The FS is holding a series of meetings to discuss its future of Ga's trail systems. It would be good to attend, I will be trying to hit one of these myself.
FS Assessment Meetings for Georgia's Trails
- Thread starter TeddyBoy
- Start date
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Thanks, Ted. The more the merrier.
This will be an informational meeting about what the Forest Service wants to do with our recreational trails.
This includes Hiking, Biking, Equestrian, and Motorized trails.
The Forest Service wants public input.
BTW, the Southern 4WD Association had a good meeting yesterday and the latest information about the Beasley Knob assessment report was covered.
The survey report and map has been delivered by the contractor.
This will be an informational meeting about what the Forest Service wants to do with our recreational trails.
This includes Hiking, Biking, Equestrian, and Motorized trails.
The Forest Service wants public input.
BTW, the Southern 4WD Association had a good meeting yesterday and the latest information about the Beasley Knob assessment report was covered.
The survey report and map has been delivered by the contractor.
For what it is worth, please try to attend one of them. The planning event we attended last year was filled with "save the environment types"
It was clearly obvious, the Mountain bikers, OHV users and the equestrian groups were the only folk advocating for open trails.
It was clearly obvious, the Mountain bikers, OHV users and the equestrian groups were the only folk advocating for open trails.
You're right, Andrew. And, its being held at an REI.
There will be a lot of people wearing Birkenstocks.
There will be a lot of people wearing Birkenstocks.
Anyone planning to go to the one in dalton?
I don't know, but if you could attend that one, it would be great.
Most of us are down here in Atlanta.
Most of us are down here in Atlanta.
I attended the FS meeting in Kennesaw yesterday. It was moved from REI to the Cobb Conference Center (just across Barrett Parkway behind the Costco).
The meeting was very different than what I thought it was going to be. The FS opened the meeting with an approximate twenty minute introduction. In the introduction, it was stated that this series of meetings stems from an invitation only meeting last year to discuss restoration planning for national forests in the south which was followed by a meeting between the FS & representatives from all users of the trail systems in Georgia (Dave Logan was identified as a participant in this meeting).
During the introduction, a few facts stuck with me. The total trail system in the Georgia national forests is ~850 miles. This is the total for all trail designations. Of this total, the OHV subtotal is 112 miles (including the ATV and motorcycle only trails). The funding the FS receives to maintain these trails (all trails not just the OHV) is less than half what they project is required. The FS is not receiving any funding to expand the trail system even as the population grows and demands on the trail system grows. Every type of trail has areas requiring maintenance or redesign to fix unacceptable soil loss (environmental damage). The value to the FS budget by volunteers is significant. The volunteer summary last year was equivalent to increasing their staff by over 21 bodies.
After the introduction, they had us break up into working groups that were mixed to include interests represented from all groups. Each working group reviewed different aspects of the trail challenge (i.e., from what are the problems to how do we fix them). My first impression was that this was very lame (like some of the new-age junk that HR does at work now). However after working through several of these questions with the working groups (the groups that changed with each question), it seemed that the primary purpose from the FS with these meeting was to foster understanding between the various user groups to see that they have common ground and how hard it is for the FS to satisfy them all.
My biggest take-away was shock at mind set of many of these users. The hikers and fishermen in my working groups were completely unwilling to pay for what they use and they want from the FS. They want all the funding to go to their interests and they should not have to directly pay for any sort of usage/maintenance fee. Their solution was close trails to other usages to allow all the funding to go to what they want. Simultaneously, they advocated increased funding of the national forests by Washington (but it was implied at no tax increase). To me, this kind of mind set is delusional and will lead nowhere. We have a big task before us to help develop solutions and change mind sets to resolution & cooperation from selfishness.
There are a few meetings left. If you can attend, please do. I think participation is good for our understanding of others and we provide a voice/face to other user groups by participating.
Luckily the meeting had one source of amusement; it was an ultra hippy lady that repeatedly high-jacked the meeting to read her manifesto. In appearance, she would have fit in better in the 60’s; maybe at Woodstock or an anti-war demonstration. Sort of like she was a time traveler, but with 40 years of dirt-n-grim on her and her clothes, her trip through time was not instantaneous. On three or four occasions she interrupted the meeting to read aloud her manifesto to save the forests. To summarize the manifesto here, the forest service needs to be given unlimited funds and the national forest should be given to the Indians for management (the way they did 500 years ago). And not a sole laughed out loud in the meeting (I held mine until I got to the Cruiser).
