Are you sure the Toyota starter you tried to put in is the proper starter for your motor?
Gear Reduction Starter! (13 Viewers)
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Are you sure the Toyota starter you tried to put in is the proper starter for your motor?
Assuming you still want the functionality, what has anyone with an older truck done with the ballast resistor bypass wire when switching to a GR starter? It's the smaller diameter BW wire coming out of that harness section, but there's no place for it on the GR starter. It bypasses the resistor only while the starter is cranking.
Can you power it from the big BW wire that runs from the ignition switch to the starter?
No.
Once the engine starts, the voltage going to the coil thru the resistor tries to also feed electricity to the starter, at insufficient voltage to do anything other than kill the engine. But it does fire nicely when cranking.
On older trucks (mine's a '75) the stock wiring harness spits out three wires down near the starter. Two of the wires are Black with White stripe (BW). One of the BW wires is thicker than the other (Big BW). Big BW brings +12v from the key ignition switch, and Small BW takes it from the starter solenoid switch to the (+) coil terminal to by-pass the ballast resistor during cranking. The solenoid switch on the old starter ensured that current was delivered to the (+) coil terminal ONLY when cranking.
The gear reduction starter does not have a terminal for Small BW. It has no solenoid switch for +12v output. When I installed my GR starter several years ago, I just taped-off Small BW's plug and left it dangling. Thus, the GR starter did not supply +12v to the (+) terminal of the coil during cranking. This was never much of a problem for me, perhaps because my battery was very strong, it never gets too cold where I live, or the ignition system was strong enough to plow through the ballast resistance even during cranking.
But lately, I noticed that it didn't start so well in the cold. I studied the wiring diagrams (Haynes mis-labels Small BW as BY in the FJ40 diagrams but gets it right in the FJ55 diagrams. Go figure). I noticed the resistor by-pass circuit and wondered if I could just jumper Big and Small BW to bring +12v to the coil during cranking. I didn't think it would work, but I tried it anyway. It didn't work (see previous 2 posts).
So what's needed is a switch that does the same thing the old starter's solenoid did. A relay is the perfect thing. See First Picture. These are sold as headlight relays at the autoparts houses for about $5.00. You can get them online for under a dollar.
A relay uses one switch to activate another. In this case, I used the +12v from the key switch (Big BW) to turn on the switch (relay) that sends +12v to the (+) coil terminal. (Since it was already there in the harness, I used Small BW to bring the +12v to the solenoid from Big BW down by the starter.) When you let off the key's start position, there's no juice in Big BW, so there's no juice in Small BW, so the relay turns off the circuit that was supplying +12v to the coil. Just like the old starter used to.
I installed the relay to bypass the resistor when cranking, and it starts on less than 1 revolution in 35F weather. Very nice.
How to wire the relay: See Second Picture. Relay terminals are numbered 30, 85, 86, 87 (and 87a, if it's a double throw relay. If yours has 87a terminal, just ignore it).
85 <---> 86 is the circuit that switches the other circuit on. So it needs voltage on one side and a ground on the other. I brought the +12v into terminal 85. I brought it up from Big BW on Small BW. I grounded 86. So when the key is turned to "Start", this circuit is energized and switches the other one on.
30 <---> 87 is the working circuit which is turned on by the other one (85<--->86). +12v needs to come in one side of the relay and go out the other to the (+) coil terminal. Since +12v is right there on 85 anyway, just jumper it over to 30. Wire 87 to the (+) coil terminal.
That's it. You're done, and starting will be even easier because you have both a GR starter and a ballast resistor by-pass circuit that works like Mr. T intended it to work.
The gear reduction starter does not have a terminal for Small BW. It has no solenoid switch for +12v output. When I installed my GR starter several years ago, I just taped-off Small BW's plug and left it dangling. Thus, the GR starter did not supply +12v to the (+) terminal of the coil during cranking. This was never much of a problem for me, perhaps because my battery was very strong, it never gets too cold where I live, or the ignition system was strong enough to plow through the ballast resistance even during cranking.
But lately, I noticed that it didn't start so well in the cold. I studied the wiring diagrams (Haynes mis-labels Small BW as BY in the FJ40 diagrams but gets it right in the FJ55 diagrams. Go figure). I noticed the resistor by-pass circuit and wondered if I could just jumper Big and Small BW to bring +12v to the coil during cranking. I didn't think it would work, but I tried it anyway. It didn't work (see previous 2 posts).
So what's needed is a switch that does the same thing the old starter's solenoid did. A relay is the perfect thing. See First Picture. These are sold as headlight relays at the autoparts houses for about $5.00. You can get them online for under a dollar.
A relay uses one switch to activate another. In this case, I used the +12v from the key switch (Big BW) to turn on the switch (relay) that sends +12v to the (+) coil terminal. (Since it was already there in the harness, I used Small BW to bring the +12v to the solenoid from Big BW down by the starter.) When you let off the key's start position, there's no juice in Big BW, so there's no juice in Small BW, so the relay turns off the circuit that was supplying +12v to the coil. Just like the old starter used to.
I installed the relay to bypass the resistor when cranking, and it starts on less than 1 revolution in 35F weather. Very nice.
