Glowsystem HJ45 12volt - advice (1 Viewer)

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Hi

Thank you very much for your nice words about my build! I really appreciated!

I just ordered the glow plugs at a Land cruiser dealership - euro4x4parts.com - and that didn't tell me anything about the part numbers or anything else. Just that they should be the correct ones!

It is a 1979 model.

Regarding the glow indicator I am 100% sure that is has been "rebuild" changed. It seems much shorter=less loops than a stock, so it will glow faster. The picture is taken after 14-16 secs. I will try and order a new OEM if that is possible.

it is getting pretty hot :D
 
It is a 1979 model.

That's interesting because the square-type bezel appeared in 79 and your bezel has rounded ends.

But regardless of whether it is 78 or early 79, the HKT catalogue I have says that PT104 plugs are the correct ones.

..Regarding the glow indicator I am 100% sure that is has been "rebuild" changed. It seems much shorter=less loops than a stock, so it will glow faster. The picture is taken after 14-16 secs. I will try and order a new OEM if that is possible.

it is getting pretty hot :D

But if your controller has been tampered with then we really don't know what plugs will now make your preheat perform best (while remaining reliable).

I think that controller in your pic is glowing far too hot! (In other words I think the wire it is made of is at risk of melting/blowing.)

And if it took only 14-16 seconds to get that way, then I doubt it's giving your plugs sufficient time to glow properly.

The match between controller and plugs is rather a delicate balance in my opinion.

The Toyota EPC lists 19850-68030 (8.5V) plugs with a 28550-47021 controller for a 78/79 12 volt HJ45.

And here's a link to buying an aftermarket controller:

http://www.4x4world.com.au/shopping/product_details.modal.php?wt=m&product_id=5524

4x4 World in Australia are great to deal with from my experience too. (I ordered a "wheelbearing nuts/tab-washer set" from them just before Xmas. The package hasn't arrived so I emailed them and this was their reply a short time later:


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
----- Original Message -----
From: info@4x4world.com.au
To: *********
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Order (633283-121.73.45.39): Order and Payment Confirmation

Tom,

Yes to confirm that this has been shipped. It was sent out on the 02/01/2014 (when we returned from our Christmas break).

We would have expected you to have this by now. We will resend you another kit, but this time via registered international post so we can track it. You should have it by the end of next week.

We apologise for any inconvenience and If there are any other issues or if there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

How's that for good service?

:beer:
 
Hi again

It is a 1978 model, but properly registered in 1979 in Denmark. I will buy a new indicator, but being one in AU will cost me to much in taxes and shipping :)

Regarding the service - they properly forgot to send you anything and then they seem like real nice people offering to send you the unit you already pay for :) sounds like a good service :)
 
Hi Jesper,

Your controller glows way too bright. Don't you smell the paint burning up?
It should look like this, which is the same as Tom posted
Glow controller on.webp
If you can't find #28550-47021
controller BJ40 till-80.webp

You can look for #28550-47040
controller BJ40 80-later.webp

This is the controller used in the 12V HJ47.
The difference is that it has a cover.

Can you take the controller out and show us a pic from the top where the part number is stamped? I'm very curious what number shows up.

Rudi

Glow controller on.webp


controller BJ40 till-80.webp


controller BJ40 80-later.webp
 
...Regarding the service - they properly forgot to send you anything and then they seem like real nice people offering to send you the unit you already pay for :) sounds like a good service :)

Oh ye of little faith :D
 
I don't understand why Toyota made such a heating device in the dashboard, all these wires with huge current, a simple light would have been enough.
Why did anyone approve on making a toaster in a dashboard :D
 
okay guys

This is what I got from Toyota and tomorrow I will change it…

You're lucky.

I don't think any genuine Toyota controllers remain available for 4 cylinder B-series engines.

It should be just starting to go red after 15 seconds of preheat and produce a glow just like mine after 20 seconds (based on the information provided in Owners Manuals and based on the performance of mine).

These days I keep mine energised for 25 seconds (before cranking) and try never to exceed that.

If you find your glow times to be much different from this, then I'd recommend swapping in the PT104 plugs (or their equivalent ... from that list I posted) instead of using those PT100 plugs.

:beer:
 
Hi guys

It is the same… So I will try and write the supplier an email and see if they are aware of this. I guess there must be a difference to the plugs then!
 
Just searched for other posts you've made and found your AMAZING build thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/737403-my-hj45-project-denmark.html

:clap:

I think this is best build thread I've ever set eyes on!! Really!

What I was looking for was information on your truck's date of birth and history relating to your glow controller.

Is it maybe 1977 or 1978 build date..

