Front pinion bearing replacement.

[Mattyboy]

I have looked thru the FSM and can't find ant procedure on how to replace seals and bearings. Can someone point me to a spot where this info can be found. I have a vibration that is loosening a few of the nuts on the dif cover and causing a leak. I would like to replace the bearings in the dif, just not sure how . I have no slop in the driveshaft on the front, but have not removed it to see if the pinion flange has slop.

Thanks Matt.

 

[Overland Tailor]

Why not tighten bolts to torque spec, properly drain and fill differential (See what comes out in the oil) and see if the leak stops? Also, I think finding the source of vibration is important.. Was it always there, or did you do some modification like a lift that has caused it to start?

Don't throw good time and money at this without making sure you have a problem in the differential.

Good luck -


J

 

[BILT4ME]

If you're not sure how to replace the bearings in the front diff, then you probably shouldn;t be doing it. This requires setting up the gears in the diff because the bearings changed. Do a search here for Zuk. he's THE MAN when it comes to Toyota diff's.

First, you need to make sure your U-Joints are in good shape and lubed. Also the shaft splines as well as the correct phasing of the DS. Tighten your housing bolts to spec, then work on the DS. The pinion is usually the LAST thing to dig into if all else fails.

 

[Mattyboy]

I have not done anything but drive the truck. I will pull the Driveshaft and test drive it and see if the noise goes away.

 

[landtank]

Ummm...there is no diff cover on the front.

 

[Mattyboy]

@landtank. I think I meant front carrier? Anyways I have some bad juju going on there. I had a 12 day 1500 mile vacation planned for next week. Don't have time or cash to throw at this without being certain what's going on . Most likely sending it up my local 4x4 shop$$$$$$&&&

 

[dugsgms]

Replacing the diff bearings in non-locked 80 series is about as easy as it gets but you will need(or have access to) a few tools to do it right. If you don't have a in./lb. beam or dial type torque wrench, a press and a dial indicator it may be more cost effective to have it done for you.

That being said, like others have said, do a bit more diagnosis before assuming you need new diff bearings. If you do decide to tear into the diff the forum can definitely help you out enough to get you through it.

 

[toyotaboy80]

If you're not sure how to replace the bearings in the front diff, then you probably shouldn;t be doing it.

...If you're not sure how to do something, then you should probably ask some questions, maybe read an article/book or 10 on it, figure out how its done, and assess whether you have the aptitude/patience to do it. How would anyone ever learn if they just say I don't know how to do something I probably shouldn't do it. lol

The procedure is quite simple. It is just necessary to have the right tools.

Gear Install tools Toyota < Tools
cryo 488 elocker < Write up of an install
Gear Install Harrop < list of installs available to read about

I wouldn't suspect diff unless you had gear whine/noise... especially whine/noise that could be played like a fiddle when getting on/off the throttle. Vibration I would suspect driveshaft or wheel bearing.

 

[Rwhat]

The right tools is expensive to setup your diff. Granted there are guys who do it. Anyone can theoretically setup a diff, doing it the right way is another story.

ARB Locker $1100
Gears $230
Master install kit $190
Tools $500

Big investment that can be ruined easily. Look at Zuks sight. A lot of his work is fixing other shops or people's mistakes.
Nothing wrong with DIY, but trying to be a cheap ass doesn't pay off sometimes.

 

[toyotaboy80]

The right tools is expensive to setup your diff. Granted there are guys who do it. Anyone can theoretically setup a diff, doing it the right way is another story.

ARB Locker $1100
Gears $230
Master install kit $190
Tools $500

Big investment that can be ruined easily. Look at Zuks sight. A lot of his work is fixing other shops or people's mistakes.
Nothing wrong with DIY, but trying to be a cheap ass doesn't pay off sometimes.

Spending $500 on tools to DIY doesn't really suggest cheap ass. You're not saving any money on the first diff built. Probably saving on the second diff, but, the tools required aren't 1-2 time use and/or diff repair specific. They can be used for a lot of technical DIY work. Aptitude/patience is a key element in setting up a diff. I can throw any diff together in 30 minutes... is it right? Probably not. I can spend 5 hours and get get a good pattern. Is it right? Depends. Does it have proper pinion bearing pre-load, carrier bearing pre-load, and did I apply proper methods while obtaining the paint reading? If so, its probably set up as good as it gets. If not... then I may as well of just run the 30 minute diff. On the rare chance, it could be bang on on the first set up and out the door. I've seen it happen on Zuk's builds... first pinion shim he ran was mint... continued on with assembly.

