getting 78 running

[takgt]

Hi all,
I bought a 78 a while ago and towed it home.
I was told that the thing sat for a long time and a friend of theirs decided to try and start it with the old gas and old filter.
The po also said that it ran great before she parked it.

I rebuilt the carb, replaced the fuel lines (just using a plastic gas can for now because the tank is bad) cap, plugs, rotor, vacuum lines.
The first issue is that the starter makes a clunk noise when I just turn the swi key to the first click on the switch.
It also makes a clunk noise when I turn it off. Like the starter is getting juice.
The starter relay is getting hot as well as the igniter assy.

From the looks of it someone has indeed tried to get it running-- striped out nuts on the carb studs, rounded over distributor bolt ect.
At this point I don't know if the new vacuum lines are in the right place because I just replaced them as I took them off.
I have gotten the engine started but it took a lot of time cranking. It sputtered and back fired through the carb. It would not idle or run on it own.
I have checked plug wires and I think the dizzy is set . I need to make a crank so I can make this easier.

I have the #1 piston at top and rotor pointing to #1 on cap and timing mark aligned, is this close enough to try and start?
I really need to fix the electrical issue before I continue on to the rest.
Thanks for any help or advice.

 

[cdtb]

Hopefully this helps with the vacuum lines, I also hv a 78 Fj40

 

[takgt]

Thanks,
Where did you get that?
Mine is federal not Calif. My VSV only has seven posts.

 

[cdtb]

Specter-off-road; another pic hopefully you can use this pic, not sure if this is fed or Cali.

 

[cdtb]

Sorry its Calif

 

[takgt]

Thanks,
Any ideas on the electrical problems?

 

[cdtb]

Mine would not idle until the vacuum lines were in the correct places, as for the electrical issues I got nothing, sorry and good luck

 

[edwjmcgrath]

On the electrical problem. Are you sure that the noise is coming from the starter solenoid? If there's another after market solenoid that someone put in there and it is energized in the run position, that might be a normal sound. If the noise is definitely the starter, pull off the wire to the starter solenoid and turn the key to the first position. Did the clunk sound go away? Measure voltage from that terminal to the battery negative. (Should be zero).
While you are there, make sure that there's a ground wire from the starter to the frame and from the frame to the battery negative. Disconnect both of them and clean up the terminals. If you are missing a ground to the engine, you can get odd current backfeeding through other circuits-starter, regulator, ignition.

 

[takgt]

I will give that a try. There are no aftermarket items on the 40.
The wiring has some issues so I will go through some of the connectors and clean up the ground and replace the positive lead. Did the starter come with a ground to frame from factory?
The clunk noise sounds like you just engaged the starter for a second.
I found this hose information diagram but the VSV has different numbers on it.
Mine has seven inlets but the numbering is off a bit. This is the closest one that I could find.
Thanks again

 

[cjgoode]

I think you need a new ignition switch, mine was doing the same thing when you turn the key. People here told me to get a new one, and they were right it was the only choice. I pulled it apart with no luck on fixing it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FJ40-Toyota...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33841e3e9b

Now starter only goes when key is turned all the way. The clunk is likely the starter not getting enough juice or you motor not wanting to turn over. Do you have a good fully charged battery on it? But it will still likely try and start as soon as you turn the key to the accessory or on position.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Oh......if it sounds like you've engaged the starter briefly, then I agree that it likely is the ignition switch.
Pretty common problem and simple fix. I got mine from cruiser corps.

Edit: And yes, the starter should have a ground to the frame, near where the battery negative connects to the frame.

 

[takgt]

thanks for the replies.
I went to the parts store to get new battery cables and the guy looked them up and I bought them and brought them home.... the positive was fine but the negative was too short. I will order that switch and install when it gets here.
I went into work and blasted some parts and made a tool to turn the engine over.It should make things easier for this as well as adjusting lifters.

 

[takgt]

The ignition switch arrived today.
Easiest fix so far. Took all of ten minutes to replace.
Works great. Thanks for the help.
I have a sep 78 and need the vacuum line diagram.
The one that I posted is very good but the numbers on mine are different.
Is there a way to cross reference the numbers on mine?
My numbers are: 1,3,4,7,11,12,14.
When I do a google search I get close but still have not found the correct one.
Thanks for all of you help.

 

[takgt]

Well I got it running.....sort of. I am pretty sure that I got all of the vacuum hose installed correctly.
It took a lot of cranking to start.
I ended up turning the idle adjust screw all the way in to keep it running while I got out of the vehicle to manually rev the engine.
It constantly backfired while accelerating, and idled rough.
I let it idle a while with the choke half closed. When I pushed the choke all the way in it died.
While it was idling I sprayed carb cleaner around the base of the carb and it backfired and sputtered.
Lastly I checked the compression while the motor was hot.
The readings were a consistent 70 psi. I bought a new compression tester from harbor freight. Is it possible that the compression is 70 psi and it still runs?
I have been squirting MMO in the cylinders for the last few months and turning over the motor without trying to start.