How to wire the relay: See Second Picture. Relay terminals are numbered 30, 85, 86, 87 (and 87a, if it's a double throw relay. If yours has 87a terminal, just ignore it).
85 <---> 86 is the circuit that switches the other circuit on. So it needs voltage on one side and a ground on the other. I brought the +12v into terminal 85. I brought it up from Big BW on Small BW. I grounded 86. So when the key is turned to "Start", this circuit is energized and switches the other one on.
30 <---> 87 is the working circuit which is turned on by the other one (85<--->86). +12v needs to come in one side of the relay and go out the other to the (+) coil terminal. Since +12v is right there on 85 anyway, just jumper it over to 30. Wire 87 to the (+) coil terminal.
That's it. You're done, and starting will be even easier because you have both a GR starter and a ballast resistor by-pass circuit that works like Mr. T intended it to work.
I just installed one this morning... I like it. It does sound different, but who cares? It turns the motor over faster. It started instantly.
Oreilly auto parts #16828. Lifetime warranty, $99.99+22.50 core. Only 2 stores in Chicago area had one, so you might have to order it. Nobody else had this unit in stock.
I would guess these are all Nippondenso rebuilt units, no matter where you buy. Nice upgrade!
Oreilly auto parts #16828. Lifetime warranty, $99.99+22.50 core. Only 2 stores in Chicago area had one, so you might have to order it. Nobody else had this unit in stock.
I would guess these are all Nippondenso rebuilt units, no matter where you buy. Nice upgrade!
It's been over a year since this thread has been updated so I thought I'd post my recent experience. Prices have gone up a bit and everything seems to be remanufactured now. Napa had them ranging from $140-160 including core. The non GR starter will probably not qualify as a core. I ended up getting a Toyota reman starter from toyotapartszone for $120 plus shipping. I'm going to hang on to the old one as a spare.
I had to replace the battery cable since it was 6-8" too short to reach the connector which is now on the bottom of the starter vs the top on the non-GR starter. While I was at it, I figured that I might as well replace the starter to frame ground cable. It's a pretty easy job-an hour start to finish (probably would have taken 20 minutes except for the cable work that I had to do.)
It's hard to believe that this little thing that fits in your hand works as well as it does.
I had to replace the battery cable since it was 6-8" too short to reach the connector which is now on the bottom of the starter vs the top on the non-GR starter. While I was at it, I figured that I might as well replace the starter to frame ground cable. It's a pretty easy job-an hour start to finish (probably would have taken 20 minutes except for the cable work that I had to do.)
It's hard to believe that this little thing that fits in your hand works as well as it does.
Never mind...
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If you wire it like this, wouldn't you have resisted voltage (7 to 9 volts) back feeding to the start solenoid when in the run mode? I'm assuming the starters with the extra terminal for resistor bypass have set of auxulary contacts paired up with the starter solenoid contacts. On starters without the extra terminal I'd think you'd need the relay.
Yeah, that's probably a bad idea. I don't think it'd affect the solenoid but the resisted feed to the starter motor is probably a bad thing for the coil wiring. I withdraw my suggestion.
I'm looking at a GR starter to solve my hard starting issues and I've got a 73' F with an external ballast coil. Is there any reason to keep the external ballast coil and go through all of the trouble to put a relay in or can I just put a new coil with a built in ballast on?
just so we're clear then, if i switch to an internal ballast coil i dont need a relay with the GR starter?
Sort of...
If you have an internal ballast coil, then you "can't use" a relay with the GR starter. "Can't use" vs "don't need".
You can't use it because there is no way to feed the full 12v to the coil during cranking, bypassing the resistor. There's nothing to connect it to.
Is your starting problem one of slow cranking or hard to catch and run? If it's the latter, then an internal bypass coil might even make it a little more difficult to start.
If you have an internal ballast coil, then you "can't use" a relay with the GR starter. "Can't use" vs "don't need".
You can't use it because there is no way to feed the full 12v to the coil during cranking, bypassing the resistor. There's nothing to connect it to.
Is your starting problem one of slow cranking or hard to catch and run? If it's the latter, then an internal bypass coil might even make it a little more difficult to start.
Just wanted to add a link to this thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/249017-gear-reduction-starter.html
in this FAQ'd thread, as there's some additional info for a GR swap. (other thread could also be added to FAQ... <hint> )
And add, Denso Reman 280-0117 is the OEM. You can buy on-line from densoproducts.com which is, I believe, a denso reman unit, as opposed to generic-reman'd Denso units. In other words, Toyota-spec vs., say Cardone spec
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/249017-gear-reduction-starter.html
in this FAQ'd thread, as there's some additional info for a GR swap. (other thread could also be added to FAQ... <hint> )
And add, Denso Reman 280-0117 is the OEM. You can buy on-line from densoproducts.com which is, I believe, a denso reman unit, as opposed to generic-reman'd Denso units. In other words, Toyota-spec vs., say Cardone spec
Finally got around to installing the GR starter - Man, what a difference. Did not install the relay for the ballast resistor, but plan to. Runs fine, so far, as is.
Thanks for the wiring pix Mr. Toad!
Thanks for the wiring pix Mr. Toad!