The meeting was very different than what I thought it was going to be. The FS opened the meeting with an approximate twenty minute introduction. In the introduction, it was stated that this series of meetings stems from an invitation only meeting last year to discuss restoration planning for national forests in the south which was followed by a meeting between the FS & representatives from all users of the trail systems in Georgia (Dave Logan was identified as a participant in this meeting).
During the introduction, a few facts stuck with me. The total trail system in the Georgia national forests is ~850 miles. This is the total for all trail designations. Of this total, the OHV subtotal is 112 miles (including the ATV and motorcycle only trails). The funding the FS receives to maintain these trails (all trails not just the OHV) is less than half what they project is required. The FS is not receiving any funding to expand the trail system even as the population grows and demands on the trail system grows. Every type of trail has areas requiring maintenance or redesign to fix unacceptable soil loss (environmental damage). The value to the FS budget by volunteers is significant. The volunteer summary last year was equivalent to increasing their staff by over 21 bodies.
After the introduction, they had us break up into working groups that were mixed to include interests represented from all groups. Each working group reviewed different aspects of the trail challenge (i.e., from what are the problems to how do we fix them). My first impression was that this was very lame (like some of the new-age junk that HR does at work now). However after working through several of these questions with the working groups (the groups that changed with each question), it seemed that the primary purpose from the FS with these meeting was to foster understanding between the various user groups to see that they have common ground and how hard it is for the FS to satisfy them all.
My biggest take-away was shock at mind set of many of these users. The hikers and fishermen in my working groups were completely unwilling to pay for what they use and they want from the FS. They want all the funding to go to their interests and they should not have to directly pay for any sort of usage/maintenance fee. Their solution was close trails to other usages to allow all the funding to go to what they want. Simultaneously, they advocated increased funding of the national forests by Washington (but it was implied at no tax increase). To me, this kind of mind set is delusional and will lead nowhere. We have a big task before us to help develop solutions and change mind sets to resolution & cooperation from selfishness.
There are a few meetings left. If you can attend, please do. I think participation is good for our understanding of others and we provide a voice/face to other user groups by participating.
Luckily the meeting had one source of amusement; it was an ultra hippy lady that repeatedly high-jacked the meeting to read her manifesto. In appearance, she would have fit in better in the 60’s; maybe at Woodstock or an anti-war demonstration. Sort of like she was a time traveler, but with 40 years of dirt-n-grim on her and her clothes, her trip through time was not instantaneous. On three or four occasions she interrupted the meeting to read aloud her manifesto to save the forests. To summarize the manifesto here, the forest service needs to be given unlimited funds and the national forest should be given to the Indians for management (the way they did 500 years ago). And not a sole laughed out loud in the meeting (I held mine until I got to the Cruiser).
- Thread starter
- #8
great review Larry and thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping to make the one in Clarkesville in the next week or so if anyone else is intersted.
I'm hoping to make the one in Clarkesville in the next week or so if anyone else is intersted.
Thanks, Larry. I was literally at the Costco when I got a call about a death in the immediate family. Needless to say, I turned around.
Yes, I represented the motorized recreation group at two Forest Service meetings last year. All user groups had representatives there and all got along despite different perspectives.
We were hand picked to eliminate the extreme views and hippies.
Thanks for going and representing us. The OHV groups are the only ones who currently pay any trail user fees and the only ones volunteering in order to match the RTP grants.
The Forest Service does not spend any of their annual budget on OHV trails. All work is funded by RTP grants and our work.
If the RTP program is not renewed by the Department of Transportation we could lose our trails...
Right now the fear is that the RTP program will be dissolved and that the money will go to the DOT for "liveability" projects in urban areas. Sidewalks, bike paths, etc.
Yes, I represented the motorized recreation group at two Forest Service meetings last year. All user groups had representatives there and all got along despite different perspectives.
We were hand picked to eliminate the extreme views and hippies.
Thanks for going and representing us. The OHV groups are the only ones who currently pay any trail user fees and the only ones volunteering in order to match the RTP grants.
The Forest Service does not spend any of their annual budget on OHV trails. All work is funded by RTP grants and our work.
If the RTP program is not renewed by the Department of Transportation we could lose our trails...
Right now the fear is that the RTP program will be dissolved and that the money will go to the DOT for "liveability" projects in urban areas. Sidewalks, bike paths, etc.
Dave,
My condolences to you and your family.
This not the time for such questions and discussion, but at the right time ...
