All switches are slow be it master or at the door itself.
Front Window Woes
- Thread starter speedracer
- Start date
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I move like a cat
Seriously though, the door panels pop right off after 3 screws are removed and 1 connector. I use a large flatblade screwdriver and work my way around.
After you've removed door panels as many times as I have, it gets easy. I've been chasing the slow windows for years.
Thanks, Jon. I'll give it a go this Sunday, weather and honey-do list permitting.
-KK
- Thread starter
- #23
Here's the update while waiting parts from CDan:
After the fiasco in having UPS lose my shipment and then they charging me $80 for brokerage
(1) New motor + Old Regulator (bent somwhere) + Old Window Run
With the window in the down position it clicks for the first 2 positions like always). After that the window moves up smooth
(2) New motor + New Regulator + Old Window Run
Window goes up and down like a charm
(Though not as fast as I would expect)
(3) New motor + New Regulator + New Run
Same as (2). Maybe a little better sliding up (Slides up a bit smoother)
My suggestions through my trials:
(1) Clean Run -> Test
(2) Clean Primary Window Control -> Test
(3) Buy New Window Motor (buy a new run too pretty cheap)
**
No idea on the why the regulator was bent since I'm the 3rd owner.
I will post pictures later.
After the fiasco in having UPS lose my shipment and then they charging me $80 for brokerage
(1) New motor + Old Regulator (bent somwhere) + Old Window Run
With the window in the down position it clicks for the first 2 positions like always). After that the window moves up smooth
(2) New motor + New Regulator + Old Window Run
Window goes up and down like a charm
(Though not as fast as I would expect)(3) New motor + New Regulator + New Run
Same as (2). Maybe a little better sliding up (Slides up a bit smoother)
My suggestions through my trials:
(1) Clean Run -> Test
(2) Clean Primary Window Control -> Test
(3) Buy New Window Motor (buy a new run too pretty cheap)
**
No idea on the why the regulator was bent since I'm the 3rd owner.
I will post pictures later.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #24
Old Glass Run (left) New Glass Run (right)
(Notice foam lining on the right)
After a day the new glass run is worth the money. It's that much softer than the old one. Windows runs up and down great. Water run ok
New Power Motor (Left) Old Power Motor (Right)
(New motor is smaller)
(Notice foam lining on the right)
After a day the new glass run is worth the money. It's that much softer than the old one. Windows runs up and down great. Water run ok
New Power Motor (Left) Old Power Motor (Right)
(New motor is smaller)
teejnut
SILVER Star
How much was the new motor?
- Thread starter
- #26
Sent you a PM. It Came to $31X in the end I think.
It's such a relief to have the window auto roll down and not worry if the window will come back up
The other windows I am just cleaning the glass run and calling it a day. I'll prob order the Passenger side glass run on my next order of parts from CDan.
It's such a relief to have the window auto roll down and not worry if the window will come back up
The other windows I am just cleaning the glass run and calling it a day. I'll prob order the Passenger side glass run on my next order of parts from CDan.
Sent you a PM. It Came to $31X in the end I think.
It's such a relief to have the window auto roll down and not worry if the window will come back up
The other windows I am just cleaning the glass run and calling it a day. I'll prob order the Passenger side glass run on my next order of parts from CDan.
My slow DS window got much better with cleaning the runs, but I still may replace the runs; to clarify for my pea brain:
You popped off the door panel only, or did you also have to dig into the everything; ie: remove the plastic sheet, etc,etc??
Thanks
g
- Thread starter
- #28
Yes, you have to take it all out. Becarefull when you pull the door trim and the small cover panel near the mirror.
For the plastic sheet / vapor barrier you just need to move it up to the point where you have access to the 6 bolts.
Note: The left hand side there are 2 bolts that can be used for alignment - just do a quick mark / make sure it sits in the same screw indent.
Make sure the window is down
I found it easy leaving it up for about 1" for access to the bottom slider.
The 2 plastic clips on the plastic sheet that you need to take out go from inside the door if you have small hands and pinch them out or use a pointy / small tip screw driver to pinch.