 

[sggoat]

For the vacuum line diagram--go to ToyoDYI.com, register(you can't see the diagrams if you don't) They have most of the OEM diagrams listed--- a great resource--part numbers included

 

[takgt]

Thanks,
I went and registered but there is a note that they no longer have the diagrams because toyota asked then not to supply.
Anyway, I went out and adjusted the lifters, they were at .015" and .020" respectfully.
I adjusted them like the book said.
It didn't really change the idling that much.
The thing will still not idle without the choke half closed.
I hooked up the compression gauge and the cylinders have improved to 90 psi.
I hooked up a vacuum gauge and the reading was a pretty steady 10.
Could the rings be bad at 145k?
While messing around with the timing I noticed that the inside of the distributor cap on the contacts there is white build up.
What is causing this? It was a brand new cap with about 45 minutes of use, Idling.
I am not sure what I can do next. Any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Compression will be lower if you're not doing the test at operating temp. Also, another cause of low compression measurements is if the choke and throttle plate are not fully open when you do the test.

That said, my gut feeling is that you've got something messed up on either the carb or timing settings or have a big vacuum leak.
If you just set the timing in the ballpark with the rotor pointing toward 1, start it up and see if you can improve the idle by turning the distributor a little bit. Often, backfiring and poor running are caused by timing that is way off.
On the carb, start with the basics. Is there fuel in the bowl (should be in the middle of the window). Is the idle solenoid getting powered and working? When you say you adjusted the idle screw, was that the mixture or idle speed screw? How is the idle mixture screw set? Should be a couple of turns out from all the way in.

 

[takgt]

Thanks for the help,
I have let the engine heat up to operating temp.
The timing is set so that the bb is lined up with the indicator pin.
I have rotated the dist both directions with some change but not a huge improvement.
The fuel in the sight glass is in the middle.
I think that the carb or vacuum leak is most likely.
What would explain the dist cap going bad so fast?
The idle speed is set mostly all the way in (to keep it running) the mixture doesn't seem to change anything when I back it all the way out. I started with it one and a half turn from all the way in, just like pin_ Heads video.
I am looking into seeing how to test for manifold leak and test for that.
Does the choke being half way closed compensate for a vacuum leak?
I will check the idle solenoid also.
Thanks Again

 

[edwjmcgrath]

If you're not running at normal idle speed, the centrifugal advance will change the timing, so you can't go by the bb. If it idles better with the distributor turned to one direction, I'd go with that for a start. Once you get it running smoothly and at normal idle, you can set it to the bb.
Similarly with the carb. If the solenoid is not working, then the carb's idle circuit is out of play so you'll need to crank down on the idle speed to get it to idle. Also, if you're running above idle speed the idle mixture screw won't really have an effect. So you need to start by figuring out if it's the idle solenoid.
If it's not that, big vac leaks are the next place to look. Yes, if you have a vac leak, you are running too lean. The choke will compensate for that. A common place for vac leaks (if it's not a hose) is a crack in the intake manifold beneath the carb. It would be very visible if you pull the carb and look down.

Some white buildup is typical on the distributor cap. Hard to tell if it's normal. But for the cost and effort you're putting in on all this, I'd try a new OEM cap and rotor just to rule it out. I doubt that's your problem but you could have gotten a bad one.

 

[takgt]

Well back at it.
Thanks edwjmcgrath.
I thought that the fact that I needed the choke to keep it running was a sign of a vacuum leak, I just figured that it was the carb rebuild or rotten hoses.
I ended up replacing all of the hoses to be sure. They were mostly all cracked and in need of replacing.
This did not take care of the problem.
I decided to remove the manifold.
The first thing I noticed was one missing nut, hard to seal without that. The next problem was the POS....... I mean PO decided to put in the wrong pitch bolt (see pic) when they decided to replace the manifold gasket some time ago. That was the second bolt that was not holding the manifold down. The block might be repairable. I found the same problem with wrong pitched threads when I removed the carb for the first time.
All of the bolts were not very tight.
I could see a sign that the gasket between the intake and exhaust was leaking.
I didn't take a pic before I decided to take the two apart.
The plate was cracked and the gaskets were cracked and in bad shape. I think that I will try and weld the plate together. What would cause this to break?
I will go into work tomorrow and bead blast all of the parts and try and fix the plate. I will also check the flatness of the manifold when I have it cleaned up.
If I have to I will face off the sealing surface.