My theory is with s%*@ gear set ups from shops is they get a finicky set of gears, start losing money on the deal because it takes so many tear downs and reassembles to change shims out and reset back lash/aren't consistent enough in their methods to see a .002" shim difference for a reading they just kick it out the door first sign of good paint even if it's not right. The main thing I see with Zuk's set ups is he'll try .002" on either side of a GOOD paint reading just to see if it's better. He'll spend the time he needs to in order to get the paint right. He won't just kick it out the door because it's taking longer than 2 hours or what ever book time is in a perfect world and isn't making money on the deal. In fact, he probably is making money on the deal even when it takes him 5 hours... and that's because he has no overhead.

 

[Rwhat]

I'm a cheap ass and have everything to setup my gears except the clam shell. I decided to have George do mine. Pulled my diffs and made the drive. Well worth it.

If it was gears for a mini truck and would see only trails I would probably do it myself. Maybe.

 

[toyotaboy80]

Peace of mind... fair enough. But it isnt rocket science. If its set up right, spin it anyway you like.

Though wouldnt a trail only low range locked rock crawling diff have more of a need for proper set up than a highway diff? If she's loose and not printing right then its going to apply weird and inconsistent leverages on the ring gear and possibly go bang.

 

[Rwhat]

Peace of mind... fair enough. But it isnt rocket science. If its set up right, spin it anyway you like.

Though wouldnt a trail only low range locked rock crawling diff have more of a need for proper set up than a highway diff? If she's loose and not printing right then its going to apply weird and inconsistent leverages on the ring gear and possibly go bang.

Don't matter to me. Rather have trail queen it break on the trail then have a DD camping rigs diff explode in the middle of Death Valley. Most new members here can barely do a tune up.

I turned wrenches for a living before. A lot of people here are a bit inexperienced especially the new members. So I'm just giving my opinion on it. A proper set up diff is a proper set up diff. Spin it anyway you like too.

 

[bugsnbikes]

vibrations commonly can cause the pinion seal to leak a bit. Solve the vibes and change the seal. seal swap takes 20min. - vibration issue should be solved first and can take some time.

? - is there a seeping right under the pinion- or noticeable wetness on the control arms (from spraying fluid)?
? recently lifted over 2"?
? if you lifted and didnt rotate the pinion angle - this would be a good place to start.

also- you can pull the shaft- undo lockring- and tighten the pinion nut 1mm to take up any minor bearing wear as bearings have typically worn in some over time.

lifting a rig and not correcting angles/vibes doesnt mean your bearings are shot. Id start with addressing the only "known" issues.....vibrations and leaks. Bearings are pure speculation at this point........

 

[Mattyboy]

No new mods since I bought the truck. It whines like a SOB when under load and on the pedal. I am going to take it to the local 4x4 shop and bend over and hope they go easy on me. best case scenario front axle needs rebuilding (seals and Bearings) and the dif needs to come apart to take a look at whats going on. I have greased the u joints and checked for slop and did not see, or feel anything. It actually seemed tight, but i was in park, so that might have something to do with it.

 

[Tools R Us]

No new mods since I bought the truck. It whines like a SOB when under load and on the pedal. I am going to take it to the local 4x4 shop and bend over and hope they go easy on me. best case scenario front axle needs rebuilding (seals and Bearings) and the dif needs to come apart to take a look at whats going on. I have greased the u joints and checked for slop and did not see, or feel anything. It actually seemed tight, but i was in park, so that might have something to do with it.

For a proper check, need slack in the drive train, wont have it with park holding the rig in place. Set the e-brake, chock the tires, shift the transfer to N, then check for play. It will have rotational play, shouldn't have any in/out or side play. Have you changed the gear oil? What is on the magnet can give a clue to diff health, a little on it is normal, a caterpillar of debris, big chunks, etc, indicate trouble.

When simply changing the pinion bearings, don't need to resetup the gears. Check the ring backlash, remove the carrier, press out the pinion, replace the bearings and crush sleeve using the same shim(s), new seal, set the bearing preload. Install the carrier, set bearing preload and backlash to what it was, good to go.