It's about 30 - 45 mins of trying on the first try.
After that about 10-15 on each door. Even less if you have someone who will hold the window for you.
For the plastic sheet / vapor barrier you just need to move it up to the point where you have access to the 6 bolts.
Note: The left hand side there are 2 bolts that can be used for alignment - just do a quick mark / make sure it sits in the same screw indent.
Make sure the window is down
I found it easy leaving it up for about 1" for access to the bottom slider.The 2 plastic clips on the plastic sheet that you need to take out go from inside the door if you have small hands and pinch them out or use a pointy / small tip screw driver to pinch.
It's about 30 - 45 mins of trying on the first try.
After that about 10-15 on each door. Even less if you have someone who will hold the window for you.
teejnut
SILVER Star
Or you can just use duct tape or something similar to hold the window up. I've done that before on other cars.
- Thread starter
- #30
Last update:
-28C
Driver side window (new motor, new glass run) full down then up --> Smooth
Passenger side (cleaned glass run, oem motor) full down then up --> Slow
Hi all,
Newbie to the forum. Great thread, I have been searching the threads about this problem with my new to me 93 fj80. the windows seem to freeze about halfway up on cold days. I have not torn into the door panels yet but this has some great ideas and methods for the fix. I hope to try this out.
Thanks
Newbie to the forum. Great thread, I have been searching the threads about this problem with my new to me 93 fj80. the windows seem to freeze about halfway up on cold days. I have not torn into the door panels yet but this has some great ideas and methods for the fix. I hope to try this out.
Thanks
Thanks for posting this...I'm noticing the same thing on my 96...Seemed like a daunting task to search this problem out. Seems like the answer is a new run, moter and regulator.
Kindofa panic feeling when it's about 20 degrees out and your trying to get the window to roll back up!
Kindofa panic feeling when it's about 20 degrees out and your trying to get the window to roll back up!
- Thread starter
- #33
The regulator you could prob just re use the old - clean up and re grease. Mine was bent somwhere as at the lowest point there would be a clunk noise. But, it's inexpensive to replace (and it's too much trouble for me to order one part at a time and have it shipped across the border).
note: if you do buy a new regulator it is pre greased
Another mini update now that it's gone through multiple abuse from Calgary - ie - snow, rain, to -35C
Driver side (new glass run + new motor + new window regulator) - still smooth going up (even when wet and -XXC degrees outside)
note: if you do buy a new regulator it is pre greased
Another mini update now that it's gone through multiple abuse from Calgary - ie - snow, rain, to -35C
Driver side (new glass run + new motor + new window regulator) - still smooth going up (even when wet and -XXC degrees outside)
For those contemplating removing the door panels in the winter time, be careful. The brittle material on the inside gives easily.
tmps have been in the 20's to 40's here. Might wait for a warmer day then.
Thanks
Thanks
Spray some WD-40 in the channels/tracks for now then; it'll help some.
Where ya at in Oregon? I'm in Medford.
Cheers,
Curtis
Hey CJF,
Im up in Sisters.
Glad to meet you.
Im up in Sisters.
Glad to meet you.
I've narrowed my issue down to being the internal gearing in the driver's side motor. It sounds like the passenger front motor will work as a replacement, but does anyone know if the rear window motor will work? I don't ever lower the rear driver's window (no seat there) so if it works, that would save me a ton of money.
Power window treatment
I have been having problems with the power windows on my '91 for years, and it has gradually gotten worse and worse. At first I was able to just lubricate the channels, then I tried several different substances for lubrication, but I may have caused more long term harm with that. I am not a chemist or plastics guy, but work with some folks who are, and I am told that things like WD-40 can actually make the pastics and rubber materials stiff and brittle. I am going to get some advice from them, but I suspect that the recommendation to use silicone spray, or maybe some silicone grease, is probably the best advice for lubricating the tracks.
Finally I decided I needed some more drastic treatment.
Here's a pretty good photo-tutorial about getting into the door panel. It isn't much help about the motors and regulator though.