I have been wondering if the funding answer for trail longivity is within our grasp. Form a tax exempt foundation to support the trails in the Georgia national forests (all trails). Effectively the "Friends of Georgia Trails" would accept membership/endowment and the funds would be used expressly for maintenance and improvement (improvement includes expansion) of the Georgia trails. The key would be that members could specify what trails/projects their funds would be applied to. For example, I would specify the funds be used for trails tailored to usage by high ground clearance road legal vehicles (i.e., Beasley Knob and/or new areas that meet this requirement). By being able to earmark wherethe funds are used, membership would not have to be restricted to one group or another. There may even be power in numbers with the top level appearance of cooperation, without pitting one user group against another because they get what they pay for.
Additionally by keeping the funds in the foundation, I think they could be managed more effectively for growth and minimize waste by the Forest Service. The waste I am thinking is how the FS may contract a company for maintenance or improvement of Beasley Knob; limited results/accomplishments for the funds raised. However, the foundation could leaverage the participation of the SWFDA (people, machinery & experience) and volunteers to maximize what is accomplished with the available funds (more bang for the buck).
This is probably just showing my ignorance of tax law and requirements for creating and managing such a foundation, but maybe others know how to fix my errors and to turn this notion into a viable concept that could be moved for broader consideration.
My condolences to you and your family.
This not the time for such questions and discussion, but at the right time ...
I have been wondering if the funding answer for trail longivity is within our grasp. Form a tax exempt foundation to support the trails in the Georgia national forests (all trails). Effectively the "Friends of Georgia Trails" would accept membership/endowment and the funds would be used expressly for maintenance and improvement (improvement includes expansion) of the Georgia trails. The key would be that members could specify what trails/projects their funds would be applied to. For example, I would specify the funds be used for trails tailored to usage by high ground clearance road legal vehicles (i.e., Beasley Knob and/or new areas that meet this requirement). By being able to earmark wherethe funds are used, membership would not have to be restricted to one group or another. There may even be power in numbers with the top level appearance of cooperation, without pitting one user group against another because they get what they pay for.
Additionally by keeping the funds in the foundation, I think they could be managed more effectively for growth and minimize waste by the Forest Service. The waste I am thinking is how the FS may contract a company for maintenance or improvement of Beasley Knob; limited results/accomplishments for the funds raised. However, the foundation could leaverage the participation of the SWFDA (people, machinery & experience) and volunteers to maximize what is accomplished with the available funds (more bang for the buck).
This is probably just showing my ignorance of tax law and requirements for creating and managing such a foundation, but maybe others know how to fix my errors and to turn this notion into a viable concept that could be moved for broader consideration.
Thank you, Larry. I leave for the funeral in one hour.
Your idea has merit, but the federal government has supplied Georgia with roughly 2 million dollars for motorized OHV trails in Georgia.
If we don't use it (wisely or not), it will go back into the black hole in Washington and then be distributed to another state.
We may as well use the money here. I sit on the RTP committee that awards the grants (not the FS contracts). And, GBR and I work with the Forest Service to determine what work needs to be done in Beasley Knob.
Members of the GBR, myself, a professional trail building contractor, and the Forest Service walked every inch of Beasley Knob last Fall. A 60 page report has been written that identifies issues and opportunities.
The Forest Service will review the report, prioritize the work, and let some contracts.
With $2 million in funds available, we should be able to fix existing issues and possibly add some trail segments.
In addition, the recession has actually lowered some of the contractor's bids and we are getting more bang for the buck.
Check back with me if you want to discuss your idea further.
Thanks...
Your idea has merit, but the federal government has supplied Georgia with roughly 2 million dollars for motorized OHV trails in Georgia.
If we don't use it (wisely or not), it will go back into the black hole in Washington and then be distributed to another state.
We may as well use the money here. I sit on the RTP committee that awards the grants (not the FS contracts). And, GBR and I work with the Forest Service to determine what work needs to be done in Beasley Knob.
Members of the GBR, myself, a professional trail building contractor, and the Forest Service walked every inch of Beasley Knob last Fall. A 60 page report has been written that identifies issues and opportunities.
The Forest Service will review the report, prioritize the work, and let some contracts.
With $2 million in funds available, we should be able to fix existing issues and possibly add some trail segments.
In addition, the recession has actually lowered some of the contractor's bids and we are getting more bang for the buck.
Check back with me if you want to discuss your idea further.
Thanks...
