get with a lithium battery (Goal Zero setup) inside the vehicle plus a solar panel for charging it. I can see you running the battery down if you roll into camp with 75% of 50% of a single 100ah battery.

 

[Markuson]

After two defective type 31 Interstate AGMs, I’m currently running two identical Oddyssey 35’s. Best results yet. Looks funny due to small 35 under Slee’s type 31 bracket...but it’s working far better. I do also run the ALT-S fuse tweak...and regularly tend the batteries at home.

 

[TeCKis300]

@Itsky, you’re definitely asking the right questions. And getting a lot of answers depending on perspectives. It’s no wonder because as simple as a battery might seem, there’s complicated integration issues. Some fundamental issues that people are ignoring. I’ll give you the my interpretation as an avid camper/RV’er, and engineering judgement.

Firstly, I think it’s important to acknowledge some major drivers and constraints:

1) AGM is not compatible with the factory alternator/charging system (voltage too high). Nor is it compatible with underhood temps (compounding the voltage problem and prematurely “cooking” nice batts). If one is selecting AGM, it should be remotely located outside of the engine bay. Flooded lead acid batts should be used in the engine bay and when tied to the engine electrical system as that is what it’s designed to charge. Cheap, durable, and proven.

2) Who wants to “plug-in” a car regularly? I refuse to do this even for my RV. Wouldn’t it be nice if it maintained itself?

3) KISS – less cost, more reliability, ease of install

4) Redundancy for starter batt – game changer today is the lithium jump battery.

5) Maximize usable amp-hours

6) Weight – people often dismiss this. Many will at some understand after building up their rig to full weight the compromise to handling, efficiency, capability, durability, etc. It should always be considered.

If dual onboard batts is a must because of lots of built in onboard accessories, I would do this documented here - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/kiss-dual-battery-upgrade.1110226/#post-12070553

If one’s setup is more modular and can utilize a portable batt, that is absolutely the way I would go. Ease of setup. Ease and flexibility of use. More usable amp hours. As expensive as they are for even the premium Goal Zero brand, I’d say they’re actually cost competitive compared to a built-in dual battery system with all the wiring/chargers/relays/fuses/batts. Many include a nice built in inverter too.

Upgrade to a single group 31 deep-cycle flooded lead acid starter battery to maximize reserves for vehicle lighting, etc. Though I would first upgrade to LEDs as it’s always better to conserve than to upgrade reserves.

Buy a lithium jump starter battery as mitigation for starter battery depletion.

If you need the ability to extend your reserves, buy a matching Goal-Zero solar panel that can be moved around out from under shade.

 

[Markuson]

I “plug in” my truck simply because the fridge runs 24/7 and also because I keep a number of items plugged in inside the truck to charge via 12v (wireless Warn remote, headlamps, various lithium batteries, small vacuum (think Baja sand removal before sleeping in back or popping an EXPED). Otherwise...it would be fine with only occasional battery tending—which I’d frankly recommend no matter what battery you run.

Before I had my fridge...my truck sat for 3 months...on two AGMs...with multiple lighted USB outlets lit the entire time. When I got home...I reached in to start the truck and boom. Fired right up as strong as ever via AGMs despite the long, slow leeching. That was eith zeri battery tending, and zero engine time.

But meh... Maybe the entire 4x4 world is doing it all wrong with AGMs...

 

[Itsky]

Thank you all for the experiences and opinions!

I went with option #2, the Goal Zero Yeti Lithium 1000. I will leave my starter battery stock, and my Anti-Gravity XP-10 will serve as a backup for jump starting.

A few notes, I called Goal Zero and they sold me the Yeti for $800 (+tax & shipping = $900). They will be releasing two products that may be of interest, (1) a 12V charging cable for lithium Yetis, and (2) a 12v fridge regulating cable for people whose fridges have issues running off the lower voltages that the lithium yetis make when ~30% discharged.

I’m super pumped on this modular unit, it’s got 96 aH, so it should run my ARB 50 for a few days. I’m curious how it will charge off my LCs inverter and if I need the 12v charging cable.

I’ll report back once I get it.

Thanks Again!

 

[coleAK]

No sure I’m complicating things here but. On my camper I put in a basic battery+inverter+solar. I looked seriously at the goal zero when I did. I ended up going with two 6v golf cart batteries, 300w of solar, charge controller, and two outlet inverter. all for <$800. I can camp for a week easy with this set up. I also take a 2000w generator as a back up if it looks like weather will be an issue with the solar. Solar is going to be key no matter what direction you go. Depending on what latitude and region you live in 200-300w minimum. I’m adding another 300w this summer.

 

[coleAK]

I just saw you went with the GZ. It will do well. See my previous comment about solar panels.

 

[Sandroad]

I the spirit of happily spending other folks money, here’s what I’d do, based on your intended use. I’d go with option 2 and supplement with solar. Specifically:


-Make sure you have a good flooded battery in the truck. If you intend to use lights or outlets in the truck while camping, get a group 31 flooded deep cycle to fit the tray you bought. Otherwise, a good 27F flooded is fine too.


-Get the Goal Zero Lithium 1000 for the fridge, cameras, and screens


-Get a NOCO Genius GB70 (at least) , or equivalent, for emergency starts. This should already be in your truck anyway!


-Get a foldable or flexible (I use a Renogy 100 flexible panel to save weight) solar panel with some long wires to put in the sun when camping. This will supplement the Goal Zero battery to keep the fridge running indefinitely.


Then, manage things carefully:


—limit open time for the fridge, keep it in the shade, and buy an insulated cover if available.


—discipline yourself to use only the power that’s needed; change all lights to LED, use only necessary lights, charge your screens when driving around, don’t use anything else camping that take power (water pumps, etc.)


—Volts times amps equals watts. One amp for one hour is one amp-hour. From this, you can do all the calculations necessary, if needed. (and I think you already know that a deep cycle lead-acid battery should not normally be discharged more than 50%).

 

[indycole]

With all this talk about Group 31 FLA, I'd love to see a recommendation for a specific battery. I found a few Deka farm models (usually awesome batteries) that may work? I tried to go this direction out of my own frustration but stuck with the AGM.

 

[Markuson]

Good advice on power use in camp.
My charge stations in my vehicle are now all switched...so I can leave chargeable items plugged in...but switch off their outlets when not driving—even though they are capable of charging whether truck is on or not.

Fridge power can be all over the map, too, depending on how cold you need it compared with ambient temps.

NOCO is a great jumper.
-Great shelf life between charges (my 150 sat for months and still showed full charge).

 

[Cruiser17]

It won’t charge off the LC inverter. Since the GZ Lithium 12v charging cable is not yet available I use a Dewalt inverter. Works great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y549WB9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1