HKT make two different 8.5V plugs for these old diesels so I wonder why you went for PT100?
View attachment 852671
(The above pic has been uploaded from your build thread)

Their catalog that I have says you should be running the PT104 part number rather than the PT100 but to be truthful, I don't know exactly what the differences are..

View attachment 852673

And how many seconds did it take to get your controller that hot?

Here are our two glow controllers side by side:
View attachment 852675View attachment 852676

I wonder if yours is standard or whether it has been modified/repaired over the years?

It looks so bright I wonder if you are at risk of burning it out?


:beer:

PS. The above photo of mine was taken after about 20 or 25 seconds of preheat.

It seems like they are different! there are more "steel" loops in yours? so couldn't that be a reason also? more resistance?
 
I don't understand why Toyota made such a heating device in the dashboard, all these wires with huge current, a simple light would have been enough.
Why did anyone approve on making a toaster in a dashboard :D

I think safety aspects relating to the high-current wiring and relating to having red-hot metal inside the cab were behind why Toyota stopped using glow controllers.

And also (as we're maybe finding here) there is the problem of getting the delicate balance correct between "controller" and "plugs" where any changes by plug manufacturers can easily inhibit glow controller performance.

But glow controllers have a massive "coolness factor" don't you reckon (and are worth every bit of the effort of fiddling around to get them working right)?

Hi guys

It is the same… So I will try and write the supplier an email and see if they are aware of this. I guess there must be a difference to the plugs then!

It seems like they are different! there are more "steel" loops in yours? so couldn't that be a reason also? more resistance?

Damn! So your new controller also glows too brightly and too fast (same as your old one)?

I didn't mean to imply yours should have the same number of turns as mine. Sorry if I misled you on that.

I was more concerned with the brightness of your old controller than on its number of turns. (Although the reduced turns and nature/appearance of those turns did make me suspicious that it may have undergone a home-repair at some stage and been shortened.)

Mine is designed for a 4 cylinder and yours for a 6 cylinder. So this 50% increase in the number of plugs means your current draw will be 50% greater too. (Around 60A instead of my 40A.)

So your glow controller will need only half the resistance (since it is wired in series with parallel-wired plugs and thus takes their overall current flow) to drop your busbar to around 8.5V. So it does make sense for it to have less turns.

And all this has prompted me to do more research on HKT plugs..

Here's a cut-an-paste I've just done to place your PT100 plug alongside a PT104 plug:
PT100PT104comparoA.webp

I was thinking the dimensions of the two plugs were the same and that therefore
there must be a difference in their performance/current-draw.

But the above image-comparison suggests the terminal threads are different!

Unfortunately the HKT catalogue I have only supplies the dimensions for the PT104 plug so until I did this image-comparison i didn't notice:

DimPT104.webp

So can you confirm that your PT100 dimensions are the same as shown above for the PT104 except for the terminal thread being M5 as opposed to M4?

Interestingly, the original plugs for my 1979 BJ40 had an M5 thread so my busbar holes are sized for that.

Up until now, I thought plugs with the M5 thread were obsolete and no longer made!

So now, rather than thinking your PT100 plugs are wrong, I'm thinking perhaps I should be running them too?

But then this doesn't explain why your controller is glowing too fast and too brightly...

Perhaps trying a completely different brand of 8.5V plug is the way to go now? Sorry... I'm unsure..(but still reluctant to suggest moving away from original spec. plugs)...

I've been lucky with my glow controller but quite a few people have been having problems like you.. Except it seems to be more common for their controllers to fail to glow or glow too dimly, rather than glowing overly fast and glowing too bright.

:beer:

PT100PT104comparoA.webp


DimPT104.webp
 
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Hi Tom

Yes the PT100 has 5mm thread terminals.

I will try and contact the company and ask them if there are sure they are the correct plugs and attaché some of the images from this thread.
 
I did a lot of Googling on the PT100 and PT104 and could not find any differences.
The only thing that never shows up in the spec lists is the Amp draw.
Maybe that makes the difference?

Rudi
 
Hi Tom

Yes the PT100 has 5mm thread terminals.

I will try and contact the company and ask them if there are sure they are the correct plugs and attaché some of the images from this thread.

I'm keen now to trial those PT100 plugs in my BJ40 JVFB.

If they glow my controller the same as my present ones do, then I'll be able to return to a completely original busbar arrangement (because the terminal connections will once again be M5).

Edit 15 April 2014 - Got hold of my own HKT PT100 plugs and found the terminal thread size to be M4 (same as most other plugs on the market) despite my HKT catalog showing them as M5.