- Thread starter
- #13
if i can
I would be very interested in exploring some of the GA Forest Roads we have available to us. What are the best resources for access? Are there maps available? Must we first coordinate with the Forest Service before using them? Before I venture out on this little weekend trip I just want to be sure I'm putting the right foot forward. Any information would be helpful.
Thanks
Steven
Thanks
Steven
- Thread starter
- #15
Maps are readilly available on the Forest Service site or one of their field offices. they can alsoo be found at most outdoor stores for around $10, get the Chattahoochee national forest map.
you do not need special permission to run them, just watch for closed gates which can be seasonal. They're out there to be discovered and will take you many years to travel them all. For the most part a minivan can do them all, just dont forget your soccer-mom sticker.
you do not need special permission to run them, just watch for closed gates which can be seasonal. They're out there to be discovered and will take you many years to travel them all. For the most part a minivan can do them all, just dont forget your soccer-mom sticker.
Just so happens I have one. Got one as a joke for my fiance a few years ago. She does drive a Volvo wagon after all.
Thanks for the info. I'll stop by REI and will pick up some maps. I did happen to get on Discover Georgia's Off Road and Highway Trails
and noticed that there are fees to use these facilities. Are these places to be avoided, or are they just lax about the fees?
Thanks
S
What I use to scout for trails.
JDMCOX Software
Download USAphotomaps
Open it up and
GOTO
Address
enter in something close to the area your looking for.
You will the see a blank screen with boxes.
Hit the F button and it will start filling them in with Photos. Once the download you can figure out where you are.
To scroll out use the - key in is the + key
USe the arrows to scroll left, right, up, down.
To change what your looking at to the topo maps press the T key. It will always save those maps in your database so you don't have to keep updating them.
You can also plot courses and use a GPS receiver if you want. I use it a lot on the trail. Just make sure where you are going you have already downloaded the maps.
The maps are USGS maps. If you look close you will see trails marked "Jeep Trail" these are the ones of interest. Note some of them will be gated or trapped. But some won't. I have found quite a few trails this way.
- Thread starter
- #18
Don't mistake OHV areas as forest service roads, they are 2 entirely different animals. OHV (Off highway Vehicles) areas are fee based and there is only 1 in Ga available for full sized vehicles; Beasley Knob. I might add as a personal note, this is my favorite OHV in the whole world. 
As far as avoiding these areas, well I supppose that's discretionary. Beasley has a habit of eating my truck for lunch, it likes fenders and mirrors and tires and pinions and especially Jeep Cherokees. Beasley can be a fun place but very steep and not even doable when wet. Take a run up there and have fun but don't go alone.
Forest Service roads are maintained gravel roads that x-cross most of north Ga. They can can be fun in a manner of speaking as some provide nice views, smooth ride, and the occassional water crossing that even gets your tires wet. In fact, you might even take a picnic basket and a blanket and enjoy a day with the
but beyond that they're not exciting.
We did an "Expo" ride last year and it was fun, but very tame: http://m598.photobucket.com/albums/...Amicalola Falls to Suches Expedition/?src=www
As far as avoiding these areas, well I supppose that's discretionary. Beasley has a habit of eating my truck for lunch, it likes fenders and mirrors and tires and pinions and especially Jeep Cherokees. Beasley can be a fun place but very steep and not even doable when wet. Take a run up there and have fun but don't go alone.
Forest Service roads are maintained gravel roads that x-cross most of north Ga. They can can be fun in a manner of speaking as some provide nice views, smooth ride, and the occassional water crossing that even gets your tires wet. In fact, you might even take a picnic basket and a blanket and enjoy a day with the
but beyond that they're not exciting.We did an "Expo" ride last year and it was fun, but very tame: http://m598.photobucket.com/albums/...Amicalola Falls to Suches Expedition/?src=www
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Thats a pretty cool link. The 1st one that comes up is beasley. The Volvo would be stressed there as would most stock trucks...FYI
Forest Service roads are maintained gravel roads that x-cross most of north Ga. They can can be fun in a manner of speaking as some provide nice views, smooth ride, and the occassional water crossing that even gets your tires wet. In fact, you might even take a picnic basket and a blanket and enjoy a day with the
Ted not all of those water crossings will just get your tires wet.
This one is in GA. Quite a few trails in that area.
http://www.trollholescruisers.com/Videos/ME/MOV00134.AVI
Nothing I have seen yet compares to an OHV as far as difficulty but there is just something to be said for being out there where everyone isn't.
You can even camp right on the river there.
