Gauging Interest in a value-priced 100 Series Metal Drawer System

[TheFuzz]

Some design questions to toss around:

1) Drawer slides are by far the most expensive single component. We're going to go with a minimum of 250lbs rated slides (per pair, evenly loaded). What is the acceptable level of blind space in the back of an extended drawer? While it's possible to go with full extension sliders, these add costs and the leverage arm creates a growing moment as the drawers extend. Would a 10" blind space (the part of the drawer that doesn't fully expose) be acceptable in a 38"drawer that is 10" deep? That would still extend the drawers roughly 4" beyond the lip of the gate. I don't think extending the drawers further buys you anything as you don't gain any reach once it's past the gate.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by 38" drawer that is 10" deep? I know it's late but I was assuming that the 38" dimension was the actual depth of the drawer. [edit: by 10" "depth", that was referring to the HEIGHT of the drawer - no more posting in the middle of the night after work] As for blind space, 10" is fine. You might even be able to get away with a 12" blind space if that buys you enough leverage to downgrade the drawer slides to a lower but still robust level. You aren't losing a whole lot as long as you can easily reach in.

2) Is there any strong desire to have drawer slides with a lock-open feature? The advantage would be drawers that stay put when pointing downhill. Pretty significant cost option as it moves us up a class in drawer slides. Most likely this would be an upgrade option users could select.

This, in some form, is a must have feature IMO...but would it be possible to affix some sort of delrin or composite non-marring, rotating "hook" on the face of the drawer that can catch the tailgate to keep the drawer open? Might be cheaper than getting the locking slides, but I'm not sure if that would pose issues from a design standpoint. Just thinking out loud.

3) How important is it to you to have positionable dividers in the drawers? If important, what's the right number? 2? 3?

I think a minimum of 2 inserts (to create 3 separate compartments) that can be configured by the end user would be a good place to start. Maybe additional inserts could be purchased at an additional cost.

 

[re_guderian]

Full width, or modular left and right?

Typos sent from my HTC EVO using the IH8MUD app...

 

[Copenhagen1]

I think 10" of blind space in a 38" drawer is acceptable. I don't think you have to have full extension slides.

I agree with Fuzz about the "stop". It does need to have some sort of way to "stop" the drawer open when you are parked downhill.

If you include 2 dividers with each drawer, you would be able to have 3 - 12" compartments. That would really limit access to the 10" blind space if you only had 2" to get your hand in there. If you decide to include 2 dividers with each drawer, you should keep that in mind when determining where the slots will be installed.

 

[pfran42]

Some design questions to toss around:

1) Drawer slides are by far the most expensive single component. We're going to go with a minimum of 250lbs rated slides (per pair, evenly loaded). What is the acceptable level of blind space in the back of an extended drawer? While it's possible to go with full extension sliders, these add costs and the leverage arm creates a growing moment as the drawers extend. Would a 10" blind space (the part of the drawer that doesn't fully expose) be acceptable in a 38"drawer that is 10" deep? That would still extend the drawers roughly 4" beyond the lip of the gate. I don't think extending the drawers further buys you anything as you don't gain any reach once it's past the gate.

I think a 10" bind space is acceptable.

2) Is there any strong desire to have drawer slides with a lock-open feature? The advantage would be drawers that stay put when pointing downhill. Pretty significant cost option as it moves us up a class in drawer slides. Most likely this would be an upgrade option users could select.

Definitely want to be able to "lock" them in a full open position.

3) How important is it to you to have positionable dividers in the drawers? If important, what's the right number? 2? 3?

High on the wish list but may prove difficult to accomodate everyones idea of what the ideal solution is. It would be fairly easy to create these for yourself.

He is another idea that may be worth considering. Server rack slides. I'd have to get measurements but Dell 1-2U rack slides are extremely robust, are manufactured with roller bearings and some models provide a catch for keeping them open in mid and full open positions. There are thousands of these floating around from decommissioned servers and if it was proven that they could handle the job, it would be simple to retrofit them for this new application. They are also relatively cheap coming in at between $50-100 a set. Let me know if you want me to look into this for you and I will hit our datacenters with a measuring tape.

