Fuel pressure gauge question

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Guys,

I’m having a very similar problem with my 80. Cold starts and hot starts are fine, but if it sits 30-90 minutes it hard starts. It also has a slight annoying stumble at idle. Rpms hardly fluctuate, but you can feel the 80 intermittently vibrate in the cab. So not terrible, but definitely not normal.

Here’s what I’ve done:

New fuel pressure relay
New EFI coolant temp sensor
New EGR modulator, VSV, pulled manifold and cleaned it, cleaned “tube out”
New fuel filter
New plugs, wires, rotor, cap
Injectors were pulled, tested, and cleaned in 2010 and passed

I’m thinking I might need to replace the injectors, but does that explain the rough idle? The 80 did shut down one time while my daughter was driving it too. Hasn’t happened since then though.
 
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Guys,

I’m having a very similar problem with my 80. Cold starts and hot starts are fine, but if it sits 30-90 minutes it hard starts. It also has a slight annoying stumble at idle. Rpms hardly fluctuate, but you can feel the 80 intermittently vibrate in the cab. So not terrible, but definitely not normal.

Here’s what I’ve done:

New fuel pressure relay
New EFI coolant temp sensor
New EGR modulator, VSV, pulled manifold and cleaned it, cleaned “tube out”
New fuel filter
New plugs, wires, rotor, cap
Injectors were pulled, tested, and cleaned in 2010 and passed

I’m thinking I might need to replace the injectors, but does that explain the rough idle? The 80 did shut down one time while my daughter was driving it too. Hasn’t happened since then though.


If you are going to replace the injectors make sure you replace and don't clean them again. I have the exact problem you are describing and cleaning the injectors didn't do anything. However I do not have rough idle. Just starting 30-90 minutes after sitting is a pain. I feel so bad for my starter.

I also did
fuel pressure relay
charcoal canister
EFI coolant temp sensor
New plugs and wires

I want to do fuel filter and pump next. I hope its one of those two.
 
Did the cleaning/testing reveal any injector leakage? That's what I was hoping to find by sending them out again. I hate to drop $750 on 6 new injectors. The fact that it starts up 'hot' and 'cold' immediately really seems to point to fuel leaking into the cylinder(s). Still have no idea why the idle isn't smooth and whether it's related or not.

Have you considered the fuel pressure regulator? Crank position sensor?
 
Did the cleaning/testing reveal any injector leakage? That's what I was hoping to find by sending them out again. I hate to drop $750 on 6 new injectors. The fact that it starts up 'hot' and 'cold' immediately really seems to point to fuel leaking into the cylinder(s). Still have no idea why the idle isn't smooth and whether it's related or not.

Have you considered the fuel pressure regulator? Crank position sensor?


No leaking revealed unfortunately. Fuel Pressure regulator and Crank Position sensor are two things I should try as they are probably more cost effective fixes before trying a new pump.
 
Update - I noticed what I thought was a tear in the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator. It wasn't all the way through, but when I pull the vac line, fuel came flowing out of the regulator. I'm assuming that the diaphragm is torn? Guessing this is likely my problem.
 
Update - I noticed what I thought was a tear in the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator. It wasn't all the way through, but when I pull the vac line, fuel came flowing out of the regulator. I'm assuming that the diaphragm is torn? Guessing this is likely my problem.

I would say that your regulator is toast.
 
Just ordered a new one. Thinking this is going to solve my hard starts when the car is warm and the intermittent vibrations in the idle. I'll report back.
 
toyotapartsdeal.com
 
Just out of curiosity, one could simply unplug the vac hose from the FPR and cap it off. This would quickly eliminate the FPR as being the root cause. I know that some folks are running with the FPR disabled this way, thinking the engine is always getting the highest amount of fuel to the rail as possible regardless of the engine RPM.
 
Okay, update - it took two damn weeks to get the fpr from toyotapartsdeal. They’re awful. Good news is that the new fpr fixed the hard starting issue. Problem is completely gone.

The imperfect idle is still there though. RPM gauge does not fluctuate, but I can feel prominent vibrations in the cab. It doesn’t affect functionality, but it drives me nuts.
 