Does the local shop have 80 series experience, have seen very experienced jeep/chevy type techs screw up Toyota axles.

 

[Mattyboy]

They are a Land rover shop , but they seem to work on all rigs. I live in VT so my choices are limited. They have a rep as the best around. I am on vacation next week so i will dig in a bit deeper then. always seems like when I start a project at 7pm in the gravel with kids running around

 

[BILT4ME]

...If you're not sure how to do something, then you should probably ask some questions, maybe read an article/book or 10 on it, figure out how its done, and assess whether you have the aptitude/patience to do it. How would anyone ever learn if they just say I don't know how to do something I probably shouldn't do it. lol

The procedure is quite simple. It is just necessary to have the right tools.

Gear Install tools Toyota < Tools
cryo 488 elocker < Write up of an install
Gear Install Harrop < list of installs available to read about

I wouldn't suspect diff unless you had gear whine/noise... especially whine/noise that could be played like a fiddle when getting on/off the throttle. Vibration I would suspect driveshaft or wheel bearing.

I'm simply reading what the OP stated. If he is unsure what to call something and thinks that just pulling the carrier and swapping bearings is like changing the wheel bearings, then he is terribly mistaken.

Can it be done? Yes. BTDT. I started out ignorant, then graduated to slightly smarter, then to stupid, then to wise.

He has a family and needs something reliable. Did YOU get your first R&P done correctly the FIRST time? Odds are, no. What I'm getting at is ignorance is no excuse to just go buy tools and jump into something you're unprepared for.

I've done enough diffs to know it is NOT my forte' and I have the tools. I just don't have the patience or the time. I can do engines, wheel bearings, cooling systems, and DS in my sleep, but I am smart enough to pay someone else to do my diffs.

If the OP does not even know the other issues that it COULD be, in a proper diagnosis, then he SHOULDN'T be trying to rebuild a diff, because even if you give him the tools, can he PROPERLY interpret a GOOD paint? Or is it good enough? Does he know what the toe of a ring gear is? Where is the heel?

Ignorance and stupidity are two very different things.
Ignorance is that you don't know and have not been shown how. It's OK to be ignorant.
Stupidity means that you have been shown and still choose to move forward in a manner that you don't fully understand how or why or it creates a direct risk for you or someone else. You can't fix stupid.
I'm much wiser to know my limits.

 

[Rwhat]

And here we go.

Rear Differential Carnage

 

[toyotaboy80]

I'm simply reading what the OP stated. If he is unsure what to call something and thinks that just pulling the carrier and swapping bearings is like changing the wheel bearings, then he is terribly mistaken.

Can it be done? Yes. BTDT. I started out ignorant, then graduated to slightly smarter, then to stupid, then to wise.

He has a family and needs something reliable. Did YOU get your first R&P done correctly the FIRST time? Odds are, no. What I'm getting at is ignorance is no excuse to just go buy tools and jump into something you're unprepared for.

I've done enough diffs to know it is NOT my forte' and I have the tools. I just don't have the patience or the time. I can do engines, wheel bearings, cooling systems, and DS in my sleep, but I am smart enough to pay someone else to do my diffs.

If the OP does not even know the other issues that it COULD be, in a proper diagnosis, then he SHOULDN'T be trying to rebuild a diff, because even if you give him the tools, can he PROPERLY interpret a GOOD paint? Or is it good enough? Does he know what the toe of a ring gear is? Where is the heel?

Ignorance and stupidity are two very different things.
Ignorance is that you don't know and have not been shown how. It's OK to be ignorant.
Stupidity means that you have been shown and still choose to move forward in a manner that you don't fully understand how or why or it creates a direct risk for you or someone else. You can't fix stupid.
I'm much wiser to know my limits.

If you're asking me, then odds are that I will get my first R&P set up correctly, because according to your definition I am not ignorant, nor stupid, but I am wise enough to broaden my limits to the point of having enough knowledge, and mechanical aptitude, to do it correctly. Had I calculated my time spent at my hourly rate researching diff building and asking qualified mechanics the whys and whats of a diff building... I doubt I'll break even on even my 2nd build. I might get a case of beer out of one I build for a buddy one day. What I will get is taking pride in my work and a sense of accomplishment.

Catch a fish for a man and he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish and he eats for life.