 

[OregonLC]

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by 38" drawer that is 10" deep?

Yep, roughly 38 deep x 21 wide, x 10 deep.

I think a minimum of 2 inserts (to create 3 separate compartments) that can be configured by the end user would be a good place to start. Maybe additional inserts could be purchased at an additional cost.

With the thickness of the material being used and the potential weight of the items in the drawers, we'd most likely go with semi-permanent dividers. That is, dividers with tabs that bolt through the sides. Slotting of the sides of the drawer box (like a desk drawer) probably wouldn't be robust enough.

Full width, or modular left and right?

Definitely modular units. Once we have settled on a working design for the carcass and the drawer box scaling to a specific size would be relatively easy although there would be a nominal cost premium as it would be a one-off for the fabricator.

I think 10" of blind space in a 38" drawer is acceptable. I don't think you have to have full extension slides.

I agree with Fuzz about the "stop". It does need to have some sort of way to "stop" the drawer open when you are parked downhill.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably put locking slides on the prototype to try it out.

The drawer slides also can come in a lock in/lock out variety. My perception is that most folks would want a key lock/latch for securing the drawer, but if you went with lock-in slides that could eliminate the latch mechanism.

 

[plirky]

1) What is the acceptable level of blind space in the back of an extended drawer?

My max acceptable blind is 12". I'd be happy with 8-10" No need for full extension sliders.

2) Is there any strong desire to have drawer slides with a lock-open feature?

For me, this is a nice to have, but not required. Would be great as an add-on option. If they are added, would be nice if they are manually engaged, and not automatically enabled as the drawer slides open.

3) How important is it to you to have positionable dividers in the drawers? If important, what's the right number? 2? 3?

Again, a nice to have, but not required. Though would be nice if the drawers facilitated easily adding them as an option. Like pre drilled holes the length of the drawer.

If you need another vehicle for mock ups, let me know, I'm in the area.

 

[ntsaint]

These are a great idea, and if I hadn't just built some, would definitely be on the 'in' list. Might still be, if they wind up slick/tough/light!

Couple comments:

1. Elaborating on Fuzz's comment--the lock open will be an easy deal if you are extending the drawers out past the tailgate...you can simply use whatever handles you pick to bind against the face of the tailgate (requires that you face the locking mechanism down though). The handles i used on my system do a great job of this...I use it all the time. Trying to do this with slides will add a lot of cost.

2. From my experience, 10-12" of blind space is not an issue. The drawers are at a height where you can easily accomodate that.

3. If possible, i would try and stay away from any hinge, lever, etc, that protrudes above the surface of whatever top you put on the system. They will get in the way and wind up ripping / scratching something one day. ask me how i know...

 

[FOPLawyer]

Definitely interested.

 

[re_guderian]

...Definitely modular units. Once we have settled on a working design for the carcass and the drawer box scaling to a specific size would be relatively easy although there would be a nominal cost premium as it would be a one-off for the fabricator...

So your typical unit would span the entire width? I was wondering if you could order a half-width, and be able to retain one 3rd row seat. Sounds possible?

 

[OregonLC]

So your typical unit would span the entire width? I was wondering if you could order a half-width, and be able to retain one 3rd row seat. Sounds possible?

By 'modular' I meant to imply half-width. They will be identical L/R so one size fits all.

 

[nakman]

So your typical unit would span the entire width? I was wondering if you could order a half-width, and be able to retain one 3rd row seat. Sounds possible?

I'm interested in this approach as well.. sounds possible? Interested if so.

 

[tabraha]

Taggity!!!! And I echo Fuzz's comments to your questions.

 

[CappyKD]

I think a 10" bind space is acceptable.



Definitely want to be able to "lock" them in a full open position.



High on the wish list but may prove difficult to accomodate everyones idea of what the ideal solution is. It would be fairly easy to create these for yourself.

He is another idea that may be worth considering. Server rack slides. I'd have to get measurements but Dell 1-2U rack slides are extremely robust, are manufactured with roller bearings and some models provide a catch for keeping them open in mid and full open positions. There are thousands of these floating around from decommissioned servers and if it was proven that they could handle the job, it would be simple to retrofit them for this new application. They are also relatively cheap coming in at between $50-100 a set. Let me know if you want me to look into this for you and I will hit our datacenters with a measuring tape.