Toyota FJ80 Land Cruiser Rear Door Window Regulator Repair | Pacific Northwest Backroad Adventures
Just like this thread, the bar that mounts on the bottom of the window came off when I was trying to crank my window down. On disassembly of the door and window mechanism I found several things. First, the bar that attaches to the bottom of the window is just a steel u channel that fits tightly over a rubber gasket that grabs the window glass by friction. It seems that some of the silicone spray I had sprayed into the channel probably caused this friction strip to come loose. That combined with a tight binding window channel caused the window lifter bracket to pull off the glass on the way down. Then the bracket falls off of the window regulator roller and you hear the metal bracket go clunk into the bottom of the door.
I talked with a parts person at the local Toyota parts counter and was told that they use one of the black non-hardening thread sealer pastes like Permatex #2 to coat the bottom edge of the glass before putting the rubber strip on so that it won't so easily slip off. They put it together and then run the window up to the top of the track to jam it on tight and leave it overnight before running it down. If you have ever used this stuff, you know that it is real sticky, and sounds like a good solution, but it can be cleaned off and removed later if you want to replace the glass or something.
I took the motor and regulator out and tested it, and found that it wouldn't run when tied directly to a 12v battery with no other load on it. So I removed the cover from the motor with two screws, and examined the brushes and armature. The carbon block brushes seemed fine, they had plenty of travel left. They look like they could be replaced if they were too worn, but as old as my rig is, it might be unusual for the brushes to wear that much. I did notice that the copper commutator strips on the armature were kind of black and that there might be some carbon build-up between the plates. This can seriously weaken the power of an electric motor. I took some 600 grit wet-or-dry sand paper and polished the commutator till the plates were bright copper, then I used a brass brush to brush out the slots between the copper plates and used some compressed air to clean them up. After that, I blew out the motor cover and reassembled the motor. After that treatment, the motor ran quite well.
Next I noticed that the window regulator pivot arm and slide bearings were binding a bit, not real badly, but I figured any extra drag on the mechanism is a bad thing, so I cleaned the pivot and bearings with some paint thinner to get all the old dirty and stiff grease washed out, then I re-greased the mechanism thoroughly with white lithium grease spray. After reassembling the motor to the regulator, and using a 12V battery to run it again, I found that it ran back and forth several times quite smoothly. There is a coil "watch" spring which gives the window a bit of extra lift, so the motor runs a bit slower against the spring, but it still seems to run pretty well now even in the down position.
Next I took the black plastic extrusion window track out of the window channel to try to decide whether it needed replacing or not. I took some paint thinner on a rag and scrubbed out the grime and accumulated deposits from the bottom of this plastic channel and was kind of shocked how dirty it was. I suspect that with a good cleaning and treatment of silicone, the window would probably run a lot better, but I think I am going to order a full set of tracks from CruiserDan anyway. The plastic seems to have stiffened with age, and I noticed that about the bottom third of the channel seemed tighter than the top Then I realized that the window glass is normally in the up position so as the plastic channel extrusion gets stiff with age, the top part stiffens with the glass holding the channel open, but the bottom part stiffens in a relaxed shape without the glass to hold it open, so that it then binds on the glass when the window goes down. When I ran my finger down the track with a rag and some cleaner, it was MUCH tighter in this section below where the glass is in the up position. There might be a chemical that would soften the plastic and make it more pliable again, but I'm just going to replace them and see how much softer and more pliable the new ones are. (Hopefully they won't be ten year old stock.) I do think that things like WD-40 probably would contribute to the aging and stiffening of the plastic and would avoid it.