You don't sound the type of person to make this mistake. - But are you really sure your HJ45 is operating on 12V and not 24V? After all, you found 14V plugs in there from the PO and now that we have the correct spec plugs (8.5V for a 12V cruiser) and the correct controller (28550-47021 for a 12V 6cyl cruiser), your controller is now glowing too fast and too hot/bright. (A 24V power source would certainly do this!)

Here is a link to a video I made that shows EXACTLY how my controller and plugs perform in my 12V BJ40:


Note my busbar voltage figures in the second part of that video.

It sure would be interesting to see what yours are!



I did a lot of Googling on the PT100 and PT104 and could not find any differences.
The only thing that never shows up in the spec lists is the Amp draw.
Maybe that makes the difference?

Rudi

My catalogue doesn't show current draw Rudi.

Any chance of posting up pics of those pages you've got?

:beer:

PS. One thing I've learned (from various glow plug threads over the years) is that while most vendors may do their best to sell owners plugs that correctly match their vehicles, the underlying advice they get from plug manufacturers (including HKT ... but HKT to a less degree than say - Bosch) is often incorrect.

I believe too much time has passed since these vehicles rolled off the production line and this has allowed a lot of misinformation to accumulate. (And even Toyota EPC data has serious errors on this topic.)

I'm unsure about these PT100 plugs so I want to try them myself..
 
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I am pretty sure it is a 12v truck. Only one battery bracket/holder. All the electrical components are specified for 12v except the hazard switch - which says 24volt. But I guess it just operates the current no matter the voltage!

So yes I am sure it is correct

I could try and measure the amp draw on a plug and do the same on the controller unit. It should more or less be the same right? In theory the controller is a extra glow plug that indicates how muck glow there is on the plugs?
 
I am pretty sure it is a 12v truck. Only one battery bracket/holder. All the electrical components are specified for 12v except the hazard switch - which says 24volt. But I guess it just operates the current no matter the voltage!

So yes I am sure it is correct

I could try and measure the amp draw on a plug and do the same on the controller unit. It should more or less be the same right? In theory the controller is a extra glow plug that indicates how muck glow there is on the plugs?

No, The controller is in series with all 6 glow plugs and lits up correctly if the sum of all plugs is 6 x 10 = 60 Amps.
glow systems set ups crop.webp

The difference between the PT100 and PT104 is the date that Toyota changed the part number.
HKT PT100 PT104.webp
If I run both numbers through the Toyota EPC it will show that 19850-56021 is pre 1980 and 19850-68030 is 1980 and later.
Since Jespers HJ45 is a 1978/1979 model the correct plug should be PT100 according to the HKT catalog.

And that leaves the question: What is the difference between 19850-56021 and 19850-68030.

Rudi

glow systems set ups crop.webp


HKT PT100 PT104.webp
 
..And that leaves the question: What is the difference between 19850-56021 and 19850-68030.

Rudi

And I'm now thinking the only difference could be the busbar connection thread-size. (M5 for 56021 and M4 for 68030).

In which case, the PT100 plug would be better suited to my 1979 BJ40 too because it originally had the plug on the left (below) fitted by the factory and my busbar holes are designed for this larger M5 thread..

GlowplugsMyBJ40.webp

(Ignore the ohm figures because they were measured with my el-cheapo multimeter and don't mean anything.)

But if the HKT PT100 plugs perform the same as the HKT PT104 plugs (and bearing in mind that Jesper is certain he has a 12V truck) ... why do they glow the controller too fast and too brightly????

So that's why I'm so keen on trying them out. (To see if they do perform the same in my truck ..... as well as to return my truck more completely to its original state...)

But at present the only definite (stock-in-hand) source I can find for those HKT PT100 plugs is the Euro4x4 shop that Jesper used. And shipping four to New Zealand from there would cost me over $200 kiwi dollars :eek:.. So unless I find a much cheaper source - that's the end of that idea.

:idea: But hang on a minute...

Your post has given me an idea Rudi..

What if someone has altered the wiring in Jesper's truck to wire his glow controller in parallel with all his other plugs (instead of the way you've shown it should be)?

That's likely to be Jesper's problem!!!!

(Sorry - I'm slow on the uptake and your post was probably telling him already that he's likely got his wiring all wrong there.)

:beer:

GlowplugsMyBJ40.webp
 
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Sooooo..

Jesper... Our cruisers are roughly the same vintage and therefore their preheat systems should be very similar...

Here is my preheat wiring setup (simplified from the FSM):
Start&GlowWiring.webp

I'd expect yours to be very much the same (except for different part numbers, 2 extra plugs, a more powerful starter motor, and perhaps a few other tiny things)..

You should definitely check that your controller is correctly wired IN SERIES with your "parallel-connected glow plugs" rather than being wired in parallel with them (as though it were an extra glow plug).

:beer:

Start&GlowWiring.webp
 

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