Wow so your an IT guy. Cool, good idea, I have tons of HP and Dell rails... Hmm now to trade 3 or 4 sets for a drawer system.

 

[OregonLC]

Wow so your an IT guy. Cool, good idea, I have tons of HP and Dell rails... Hmm now to trade 3 or 4 sets for a drawer system.

From what I understand, most of the server rack slides are from these guys. General Devices Company Inc Spendy stuff. And while we'd love to build our business model around used parts that's probably not a realistic assumption if we're trying to be semi-professional about this. Both from a supply chain perspective and from a quality control standpoint.

Probably run with something like this as a 'standard' with an optional lock out slide and an upgrade. http://www.drawerslides.com/_media/spec/34613598ee8bc61f4bc4be2f9608711a.pdf The use of the latch pin as a holdback alternative to the lockout is a valid idea that we'll vet out with the prototype.

 

[pfran42]

From what I understand, most of the server rack slides are from these guys. General Devices Company Inc Spendy stuff. And while we'd love to build our business model around used parts that's probably not a realistic assumption if we're trying to be semi-professional about this. Both from a supply chain perspective and from a quality control standpoint.

Probably run with something like this as a 'standard' with an optional lock out slide and an upgrade. http://www.drawerslides.com/_media/spec/34613598ee8bc61f4bc4be2f9608711a.pdf The use of the latch pin as a holdback alternative to the lockout is a valid idea that we'll vet out with the prototype.

Rack slides can also come from Dell, Compaq, Sun, etc. If they meet spec, I would seriously re-consider. Do you know how may server rack slides never make it out of the box? When it comes time to upgrade servers, most people just pop the servers out and insert new servers leaving the new rails still wrapped in plastic to spend eternity in a storage room. We had 100s of these at my last company. We would have paid for someone to come and pick them up. You could source these dirt cheap in mass quantities and they would all be "new".

Again, I know you want this to be professional, but if these type rails were of the correct strength and quality, you would be wisely re-appropriating useless resources and doing your part in making a substancial part of your business green!

Edit: I see you can get your for $15 a pair. I bet you could do that or better in bulk buying directly from a medium/large sized company. Remember, they don't want them!

 

[pfran42]

Wow so your an IT guy. Cool, good idea, I have tons of HP and Dell rails... Hmm now to trade 3 or 4 sets for a drawer system.

I'll trade you something for 2 sets of rails. PM me.

 

[jgray]

^^ Ha.. Pfran you still remember my server rail ideas! I have a pile of these (many still unused in the box)... I haven't built my drawers but stay tuned... I plan on using these for my drawers... I have different sizes for everything from 1U servers to heavier rackmount UPS's... I have some other ideas I plan to use when I've got time for the drawer project... I also have a friend that owns a cabinet shop so I'm planning on something nice and it shouldn't cost me much anything...

 

[OregonLC]

If you guys have plenty that meet spec and they're new then I'd be very happy to use them/you as a source. Need two pair now and based upon the responses here I would imagine another 10-15 pair for the first production run. Criteria would be minimum 200 lbs load rating (per pair) at 28" extension. Would prefer 250+ rating. Most of these size out around 2-3" tall x 3/4" wide, they're a pretty substantial rail to handle the anticipated duty. PM me if you have something you think would work.

 

[CappyKD]

If you guys have plenty that meet spec and they're new then I'd be very happy to use them/you as a source. Need two pair now and based upon the responses here I would imagine another 10-15 pair for the first production run. Criteria would be minimum 200 lbs load rating (per pair) at 28" extension. Would prefer 250+ rating. Most of these size out around 2-3" tall x 3/4" wide, they're a pretty substantial rail to handle the anticipated duty. PM me if you have something you think would work.

I will dig around and take a look. PM you and send some photo's of what I come up with.

 

[CappyKD]

I guess this means i will have to head to work one day this week VS. telecommute. 3 computer rooms and one storage room to raid. Better empty out the WRX for the commute.