I almost forgot to mention the switches. As mentioned earlier here, they arc and get burned and that causes them to become high resistance and reduces the voltage to the motor. I have cleaned them up and it helped, but they just got arced again. So this time I am borrowing a trick from the motor control circuits in some high end machinery made by my employer. When the switch contacts to a DC motor open, the magnetic field in the motor windings collapses rapidly causing a very large reverse voltage spike back into the switch contacts. It is this high voltage inductive spike which arcs across the switch contacts and causes them to burn. What you want is to clamp this reverse voltage spike back into the battery. A very nice way to do that is with a four wire component called a "full wave bridge rectifier". This is just four diodes in a single package arranged in a ring with four pins attached to the four junctions between the diodes. These are normally used to convert alternating current (AC) into pulsating direct current (DC). Two pins are marked with wavey line with indicates they are normally connected to the AC line and one pin with plus sign and one pin with a minus sign, indicating they connect to the positive and negative DC. If you the wavy line pins across the motor leads, and attach to the positive lead to 12V and the negative lead to ground, any inductive voltage spike greater than 12V that is generated in the motor will be shunted back through the bridge rectifier to 12V and ground. This should greatly reduce the arcing on the switch contacts. You can get these bridge recitifier parts at your local Radio Shack or other electronics supply. I just added a couple inches of stranded wire to the AC leads and then soldered those to the back of the motor wiring harness connector. Then I attached a longer wire to the positive and negative leads and ran the positive to the 12V lead on the window switch, and the negative to a ring terminal lug and put it under a motor mount screw. When there is 12V attached to the motor in either polarity to run the motor either up or down, the bridge rectifier does nothing, but when you then open the switch, if a spike more than the battery voltage plus a diode drop of 0.7V is generated, it will be clamped to the battery, protecting the switch contacts.
In summary:
1) Clean up the switch contacts
2) Add a clamping rectifier to the motor
3) Clean up the motor commutator
4) Clean out the old stiff grease from all the bearing surfaces and pivot of the regulator assembly and regrease it,
5) Replace the window channel extrusion.
That's my plan, I will report back when I've got a couple done and let you know how it turns out.
I will try to post some pictures of the process too if that is helpful to anyone.
Cheers!
I have been having problems with the power windows on my '91 for years, and it has gradually gotten worse and worse. At first I was able to just lubricate the channels, then I tried several different substances for lubrication, but I may have caused more long term harm with that. I am not a chemist or plastics guy, but work with some folks who are, and I am told that things like WD-40 can actually make the pastics and rubber materials stiff and brittle. I am going to get some advice from them, but I suspect that the recommendation to use silicone spray, or maybe some silicone grease, is probably the best advice for lubricating the tracks.
Finally I decided I needed some more drastic treatment.
Here's a pretty good photo-tutorial about getting into the door panel. It isn't much help about the motors and regulator though.
Toyota FJ80 Land Cruiser Rear Door Window Regulator Repair | Pacific Northwest Backroad Adventures
Just like this thread, the bar that mounts on the bottom of the window came off when I was trying to crank my window down. On disassembly of the door and window mechanism I found several things. First, the bar that attaches to the bottom of the window is just a steel u channel that fits tightly over a rubber gasket that grabs the window glass by friction. It seems that some of the silicone spray I had sprayed into the channel probably caused this friction strip to come loose. That combined with a tight binding window channel caused the window lifter bracket to pull off the glass on the way down. Then the bracket falls off of the window regulator roller and you hear the metal bracket go clunk into the bottom of the door.
I talked with a parts person at the local Toyota parts counter and was told that they use one of the black non-hardening thread sealer pastes like Permatex #2 to coat the bottom edge of the glass before putting the rubber strip on so that it won't so easily slip off. They put it together and then run the window up to the top of the track to jam it on tight and leave it overnight before running it down. If you have ever used this stuff, you know that it is real sticky, and sounds like a good solution, but it can be cleaned off and removed later if you want to replace the glass or something.
I took the motor and regulator out and tested it, and found that it wouldn't run when tied directly to a 12v battery with no other load on it. So I removed the cover from the motor with two screws, and examined the brushes and armature. The carbon block brushes seemed fine, they had plenty of travel left. They look like they could be replaced if they were too worn, but as old as my rig is, it might be unusual for the brushes to wear that much. I did notice that the copper commutator strips on the armature were kind of black and that there might be some carbon build-up between the plates. This can seriously weaken the power of an electric motor. I took some 600 grit wet-or-dry sand paper and polished the commutator till the plates were bright copper, then I used a brass brush to brush out the slots between the copper plates and used some compressed air to clean them up. After that, I blew out the motor cover and reassembled the motor. After that treatment, the motor ran quite well.
