FZJ80 Rough Idle / Misfire P0300, P0303 & P0304 (1 Viewer)

[txoil]

Thanks Malleus and Landtank.
1. This local Houston shop alleges they do 1FZ-FEs regularly
2. They didn't describe how they measured the 0.025
3. I just asked them to put in a new HG and put the engine back together again (original mission pre-creep)

Javier's thoughts were similar to y'alls. Knowing all this, he no longer wants to work on this engine if it needs additional work. If i do need additional work after the engine's back together again, does anyone have additional ideas on trustworthy Land Cruiser shops in Houston? To be honest, I'm probably going to buy a different daily driver to give me time to rework the engine properly if necessary, so would be open to shops in Austin, San Antone or even Dallas. I would gladly attempt such projects myself but don't have the space (or ceiling height) in my garage.

Many thanks, y'all are a well of experience and info!

 

[txoil]

another update: after asking them to put the existing head back on w a new HG, they replied that they didn’t want to put their name behind a job like that because head very much out of spec based on their measurement. Also now saying the block has a check on the part under where the HG was blown between cylinders 3 and 4 so refusing to put cylinder head back on his watch. Also reiterated ridges in cylinder.

Thoughts?

Video from shop here:

 

[Malleus]

Find another shop.

 

[txoil]

Find another shop.

Anyone know reputable or cruiser-knowledgeable shops near Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Victoria or even up to Dallas? Shops might find it too risky to take on a "storied" engine job like mine that's already taken apart unless the shop is a real specialist.

Had a further chat w/ this shop and he said he could try to hand-stone the block a little to see if the check mark goes away, and also suggested a shim as a way to make up for the lost material in the head. Said the 0.025" removed from head was based on his shop's measurement of the head and that another 0.007 could be needed to clean up the head from where it stands today.

 

[Malleus]

Have you tried the Texas clubs? I feel for you. You'd think that a large city would have at least one machine shop that would know what they're doing. In the middle of NASCAR country, I had to drive 25 miles to a shop to have my head machined.

When I sold my LX570 to my daughter, I looked for Land Cruiser shops in Dallas. I found three reputable ones, but their wait lists are months long.

FWIW, if I was running a machine shop, I wouldn't think twice about doing this job. There's nothing about what you've described that would scare me. Then you just need someone to put it back together and install it for you. That too isn't at all hard. The FSM is so well written, and the truck so well designed, a couple of high school kids could do it on a weekend.

Assuming of course, that they could read.

 

[77mustard40]

Anyone know reputable or cruiser-knowledgeable shops near Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Victoria or even up to Dallas? Shops might find it too risky to take on a "storied" engine job like mine that's already taken apart unless the shop is a real specialist.

Had a further chat w/ this shop and he said he could try to hand-stone the block a little to see if the check mark goes away, and also suggested a shim as a way to make up for the lost material in the head. Said the 0.025" removed from head was based on his shop's measurement of the head and that another 0.007 could be needed to clean up the head from where it stands today.

FYI my 97 is currently under the knife for the HG at Bearden Automotive in NW Austin. Started to notice coolant levels drop in the overflow bottle and couldn’t find a leak. It never threw a code but I did have a couple of warm restarts with a rough idle so did a leak down and didn’t hold pressure. Failure was between a rear water jacket and #6. I don’t have time to do this one and this is the only place I trust in ATX. It may take time as they are usually slammed but the job will be done correctly.

Certified Toyota Repair in Austin, TX

Bearden Automotive is Austin’s independent Toyota repair shop, working on all Toyota, Lexus, and Scion vehicles.

www.beardenautomotive.com

 

[txoil]

FYI my 97 is currently under the knife for the HG at Bearden Automotive in NW Austin. Started to notice coolant levels drop in the overflow bottle and couldn’t find a leak. It never threw a code but I did have a couple of warm restarts with a rough idle so did a leak down and didn’t hold pressure. Failure was between a rear water jacket and #6. I don’t have time to do this one and this is the only place I trust in ATX. It may take time as they are usually slammed but the job will be done correctly.

Certified Toyota Repair in Austin, TX

Bearden Automotive is Austin’s independent Toyota repair shop, working on all Toyota, Lexus, and Scion vehicles.

www.beardenautomotive.com

Thank you Malleus and 77mustard40. Thankfully I now have the luxury of time from having bought another driver.

 

[Malleus]

Thank you Malleus and 77mustard40. Thankfully I now have the luxury of time from having bought another driver.

As long as you have an OBDII setup, you could strip parts and use this one. (Post #25 - @arcteryx )

 

[txoil]

As long as you have an OBDII setup, you could strip parts and use this one. (Post #25 - @arcteryx )

Thanks, Malleus. Have a call into them.

 

[txoil]

I'm having an in-person mtg with the current shop re: ridges. So i'm clear (as I'm no engine expert), ridges are only a problem if they catch a fingernail but not otherwise?
Is there a distance from the top of the block which makes it ok to have ridges that catch a fingernail (ie how high in the block does the piston travel) or if there's any fingernail catching the block needs to be rebored? Thanks in advance.

 

[Malleus]

There is no "fingernail catching" engineering standard. The cylinder walls must be smooth (honed =<16rms), however, this practically only applies to the areas within the movement area of the piston rings. To be clear, if the metal defect in the cylinder wall is either above or below the extreme positions of the piston rings, it doesn't matter.

In your case, the "ridges" your shop identified, as far as I tell by the photos you posted, are not metal defects, but carbon buildup on the top of the piston/cylinder wall. Typically, shops remove this hard carbon buildup using a ridge reamer because it's hard, and because when the cylinders are honed, any area that is not "ready" for honing (in other words, the surface was nearly "as honed" before starting) need to be "cleared" of defects in order to preserve the hone (stone) surface. Shops don't want to break their hone stones because they aren't cheap.

Honing operations are cheaper for shops because they are quicker; time is money. In the instances in which the cylinder has to be bored, the ridges don't matter. The tool is designed to cut metal, it'll cut anything that gets in its way.

In your case, the shop wants to use a ridge reamer to clean the carbon off the cylinder, and since they don't want to get that trash in the gaps between the rings, they want to tear the engine down.

While this may be a good thing to do, if money and time were no object, it's not absolutely necessary, in your case, based on the photos you posted.

 

[rdcnj]

update: due to timing issues ended up having to take it to an engine specialist downtown, with Stewart’s blessing. This new shop diagnosed a blown Hg between 3 and 4 after opening it up. Will post photos. Then they said the head has also been shaved by 25 mils, which puts it out of spec to be reused or Re installed. Then said there were ridges in the cylinder which required machining out and decking the short block. Effectively a full engine rebuild for $14k total. Does this sound right? HG replacement now a full blown rebuild?

Thoughts much appreciated, thank you in advance.

Have one here getting an engine rebuild, this price is dead on for replacing everything (gaskets, bolts, etc) and rebuilding engine.

A rebuilt motor alone is about $4500 from most reputable sources. Easily $5k in parts and another $5k in labor.

 

[rdcnj]

I suppose one method would be to mesure the cc volume of the chamber.

Sometimes there are also markings on the heads you can measure to see where it's at.

 

[txoil]

There is no "fingernail catching" engineering standard. The cylinder walls must be smooth (honed =<16rms), however, this practically only applies to the areas within the movement area of the piston rings. To be clear, if the metal defect in the cylinder wall is either above or below the extreme positions of the piston rings, it doesn't matter.

In your case, the "ridges" your shop identified, as far as I tell by the photos you posted, are not metal defects, but carbon buildup on the top of the piston/cylinder wall. Typically, shops remove this hard carbon buildup using a ridge reamer because it's hard, and because when the cylinders are honed, any area that is not "ready" for honing (in other words, the surface was nearly "as honed" before starting) need to be "cleared" of defects in order to preserve the hone (stone) surface. Shops don't want to break their hone stones because they aren't cheap.

Honing operations are cheaper for shops because they are quicker; time is money. In the instances in which the cylinder has to be bored, the ridges don't matter. The tool is designed to cut metal, it'll cut anything that gets in its way.

In your case, the shop wants to use a ridge reamer to clean the carbon off the cylinder, and since they don't want to get that trash in the gaps between the rings, they want to tear the engine down.

While this may be a good thing to do, if money and time were no object, it's not absolutely necessary, in your case, based on the photos you posted.

Thanks Malleus, I’ve learned something.

 

[txoil]

Have one here getting an engine rebuild, this price is dead on for replacing everything (gaskets, bolts, etc) and rebuilding engine.

A rebuilt motor alone is about $4500 from most reputable sources. Easily $5k in parts and another $5k in labor.

Thanks for the data point, rdcnj.

 

[Malleus]

Have one here getting an engine rebuild, this price is dead on for replacing everything (gaskets, bolts, etc) and rebuilding engine.

A rebuilt motor alone is about $4500 from most reputable sources. Easily $5k in parts and another $5k in labor.

That makes a brand new short block even more economically feasible.

 

[rdcnj]

That makes a brand new short block even more economically feasible.

I think that leaves a ton of room for error and costs to run up, unless you only need a short block.

You don't get a lot of parts with the short block, which means you'll be relying on your existing parts or ordering even more parts to attempt to rebuild the rest of the engine to match the block.

I was quoted $4677 as the "retail price" for that short block, part number 11400-66041.

There are allegedly only two dealers in the country who show potential availability.

So shipping alone should easily add $1,000 to most major metro locations.

My main concern for reliability would be the head and oil pump assembly.

I don't think it's too far fetched to see a short block assembly costing someone $8,000 - $11,000 by the time they are all in, just for parts.

Then you still need someone with a brain to do this carefully so you're not having a single issue for at least 250,000 miles at minimum.

The $4500 I quoted above was what the owner of this Cruiser paid for a reputable engine rebuilder to deliver a long block to our facility, ready to prep for install.

 

[txoil]

Thanks, rdcnj.

update: i visited with the engine shop and took photos and videos which I will post below.
- Ridge lines in all cylinders were ~3/8" from the top
- Ridge lines on one side of the cylinders were simply different color and didn't catch a fingernail. The other side caught my fingernail in a minor way
- The diagonal cross hash lines were still visible in each cylinder
- Black soot marks on the the head gasket and corresponding locations on the deck of the short block potentially indicated severe loss of pressure or blowouts
- Tech said the engine block studs were quite loose when he took off the head, potentially indicating insufficient tightening caused the blowouts (recall this HG had been redone not too long ago)
- Underside of the head is flat enough / not skewed

Solution:
- Shop will lightly shave the bottom of the head then install a thicker head gasket
- Should be minimal scope creep
- I told the shop the ridges are light enough that I can live with them

Thanks to all of you on this thread for giving me the confidence to insist on the path we are taking, which should be around $3k instead of 14.

 

[txoil]

Photos below. Thoughts on the ridge?

 

[txoil]