P0401 appears to likely have been a prior issue. I did have a rusted passageway going from VSV to EGR valve and this may have been part of the issue. P0401 is gone at so far - replaced a ton of stuff but feel better knowing is new. I bought a mityvac to use for testing along with a vacuum pressure gauge and Innova multimeter. This was awesome and made testing EGR components, etc easy. Would recommend these things, got all from Amazon. I used the testing recommendations noted previously in the "vsv the easy way" post about checking the VSV (did this for fuel and egr vsv's). FSM was very helpful.

For the fuel injector issues - I believe this may have occured after having cleaned. I went to a reputable local cleaner who specializes in high end sports cars here in town - he has a 1400RWHp Viper and a Shelby Cobra, AWESOME. Not sure but I believe the issue arose after the cleaning. Oh well. The fuel pressure testing really was beneficial but I did not know the initial norms. My findings currently show fuel pressures coming off the rear of the fuel filter being 32 running, 40-42 with vacuum unhooked on FPR, and 54-56 when fuel return line on FPR clamped. Pressures drop very slowly with all new injectors and drop from 32 or so to 28-30 after 21 minutes. Previously they would drop to low 20's after 21 min. Then after sitting for 1-1.5 hrs my fuel pressures now drop to 20-25 or so where previously they would drop to around 5-10. So big difference here. If i knew these normal's i would have suspected fuel injector sooner. The information I found online made me believe that fuel pressure should stay above 21 for 5 min after car shut off - but my findings are much higher than this. I have found that the pump raises pressure very quickly so a pressure at 0 when starting is not the issue, My issue was that the small leak (2-3drops/min - fsm states should be <1 drop/min) was causing a drop in fuel pressure, flooding of a cylinder, and the hard start issue. Therefore if someone has future concerns for a leaking injector - if it is a small leak you may not note if remove spark plugs and smell for fuel - only may note if doing fuel pressure testing. My definitive test was to have them again flow tested at injector service place and leak down test done noting leak.

Tips I have learned from doing this work. If you remove the throttle body but don't have to clean it - just unbolt and set to side - those cables will drive you crazy. I hate doing the TPS adjustment. The intake can be removed fairly quickly by 1)getting all the bolts on front of intake (near radiator in front of brace) from top of truck, getting front bolt on back half of intake from above, getting next rearward bolt from directly below under truck, and getting last 2 bolts on back/inside of intake from rear of wheel-well opening using a wobble socket. This made this much easier than my first try and I have done this atleast 4 times now. The brace bolt is hard to get back in - had a 200 lb guy pulling down intake to get to thread back in. I wrapped the wiring with heat tape from Amazon as well.

All in all I am glad I did this job. Love being able to work on the Landcruiser on my own and learning - however wish it hadn't taken so long to fix. Wife got a little frustrated with it for sure, however she loves riding it now - we take 30 min-1hr joyrides on weekends around town. No i need to get the ARB, OME 2.5 heavies, and Slee rear dual swing out, and 33's. Still trying to decide on which 33's. BFG A/T, M/T or Duratrac's etc.

Thanks for all your help. Especially Elhombre, Beno, Summitcruisers. Helped alot when I wanted to take the cruiser out and burn it to the ground at times.
Awesome Reading of everything you wrote, i have a question, do you know at what pressure do you recommend or do you know at what pressure in psi the FPR runs in our 80's? what the toyota says the FPR should be working at?
 
Sorry I am not sure. I unfortunately have forgotten most of what I did at the time as it has been a couple yrs. Hopefully something I wrote earlier can help some.
 
Just out of curiosity, one could simply unplug the vac hose from the FPR and cap it off. This would quickly eliminate the FPR as being the root cause. I know that some folks are running with the FPR disabled this way, thinking the engine is always getting the highest amount of fuel to the rail as possible regardless of the engine RPM.

This doesn't disable the FPR, just cripples it. Preset regulators are set to maintain pressure difference to whatever environment, most often atmospheric pressure. In this case the injectors fire into the intake, where the pressure changes. Having a line to the intake allows the regulator to maintain the pressure difference to intake pressure, where the injectors work, a better setup. So if you measure rail pressure, will see it fluctuate compared to atmospheric, if you also hooked up a vacuum gauge and did the math, would see it stays relatively steady compared to the working environment.
 
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