Next I noticed that the window regulator pivot arm and slide bearings were binding a bit, not real badly, but I figured any extra drag on the mechanism is a bad thing, so I cleaned the pivot and bearings with some paint thinner to get all the old dirty and stiff grease washed out, then I re-greased the mechanism thoroughly with white lithium grease spray. After reassembling the motor to the regulator, and using a 12V battery to run it again, I found that it ran back and forth several times quite smoothly. There is a coil "watch" spring which gives the window a bit of extra lift, so the motor runs a bit slower against the spring, but it still seems to run pretty well now even in the down position.
Next I took the black plastic extrusion window track out of the window channel to try to decide whether it needed replacing or not. I took some paint thinner on a rag and scrubbed out the grime and accumulated deposits from the bottom of this plastic channel and was kind of shocked how dirty it was. I suspect that with a good cleaning and treatment of silicone, the window would probably run a lot better, but I think I am going to order a full set of tracks from CruiserDan anyway. The plastic seems to have stiffened with age, and I noticed that about the bottom third of the channel seemed tighter than the top Then I realized that the window glass is normally in the up position so as the plastic channel extrusion gets stiff with age, the top part stiffens with the glass holding the channel open, but the bottom part stiffens in a relaxed shape without the glass to hold it open, so that it then binds on the glass when the window goes down. When I ran my finger down the track with a rag and some cleaner, it was MUCH tighter in this section below where the glass is in the up position. There might be a chemical that would soften the plastic and make it more pliable again, but I'm just going to replace them and see how much softer and more pliable the new ones are. (Hopefully they won't be ten year old stock.) I do think that things like WD-40 probably would contribute to the aging and stiffening of the plastic and would avoid it.
I almost forgot to mention the switches. As mentioned earlier here, they arc and get burned and that causes them to become high resistance and reduces the voltage to the motor. I have cleaned them up and it helped, but they just got arced again. So this time I am borrowing a trick from the motor control circuits in some high end machinery made by my employer. When the switch contacts to a DC motor open, the magnetic field in the motor windings collapses rapidly causing a very large reverse voltage spike back into the switch contacts. It is this high voltage inductive spike which arcs across the switch contacts and causes them to burn. What you want is to clamp this reverse voltage spike back into the battery. A very nice way to do that is with a four wire component called a "full wave bridge rectifier". This is just four diodes in a single package arranged in a ring with four pins attached to the four junctions between the diodes. These are normally used to convert alternating current (AC) into pulsating direct current (DC). Two pins are marked with wavey line with indicates they are normally connected to the AC line and one pin with plus sign and one pin with a minus sign, indicating they connect to the positive and negative DC. If you the wavy line pins across the motor leads, and attach to the positive lead to 12V and the negative lead to ground, any inductive voltage spike greater than 12V that is generated in the motor will be shunted back through the bridge rectifier to 12V and ground. This should greatly reduce the arcing on the switch contacts. You can get these bridge recitifier parts at your local Radio Shack or other electronics supply. I just added a couple inches of stranded wire to the AC leads and then soldered those to the back of the motor wiring harness connector. Then I attached a longer wire to the positive and negative leads and ran the positive to the 12V lead on the window switch, and the negative to a ring terminal lug and put it under a motor mount screw. When there is 12V attached to the motor in either polarity to run the motor either up or down, the bridge rectifier does nothing, but when you then open the switch, if a spike more than the battery voltage plus a diode drop of 0.7V is generated, it will be clamped to the battery, protecting the switch contacts.
In summary:
1) Clean up the switch contacts
2) Add a clamping rectifier to the motor
3) Clean up the motor commutator
4) Clean out the old stiff grease from all the bearing surfaces and pivot of the regulator assembly and regrease it,
5) Replace the window channel extrusion.
That's my plan, I will report back when I've got a couple done and let you know how it turns out.
I will try to post some pictures of the process too if that is helpful to anyone.
Cheers!
Last edited:
